Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[thusk]

I'm not worried about falling out of a playoff spot, I'm pretty sure we'll start playing better at some point and cruise to the playoffs. I'm just not happy that this team still lacks the leadership and character required to go deep in the playoffs. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.


D group he left vs the D group he started with is one thing, but it's not the full picture. For one thing, it leaves Muzzin completely out of the picture who was a massive asset.

Under Dubas, we had a team that was always among the top teams during the regular season, one of the top 3-5 favorites to win the cup most years and the fact that we kept losing in the last game of the 1st round is one the players, and most of the blame goes to the core guys, specifically M&M who always fail to rise to the occasion. Twice we lost as massive favorites, not sure how Dubas is supposed to somehow know that these guys will run the marathon like contenders and then stop running when they're 100 yards from the finish line.

He bet on the core, the core failed, 99.9% of GM's would have done the same. Dubas made some mistakes but was a lot better than people give him credit for.

even with Muzzin, leafs D was looking average

in reality the leafs best D group last 5 years was looking like the tampa worst D group last 5, its simple... added the fact muzzin had been injured 3 of last 4 playoff with no enough depht good D to replace his impact...exactly like tampa last season when cernak and hedman goes down... after we try to figure out why leafs always lost in playoff

 

[Gary Nylund]

The terrible luck was that the team was garbage. I don’t mean to fully absolve dubey. The Tavares injury doesn’t excuse other seasons or even really the Habs series. It was a brutal break though, team was at its peak.

Or maybe the peak was last season? In any case, that was a brutal loss and yes 100% we should have taken the Habs despite injuries. JT went out, then we won 3 in a row, no excuse for losing the next 3.

The Hab series may have been the most disappointed I've ever been as a fan.

For me it was the lowest of lows as well. But then came the FLA series, that was maybe even worse because I thought that was the best roster we'd iced in over 50 years and had a real chance at going all the way.

even with Muzzin, leafs D was looking average

in reality the leafs best D group last 5 years was looking like the tampa worst D group last 5, its simple... added the fact muzzin had been injured 3 of last 4 playoff with no enough depht good D to replace his impact...exactly like tampa last season when cernak and hedman goes down... after we try to figure out why leafs always lost in playoff

I thought our D with Muzzin and Brodie was a lot better than average. JMHO.

 

[thusk]

Or maybe the peak was last season? In any case, that was a brutal loss and yes 100% we should have taken the Habs despite injuries. JT went out, then we won 3 in a row, no excuse for losing the next 3.

For me it was the lowest of lows as well. But then came the FLA series, that was maybe even worse because I thought that was the best roster we'd iced in over 50 years and had a real chance at going all the way.

I thought our D with Muzzin and Brodie was a lot better than average. JMHO.

was a good top 3 but the rest was weak... so when someone of top 3 get injured... leafs had no answer

its the same than alst season with tampa outside of top 3, it wqs weak so when cernak and hedman get hurted, whats happenened... they was unable to protect the front of their net and leafs abuse of it with screen, shot, deflection, rebound... ots how leafs scored big part of their goal... and despite the fact leafs struggling in transition, they won the battle in front of the net, thats why at the end they won...

 

[Gary Nylund]

was a good top 3 but the rest was weak... so when someone of top 3 get injured... leafs had no answer

its the same than alst season with tampa outside of top 3, it wqs weak so when cernak and hedman get hurted, whats happenened... they was unable to protect the front of their net and leafs abuse of it with screen, shot, deflection, rebound... ots how leafs scored big part of their goal... and despite the fact leafs struggling in transition, they won the battle in front of the net, thats why at the end they won...

I'm not saying our D was elite or anything, just that for a few years there, is was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than it was when he took over and the biggest factors were him bringing in Muzzin, Brodie and Giordano later was a fantastic add as well.

