Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[The Masters]

The organization is ruled more by risk aversion than a “money first” mentality. Time and again they’ve demonstrated a willingness to spend, but a general paralysis in terms of being proactive in management to disturb something they think is working.. but isn’t.

those two are tied together. risk aversion impacts $$$. they want to stay in the playoffs and guarantee gate $

 

[Captain Crunch]

Agreed, just like if we had let Nylander walk this past year, we would have had almost $21.5m to go shopping on July 1, instead of $10m. You could have had your choice of two of the top 5 UFA dman available. Instead we had to overpay two dmen with lots of miles on them.

I agree about the overpay, but Tre did the next best thing by stretching out the term to bring the AAV down. It is a big risk, but by resigning Matthews, they are in win now mode while he's here. There is still a ways to go to see this team as a legitimate Cup contender in this window. If they do not win the Cup in this time, I dread what the next few years will look like once the dismantling starts!

 

[Nineteen67]

Personally I feel that Tavares should retain the C for this season, not because I think he's the best candidate, but because I feel it do more harm than good for the team. After the season, provided McCabe continues his strong play, I would prefer he wore the C next.


Like I said, only if Marner also has a strong playoff. I disagree with what you're saying about Nylander. It's not that he has been great in the playoffs, but of the four I would say that he has been the best so far, at least in the last few playoffs.

Best of a bad bunch but we watched Nylander against McDonagh try to finesse a stick check in the dying minutes of a game 7, rather than making the easy play and taking a hit. That sacrifice is easy and should be second nature to a winner, but they do not have that skill that is required if you want to win. And we see shift after shift in the playoffs, from all of them.

 

[The Management]

Pretty "whelmed" with this free agency. There's still time left in the summer to make trades, but I'm not sure that happens. We don't have a first round pick coming up, the significant pieces on our roster have trade protection, and it's hard to see an upgrade of significance from trading David Kampf or some other depth piece. Liljegren, maybe, but that leaves you short on the right side of your defense pairings yet again.

Wish we could pull of something like Edmonton did with Matias Ekholm. That's the kind of trade that could really change the fate of a team. Find an underrated defenseman somewhere saturated with them, and instantly improve your blueline.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Best of a bad bunch but we watched Nylander against McDonagh try to finesse a stick check in the dying minutes of a game 7, rather than making the easy play and taking a hit. That sacrifice is easy and should be second nature to a winner, but they do not have that skill that is required if you want to win. And we see shift after shift in the playoffs, from all of them.

I agree 100% on three of them, but I am beginning to see Matthews doing exactly what is needed!

 

[Kurtz]

Agreed, just like if we had let Nylander walk this past year, we would have had almost $21.5m to go shopping on July 1, instead of $10m. You could have had your choice of two of the top 5 UFA dman available. Instead we had to overpay two dmen with lots of miles on them.

We did get a top 5 guy in Tanev, and at a good aav can hit. You label him as overpaid. And we came in second on Zadorov and Roy.

That's the trouble with your premise - you assume that if we had more money we could sign anyone we want in UFA. That's obviously not the case, as we've seen. Only way to secure that would be to significantly overpay the guys we go after, but that's obviously counter-productive and people would be complaining about the overpayments.

 

[ToneDog]

We did get a top 5 guy in Tanev, and at a good aav can hit. You label him as overpaid. And we came in second on Zadorov and Roy.

That's the trouble with your premise - you assume that if we had more money we could sign anyone we want in UFA. That's obviously not the case, as we've seen. Only way to secure that would be to significantly overpay the guys we go after, but that's obviously counter-productive and people would be complaining about the overpayments.

Agreed there is no guarantee you get who you want unless you overpay that is why I said 2 of the 5 best. We clearly over paid Tanev in order to reduce the AAV and he was all but guaranteed to sign here. Pretty sure we could have persuaded one of Roy, Sjkei, Pesce, Zadorov, Walker to sign here with the extra money. I am OK having to pay more to get one dman but definitely not in favour of significantly overpaying. You can always offer an extra year like they did to Reaves but not for an over the hill player.

We just gave OLE 4 years and Tanev 6. We could easily give Roy an extra year if it was the difference between getting him and not having to pivot to OEL.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Horrible first year for Treliving followed by a horrible offseason so far.

Fewer wins, less points, and out a round earlier. There are no mental gymnastics, voodoo stats, or baseless intangible hocus pocus that can change those facts. If they take another step backwards again this year that would mean missing the playoffs.

