Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[Tak7]

Not at all. There are lots of things to criticize, this isn’t one of them.
I get the sense that you hate everything they do.

What does an organization that flip-flops on their approaches regularly, look like to you if it isn't the Leafs?

Because the Leafs have shown a track record of really not having a long-term vision in place beyond "pay the big guys big money" and figure it out year upon year.

Process before results. This team doesn't have proper process and the results continue to show

 

[Sypher04]

People can have opinions all they like about Nylander’s ability to do the job, but at the end of the day this organization has never really given him a true look at being an NHL center since the 22 games he played at the end of the year before Matthews and Marner joined the team, so it’s all speculation.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I would say the MLSE board. They make all the final decisions. But they were gunning after Stamkos, struck out and then wanted Tavares.

Yeah hindsight is a bitch, it was a bad signing. But I won’t pretend like I wasn’t happy as hell. Felt nice in the moment to land a big guy.

MLSE board sounds reasonable.

Personally I was against if from the start, but I know I was very much in the minority. The Oracle's curse.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Because I watched the game. Did you watch the game? If you did you might have some serious apprehension too.

Who the f*** knows about Keefe. Maybe his line stacking was all he did at times, but you would think all these years Toronto could have ripped through the playoffs and win cups due to no other team matching us at center.

Like why was Kampf, Accari, Kerfoot, Spezza out C when we could have had Nylander this whole time?

I certainly watched the game, but I don't recall Nylander being the only reason we lost.

Those other guys played 3C. If you're overpaying JT that much, he's going to be the 2C. Would you play your second best scorer and second or third best overall on the third line, when you could have him on the second line supporting JT?

But as you say, "Who the f*** knows about Keefe".

 

[notDatsyuk]

What does an organization that flip-flops on their approaches regularly, look like to you if it isn't the Leafs?

Because the Leafs have shown a track record of really not having a long-term vision in place beyond "pay the big guys big money" and figure it out year upon year.

Process before results. This team doesn't have proper process and the results continue to show

If you're talking about the organization as a whole over the last ten years or so, there's an argument. Specifically, Dubas was all over the map. Since Dubas got himself fired, Tre has been following a very different vision, but he has been consistent.

 

[Martin Skoula]

What does an organization that flip-flops on their approaches regularly, look like to you if it isn't the Leafs?

Because the Leafs have shown a track record of really not having a long-term vision in place beyond "pay the big guys big money" and figure it out year upon year.

Process before results. This team doesn't have proper process and the results continue to show

I don’t get how the flip flopping isn’t a bigger talking point.

Kyle Dubas on the Toronto Maple Leafs’ team identity: “I would say it is still in formation… We are aiming towards is a team built on speed, talent, and creativity but also tenaciousness when we don’t have the puck”

Biggest acquisitions are: Tavares, Muzzin, Foligno, O’Rielly, McCabe, Brodie. Where is the speed talent and creativity in that list? We got slower every single year trying to bring in defensively minded veteran gritgrinders. Barrie was the closest thing to speed and skill he got and the coach didn’t let him do the only thing he’s elite at in skating with the puck.

We were advertised a high intensity speed game and ended up with a team built to appease talking heads on Sportsnet saying they needed veteran grinders that know how to win. I don’t mind the physical grinding game but if you’re going to do it you need to commit to it instead of having a foot on two trains moving in opposite directions and half assing both approaches. We ended up playing a slow east west possession game that didn’t leverage our speed when we had it and neutered the gritty players we got when we lost the speed.

 

[The Best Leafs Everr]

You guys don’t need to worry, I have already started working on the expansion of Robidas Island. It will be finished by the summer and then we can send 5-6 more players this year.

 

[conFABulator]

You guys don’t need to worry, I have already started working on the expansion of Robidas Island. It will be finished by the summer and then we can send 5-6 more players this year.

That's how Vegas won a cup. Tampa too. Why not us?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Other than the constant ...flip-flops, change in directions, and indecision lol.

I get the sense any form of criticism of the hockey team makes you uncomfortable.

Nothing has flip flopped, not a damn thing.

Now you can certainly argue it should have by now but the strategy, the plan, the direction, whatever word you want to use has not changed because we are going int year 9 and the core of this team has not changed at all.

For better or worse, and that is up for debate but for better or worse NOTHING has flip flopped.

 

[Dekes For Days]

People can have opinions all they like about Nylander’s ability to do the job, but at the end of the day this organization has never really given him a true look at being an NHL center since the 22 games he played at the end of the year before Matthews and Marner joined the team, so it’s all speculation.

His player attributes and playstyle both align better with a winger, and every time he has tried center, he's been bad. There is zero reason to think that he will ever be a center, and people need to move on to actual options.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Rielly - Tanev
McCabe - ?
Benoit - OEL/Hakanpaa
Liljegren

That 2nd pair isn't filled.

They don't have a viable 3C candidate internally.

The 2nd pair is filled though, you just chose to ignore it.

You already who it is too you just pretend you don't.