Our D has regularly been very good. The stats nerd can quote you the numbers, overall goals against numbers have been consistently good despite our goaltending being quite bad at times. IMO the reason we lose in the playoffs is that we choke at the finish line, simple as that and when that happens year after year after year, it speaks to a lack of character and leadership. If M&M ever start playing like they have a pair (especially Marner) and are proud of it, we have a shot but whether that ever happens or not is the question and we've already wasted so many years. We may also never have as good a supporting cast as we did last year.

 

[thusk]

I'm not saying our D was elite or anything, just that for a few years there, is was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than it was when he took over and the biggest factors were him bringing in Muzzin, Brodie and Giordano later was a fantastic add as well.

Our D has regularly been very good. The stats nerd can quote you the numbers, overall goals against numbers have been consistently good despite our goaltending being quite bad at times. IMO the reason we lose in the playoffs is that we choke at the finish line, simple as that and when that happens year after year after year, it speaks to a lack of character and leadership. If M&M ever start playing like they have a pair (especially Marner) and are proud of it, we have a shot but whether that ever happens or not is the question and we've already wasted so many years. We may also never have as good a supporting cast as we did last year.

and the season your talking about is the only season where leafs was looking like a contender...exactly because leafs added gio in case of injury...

overal goal against doesn't necessairly show quality of d. A d can impact you in different way, like lack of transition can make will hurt you by exemple impacting your foward by getting less scoring chance, breakaway, 2v1 3v2 because your D are unable to make those play who will create those kind of situation ... so bad D can impact matthews game, can impact marner game, can impact jt game, can impact nylander game.

number of 5v5 goal of marner AND nylander last 4 playoff? 4 goal each and its not a surprise... when both player need to come back in defensive end, carry the puck from defensive side to offensive side unstead of getting a good quick pass right in their stick and caught opp def out of position... sure it will be harder to score but everything starting with a bad D.

people are just so focusing on defensive side of a D but a bad D can hurt you as much for goal for

 

[Dekes For Days]

It’s just something I’ve been dealing with a little bit. It fired up on me in the wrong time during a game, but I was able to get to feeling better and back out on the ice, so I’m encouraged by that,” the forward said, adding he hopes to play this week.

And how exactly did you get from this statement to a conspiracy about his injury happening before the trade and everybody involved lying about it?

 

[Gary Nylund]

and the season your talking about is the only season where leafs was looking like a contender...exactly because leafs added gio in case of injury...

overal goal against doesn't necessairly show quality of d. A d can impact you in different way, like lack of transition can make will hurt you by exemple impacting your foward by getting less scoring chance, breakaway, 2v1 3v2 because your D are unable to make those play who will create those kind of situation ... so bad D can impact matthews game, can impact marner game, can impact jt game, can impact nylander game.

number of goal of marner AND nylander last 4 season? 4 goal each and its not a surprise... when both player need to come back in defensive end, carry the puck from defensive side to offensive side unstead of getting a good quick pass right in their stick and caught opp def out of position... sure it will be harder to score but everything starting with a bad D.

people are just so focusing on defensive side of a D but a bad D can hurt you as much for goal for

Not sure what season you're thinking of, I thought our D was much improved and was quite good for several years there, and I thought we looked very much like a contender last season, even without Muzzin.

Overall goals against doesn't necessarily show quality of D - agree 100%, defence is a team game and forwards doing their job is a huge part of it, and of course goaltending as well.

Anyway, I think Dubas did an excellent job rebuilding our D, and overall he'd be getting a lot more credit for the work he did here if our "leaders" hadn't kept choking year after year. But whatever, if you don't agree that's fine, and I do hate the Marner contract which IMO was his biggest mistake and might be the reason Nylander hasn't signed yet, but that's another story. Dubas was OK, so far Treliving has been no better than OK, I expect what we'll see him do is the same as Dubas - keep the core (hopefully Nylander will stay) and trade away futures trying to win now. Only one pick in the first two rounds coming in the next two years, he'll probably trade that away (or a top prospect, maybe both) so I fear the cupboards will be bare and the party will be all but over in the not too distant future. Maybe a miracle will happen and we'll this spring, I'm not too optimistic though.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

And how exactly did you get from this statement to a conspiracy about his injury happening before the trade and everybody involved lying about it?