The worst showing yet since Matthews was drafted.

I think it's easier for desperate fans to defend Treliving than accept he's a worse GM than Dubas. The fact Dubas was so terrible they're probably still shell shocked. Accepting the reality of the current situation is extremely disheartening.

We all know it won't be long until Treliving adds something else dumb onto the rapidly growing list of dumb things he's done since getting hired.

It's just been one bad move after another. This offseason has been a comedy of errors. From signing Tanev, to overpaying on all those raises, to handing out NTC's to everyone on the team.

I can't wait to see how badly he screws up the rest of the year.

In the eight seasons Matthews has played here, there have been four with a higher win % and three with a lower one, so "the worst showing yet since Matthews was drafted" is inaccurate.

Considering the mess Tre was given, with quick fixes running away, a bad goalie and defence situation, and stripped cupboards, it's actually impressive he managed as well as he did last year.

This year he's already improved both the D and G, along with coaching. Admittedly he's still handicapped until Dubas' two biggest mistakes have their current contracts end next year, but there are already positive signs.

 

[Tak7]

Pretty "whelmed" with this free agency. There's still time left in the summer to make trades, but I'm not sure that happens. We don't have a first round pick coming up, the significant pieces on our roster have trade protection, and it's hard to see an upgrade of significance from trading David Kampf or some other depth piece. Liljegren, maybe, but that leaves you short on the right side of your defense pairings yet again.

Wish we could pull of something like Edmonton did with Matias Ekholm. That's the kind of trade that could really change the fate of a team. Find an underrated defenseman somewhere saturated with them, and instantly improve your blueline.

Need to start using whelmed in my everyday vocabulary. It's perfect.

Agree with everything you're saying.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

In the eight seasons Matthews has played here, there have been four with a higher win % and three with a lower one, so "the worst showing yet since Matthews was drafted" is inaccurate.

Considering the mess Tre was given, with quick fixes running away, a bad goalie and defence situation, and stripped cupboards, it's actually impressive he managed as well as he did last year.

This year he's already improved both the D and G, along with coaching. Admittedly he's still handicapped until Dubas' two biggest mistakes have their current contracts end next year, but there are already positive signs.

Read the sentence before that one in my original comment again it might make more sense this time.

I usually read a comment two or three times before replying and I still miss the correct context all the time.

It happens...

 

[Gallagbi]

those two are tied together. risk aversion impacts $$$. they want to stay in the playoffs and guarantee gate $

A second round is twice as valuable as first round, arguably more. Third round 3x and fourth round 4-5x.

The amount of money they leave on the table losing early, or outright missing the playoffs, is incredible.

 

[Kurtz]

Agreed there is no guarantee you get who you want unless you overpay that is why I said 2 of the 5 best. We clearly over paid Tanev in order to reduce the AAV and he was all but guaranteed to sign here. Pretty sure we could have persuaded one of Roy, Sjkei, Pesce, Zadorov, Walker to sign here with the extra money. I am OK having to pay more to get one dman but definitely not in favour of significantly overpaying. You can always offer an extra year like they did to Reaves but not for an over the hill player.

We just gave OLE 4 years and Tanev 6. We could easily give Roy an extra year if it was the difference between getting him and not having to pivot to OEL.

If Tre has shown us one thing is that he will not hesitate to give extra years (ie Reeves, Tanev...OEL). I bet he did offer Roy that extra year but Roy was likely looking for more annual money instead.

Or maybe he just preferred to stay in America at the end of the day, the same way that Tanev preferred to come back to Canada.

 

[4thline]

Granting that it's not a 100% finished product, assuming Dewar is back, and assuming that either Marner didn't waive or that was a "boardroom" level decision-

Much much better than last season, I'd say a solid B+. There's definitely some term risk, but the guys he added made a lot of sense from a roster and gap balance perspective.

 

[notDatsyuk]

If Marner has a monster season and continues it in the playoffs, I would be okay with resigning him and trading Nylander. However, all these NMCs are proving to make any trades extremely difficult.

That's a couple of pretty big "if's".

The biggest difference will be that at that time, Nylander will be signed for 7 more years at $11.5 with an NMC, while Marner will be a UFA looking for $12.5 (or more, if he has a "monster season" and playoffs).

Which will be easier to let go?