Read what you wrote and figure it out because it's literally right in front of your face.

 

[Nineteen67]

The two biggest mistakes by the previous GM have NMCs that expire next year.


I guess Lou didn't realized Dubas was going to screw up everything by signing Tavares.

At least he admits his biggest mistake in his book on winning!!!!!

 

[ACC1224]

Dubas admits what may of us had already known. I wonder if Brock will add this book to it's Sports Management curriculum?

In a new book by Craig Custance, an ESPN reporter now working for The Athletic, the entire Tavares pursuit by Dubas and his 10 years in Toronto are part of The Franchise: The Business Of Building Winning Teams.
Dubas has no regrets about the Tavares deal, with a year still to run on it, that’s caused inherent headaches for replacement Brad Treliving, but there are aspects of it he’d want back.



“The biggest mistake I think I’ve made in my whole time here has been not taking care of the three incumbent contracts,” Dubas told Custance. “(William) Nylander was up, (Mitch) Marner and (Auston) Matthews could have been done on July 1 extensions.”

 

[GoonieFace]

At least he admits his biggest mistake in his book on winning!!!!!

He could write a novel longer than War and Peace on just his mistakes

 

[Racer88]

At least he admits his biggest mistake in his book on winning!!!!!

Going to be a long book

 

[The Masters]

Imagine buying and reading a Dubas book named The Franchise: The Business Of Building Winning Teams

Lmao.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Yes, you would only count the value of the raise in this math. We are talking about incremental available cap space on top of what is already being spent.

And yes, the Tavares money is gone with raises to those players and about $6M to spend. Move out Kampf and Jarnkrok and you have about $9M to spend.

So you are assuming that whoever takes them will not want to send players or a bad contract (I'm thinking Kampf specifically) back?

 

[Captain Crunch]

I was listening to some Steely Dan today, had me thinking about the Leafs.

Run it back, Leafs, do it again, wheel turnin' 'round and 'round
Run it back, Leafs, do it again

If Marner is back, I believe it's because nothing could be done, either because of Marner or there were no acceptable deals. I also believe if he's back, then they are prepared to let him walk after the season, UNLESS they get to the finals and Marner is a big reason why.

 

[Apex Predator]

Did Dubas write a book on his time in Toronto?

 

[Captain Crunch]

But he has to be available and productive from 25/26 through 26/27 seasons. If he’s not then it becomes a terrible signing.

As is the case with just about every player at his age, load management is going to be crucial, especially towards the end of the season.

 

[Bomber0104]

Did Dubas write a book on his time in Toronto?

Sounds like he is getting his own chapter in a book about building winning hockey teams.

Which should immediately raise eyebrows since he came nowhere close to icing a winning team here.

 

[Sypher04]

His player attributes and playstyle both align better with a winger, and every time he has tried center, he's been bad. There is zero reason to think that he will ever be a center, and people need to move on to actual options.

I’m not advocating for putting him at center, but 1) he has not been bad every time he’s been put there 2) he’s never been given any runway in the role 3) he’s only ever been put there due to injury 4) he’s a much better player today than the last time they “tried” him there.

He will never be a center because clearly the orgnization doesn’t see him as one and that’s fine; I don’t even necessarily disagree. That however doesn’t meant he’s not capable of doing the job.

I personally am of the mindset don’t fix what isn’t broken. Nylander among the best wingers in the NHL. Find another solution for center.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Right. So, Knies and McCabe will not be taking the entire $11M from the Tavares contract ending.

Woll - $3M
Knies - $2.5M
McCabe - $2M
#2 C - $2.5M + cap increase of $4 or $5M

My comment was questioning the poster saying that it would all go to Knies and McCabe.

It's actually pretty good. If we like the team and where it is going we can keep it together.

Also, we need some spots to be filled by players on ELCs if Minten, Cowan, Grebenkin, Tverberg, or Hirvonen mean we can walk away from Kampf and Jarnkrok that adds another $3M to spend. If Niemela becomes a player we can save a couple million on Liljegren or McCabe.

It would be great to see him sign for that, but I think he'll be looking at $4 million as a bare minimum, especially with how much they just gave Liljegren.

 

[Apex Predator]

Sounds like he is getting his own chapter in a book about building winning hockey teams.

Which should immediately raise eyebrows since he came nowhere close to icing a winning team here.

I need to hire this guy as a salesman on my team. I’ll give credit where credit is due he might suck at being a GM in hockey but he sure knows how to talk to get his way.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Both Marner and Nylander have not been good enough in the playoffs and have proven it multiple times. The odds of them sacrificing enough to get to the eastern final are very slim and we dont know if Berube can change their mindset. Marner will get paid regardless of playoff performance, and he’ll be fired up in the shinny seasons.

Yes, I agree with you, and looking back at the core's playoff performances over the years it shows how their scoring drops off in games 5-7. And yet Shanahan has continually brought them all back AND given them raises!
Yes he will get paid because there almost always is a GM/owner who will pay that player. Unless we win the Cup, which isn't very likely, I just hope it's not us!