Dude...you must be kidding me. We showed you proof he was injured before he was traded by being on the injury report...we showed you a direct quote from him saying he has been dealing with it for a little bit and that it flared up...you STILL won't admit that some funky business went on with the CBJ's. It's ok...we are not blaming your friend/cousin/brother Dubas...we are actually saying that CBJ is the skeevy party here. You still are adamant for some reason or another.

 

[Apex Predator]

 

[notbias]

This thread about Treliving has turned back into a bash Dubas thread because people can't defend Brad's track record... it is telling.

Call Dubas whatever you want, he has definitely failed here, but not one person has called Treliving a GM or even a better GM than Dubas and proven it... that is telling and quite concerning if you are Leafs fan (I know a lot of you aren't)

 

[GoonieFace]

This thread about Treliving has turned back into a bash Dubas thread because people can't defend Brad's track record... it is telling.

Call Dubas whatever you want, he has definitely failed here, but not one person has called Treliving a GM or even a better GM than Dubas and proven it... that is telling and quite concerning if you are Leafs fan (I know a lot of you aren't)

What does his previous situation in Calgary have to do with him being the Leafs GM now? Two completely different teams and situations

 

[notbias]

What does his previous situation in Calgary have to do with him being the Leafs GM now? Two completely different teams and situations

I'd say how well someone does at the same job in another organization is telling of how they will do here...

But maybe I am wrong... no clue why people even wanted Trotz, that was a different team, no indication he'd be a good coach here.

 

[Lemontree]

I'd say how well someone does at the same job in another organization is telling of how they will do here...

But maybe I am wrong... no clue why people even wanted Trotz, that was a different team, no indication he'd be a good coach here.

Obviously it's much better to have no track record at all except for being the GM of a 4th place team in your division in the OHL.

 

[GoonieFace]

I'd say how well someone does at the same job in another organization is telling of how they will do here...

But maybe I am wrong... no clue why people even wanted Trotz, that was a different team, no indication he'd be a good coach here.

But it’s not. Calgary is basically a barren waste land in the NHL. Players don’t want to go there or be there, and you typically have to overpay free agents. Toronto does not have that problem, or at least they shouldn’t if they have someone competent doing the job. The jury is still out on Tre

 

[Peasy]

I'd say how well someone does at the same job in another organization is telling of how they will do here...

But maybe I am wrong... no clue why people even wanted Trotz, that was a different team, no indication he'd be a good coach here.

Look at what Dale Tallon built in Chicago, and then what he did in Florida.
Look at what Yzerman built in Tampa, and now what he has done in Detroit.

There are so many circumstances that change from year to year, organization to organization, owner to owner.

Everyone is so hung up on what he did in the past that theyre not even allowing him a fair amount of time before bashing him.

 

[notbias]

But it’s not. Calgary is basically a barren waste land in the NHL. Players don’t want to go there or be there, and you typically have to overpay free agents. Toronto does not have that problem, or at least they shouldn’t if they have someone competent doing the job. The jury is still out on Tre

Canada is on a lot of player's lists of places they don't want to go... I am sure Toronto is above Calgary... but Calgary overpays by millions per year, so it isn't like they are just overpaying to get the talent.

Look at what Dale Tallon built in Chicago, and then what he did in Florida.
Look at what Yzerman built in Tampa, and now what he has done in Detroit.

There are so many circumstances that change from year to year, organization to organization, owner to owner.

Everyone is so hung up on what he did in the past that theyre not even allowing him a fair amount of time before bashing him.

Just how he left Calgary is absolutely terrifying, and they had the same or less success than Toronto for how he left it.