If Nylander successfully transitions to 2C then having one winger at $12.5 may not be terrible, but having two wingers making $24 while not having a 2C should be unthinkable.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Read the sentence before that one in my original comment again it might make more sense this time.

I usually read a comment two or three times before replying and I still miss the correct context all the time.

It happens...

I've read it a couple more times. Last year was not the worst in wins, points, or playoff rounds won, so I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Tak7]

Granting that it's not a 100% finished product, assuming Dewar is back, and assuming that either Marner didn't waive or that was a "boardroom" level decision-

Much much better than last season, I'd say a solid B+. There's definitely some term risk, but the guys he added made a lot of sense from a roster and gap balance perspective.

Definitely not a finished product, but once Dewar is signed they have no cap space & very little flexibility to actually make significant moves.

Which is wild for a team that still has so many holes - 2LW, 3C, 2nd D-pairing, etc.

 

[4thline]

Definitely not a finished product, but once Dewar is signed they have no cap space & very little flexibility to actually make significant moves.

Which is wild for a team that still has so many holes - 2LW, 3C, 2nd D-pairing, etc.

I consider 2nd pairing D filled, and both 2LW and 3C have viable internal candidates.

 

[Captain Crunch]

That's a couple of pretty big "if's".

The biggest difference will be that at that time, Nylander will be signed for 7 more years at $11.5 with an NMC, while Marner will be a UFA looking for $12.5 (or more, if he has a "monster season" and playoffs).

Which will be easier to let go?

If Nylander successfully transitions to 2C then having one winger at $12.5 may not be terrible, but having two wingers making $24 while not having a 2C should be unthinkable.

I totally agree. Unfortunately, I think the ship has sailed regarding moving Nylander to C. Therefore I think the best avenue to follow is to let Marner walk (we should have known that with his full NMC, as well as what he's going to want on his next contract, it is basically impossible to trade him without having to take back a contract that we do not want).

 

[notDatsyuk]

I totally agree. Unfortunately, I think the ship has sailed regarding moving Nylander to C. Therefore I think the best avenue to follow is to let Marner walk (we should have known that with his full NMC, as well as what he's going to want on his next contract, it is basically impossible to trade him without having to take back a contract that we do not want).

Whether "the ship has sailed regarding moving Nylander to C" or not, and I don't think it has, I agree that letting Marner walk may be the best option.

 

[Captain34]

Interesting observation by Mirtle and Siegel on their Leafs Report podcast yesterday. Apparently they have been getting feedback from other teams and agents that the Leafs are hard to deal with because they are very "indecisive".

 

[The Masters]

Interesting observation by Mirtle and Siegel on their Leafs Report podcast yesterday. Apparently they have been getting feedback from other teams and agents that the Leafs are hard to deal with because they are very "indecisive".

indecisive aka SCARED

Pelley is going to punt both Shanny and Tre next off-season IMO

 

[keonsbitterness]

Interesting observation by Mirtle and Siegel on their Leafs Report podcast yesterday. Apparently they have been getting feedback from other teams and agents that the Leafs are hard to deal with because they are very "indecisive".

I can believe that. Suspicion has long been held that nothing big can happen without Shanny and the Board on board.

Pelley is probably off to the side selling jerseys.

 

[Roo]

Interesting observation by Mirtle and Siegel on their Leafs Report podcast yesterday. Apparently they have been getting feedback from other teams and agents that the Leafs are hard to deal with because they are very "indecisive".

Not sure I buy it. They seemed pretty decisive replacing the coach, signing players on D1 of UFA, even completing deadline deals. When there is nothing to report you got to come up with something I guess.

 

[ACC1224]

Interesting observation by Mirtle and Siegel on their Leafs Report podcast yesterday. Apparently they have been getting feedback from other teams and agents that the Leafs are hard to deal with because they are very "indecisive".

Sounds like B.S.

 

[Madap]

Interesting observation by Mirtle and Siegel on their Leafs Report podcast yesterday. Apparently they have been getting feedback from other teams and agents that the Leafs are hard to deal with because they are very "indecisive".

Disappointing to hear but not surprising in the slightest.

They’ve been scared in the past to make any changes with the core, and are only confident in making minor moves. Trading a core player could easily turn out horribly so I understand why they are scared, but I figured that would change after yet again another pathetic performance by our stars.

Really just wish someone in our organization had some balls. Looks like we’ll be stuck in mediocrity for a while longer.