You can also get an idea of his philosophy, which you hope he grows out of as he learns, but in Calgary, his idea was if he could punch the other team enough they'd win, he didn't learn with his first free agent signing, but hopefully, he learns a little each time he makes a mistake and it sticks eventually.

 

[ACC1224]

But it’s not. Calgary is basically a barren waste land in the NHL. Players don’t want to go there or be there, and you typically have to overpay free agents. Toronto does not have that problem, or at least they shouldn’t if they have someone competent doing the job. The jury is still out on Tre

It's amazing that the simplest of things need constant explaining.

 

[notbias]

It's amazing that the simplest of things need constant explaining. It would be so much better if people would just stop replying to those two, it's pretty obvious what their game is.

Just close this thread down, yet another one ruined.

So we have a disadvantage to other teams in hot weather states, or even the US in general?

Why does this never get brought up about the disadvantage that Dubas had?

It is weird how many people are coming to the defense of Treliving... he got outperformed badly by Winnepeg, they are the least desirable place. Is Cheveldayoff that good? Is Yzerman super overrated because players love to play in Florida?

You can always ignore the thread by the way, it is very simple, complaining about a conversation isn't going to help much.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You are not sure why it is relevant to acknowledge Colorado spending draft picks to acquire players that contributed to their Stanley Cup victory?

Well that's changing the argument, and basically makes the sole determinant did you win a cup. Whereas the previous argument seemed to be that a GM of a top tier team trading assets for players that no longer remain with the team 1-5 years later makes them bad. Seems like you found out that this type of thing isn't that abnormal, and now suddenly context is important? What was the point of even looking at Colorado in the first place, if you're just going to hand wave away anything that you're blaming other GMs/teams in the same position for.

I cherry picked certain criteria?

Yes. You picked out only the trades involving the Leaf's own 1st and 2nd round picks. And that's within the already extreme cherry picking of using player assets remaining from the trade additions of a consistently top tier team made 1-5 years ago that involved picks to evaluate a GM.

If we drafted prospects with those picks, and then traded those prospects, well then it's all fine, right? No impact to the team there!
I guess we should have traded Knies instead of a 2nd last deadline. Instantly better GM!
If we traded every single 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th round pick every year? Who cares!
We should have re-signed Foligno! That would have made Dubas better! Does it matter who is lost to fit re-signings? No! Does it matter what they're paid and if they're worth it? No!

Anything else matter? Signings? Drafting? Other trades? Other decisions? Does context matter now? No? Just these very specific trades and the assets remaining from them? Cool.

Don't forget to blame Dubas for Muzzin having his career cut short, and Lou signing Marleau, and Treliving not re-signing anybody he got, to go with worse options, and Treliving trading Lafferty (too bad he apparently got nothing to "show for it"). Anything else we can blame him for? Climate change?

 

[GoonieFace]

So we have a disadvantage to other teams in hot weather states, or even the US in general?

Why does this never get brought up about the disadvantage that Dubas had?

It is weird how many people are coming to the defense of Treliving... he got outperformed badly by Winnepeg, they are the least desirable place. Is Cheveldayoff that good? Is Yzerman super overrated because players love to play in Florida?

You can always ignore the thread by the way, it is very simple, complaining about a conversation isn't going to help much.

The Leafs are one of the most desirable locations in the NHL, not even close to Calgary or Winnipeg.

When you say badly outperformed by Winnipeg, what exactly do you mean? Winnipeg has done nothing of consequence except for one trip to the Conference Finals

Well that's changing the argument, and basically makes the sole determinant did you win a cup. Whereas the previous argument seemed to be that a GM of a top tier team trading assets for players that no longer remain with the team 1-5 years later makes them bad. Seems like you found out that this type of thing isn't that abnormal, and now suddenly context is important? What was the point of even looking at Colorado in the first place, if you're just going to hand wave away anything that you're blaming other GMs/teams in the same position for.

Yes. You picked out only the trades involving the Leaf's own 1st and 2nd round picks. And that's within the already extreme cherry picking of using player assets remaining from the trade additions of a consistently top tier team made 1-5 years ago that involved picks to evaluate a GM.

If we drafted prospects with those picks, and then traded those prospects, well then it's all fine, right? No impact to the team there!
I guess we should have traded Knies instead of a 2nd last deadline. Instantly better GM!
If we traded every single 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th round pick every year? Who cares!
We should have re-signed Foligno! That would have made Dubas better! Does it matter who is lost to fit re-signings? No! Does it matter what they're paid and if they're worth it? No!

Anything else matter? Signings? Drafting? Other trades? Other decisions? Does context matter now? No? Just these very specific trades and the assets remaining from them? Cool.

Don't forget to blame Dubas for Muzzin having his career cut short, and Lou signing Marleau, and Treliving not re-signing anybody he got, to go with worse options, and Treliving trading Lafferty (too bad he apparently got nothing to "show for it"). Anything else we can blame him for? Climate change?

Save some bandwidth for the rest of us

 

[Peasy]

So we have a disadvantage to other teams in hot weather states, or even the US in general?

Why does this never get brought up about the disadvantage that Dubas had?

It is weird how many people are coming to the defense of Treliving... he got outperformed badly by Winnepeg, they are the least desirable place. Is Cheveldayoff that good? Is Yzerman super overrated because players love to play in Florida?

You can always ignore the thread by the way, it is very simple, complaining about a conversation isn't going to help much.

Yes, Yes.

And I don't think people are really defending Treliving, more so just saying let him have a chance to do something of significance and then judge. He hasn't even been the gm for 6 months yet. I was never a fan of the hiring, but the meltdowns people are having from him are a bit much imo.

 

[notbias]

The Leafs are one of the most desirable locations in the NHL, not even close to Calgary or Winnipeg.

When you say badly outperformed by Winnipeg, what exactly do you mean? Winnipeg has done nothing of consequence except for one trip to the Conference Finals

More rounds, constantly better talent, drafting, trading, etc..

I don't even think the more rounds are a big deal because losing is losing, but the team on paper and what is left is so insanely different. Winnipeg has a chance every year, Calgary never had one under Treliving.

Dubois just got a better return than Tkachuk.

Yes, Yes.

And I don't think people are really defending Treliving, more so just saying let him have a chance to do something of significance and then judge. He hasn't even been the gm for 6 months yet. I was never a fan of the hiring, but the meltdowns people are having from him are a bit much imo.

No one is having a meltdown but...

50% of his big signings have been bad, not a great start.

His philosophy probably scares people, and he has been a terrible GM over the years, not confidence-boosting on top of his bad start.

I am assuming the pushback on him has a lot to do with the insane praise I see people giving him for not doing much of anything.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yes, Yes.

And I don't think people are really defending Treliving, more so just saying let him have a chance to do something of significance and then judge. He hasn't even been the gm for 6 months yet. I was never a fan of the hiring, but the meltdowns people are having from him are a bit much imo.

I could be wrong, but listening to Treliving talk tells me he’ll be as bad or worse than Dubas was.

 

[Peasy]

More rounds, constantly better talent, drafting, trading, etc..

I don't even think the more rounds are a big deal because losing is losing, but the team on paper and what is left is so insanely different. Winnipeg has a chance every year, Calgary never had one under Treliving.

Dubois just got a better return than Tkachuk.



No one is having a meltdown but...

50% of his big signings have been bad, not a great start.

His philosophy probably scares people, and he has been a terrible GM over the years, not confidence-boosting on top of his bad start.

I am assuming the pushback on him has a lot to do with the insane praise I see people giving him for not doing much of anything.

Were you this much up in arms when dubas signed Ritchie and Mrazek? (two guys that required us to use assets to get rid of).

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Look at our return as well as factoring in the retention while also pretending Dubas wasn't involved and it will become clear to you .