Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Injury in Winnipeg? He wasn't injured in Winnipeg. He got injured against Montreal, in his 5th game with us, after going PPG and playing well in a top 6 role through the first 4 games. A player like Foligno will always have bumps and bruises, but he has repeatedly stated that he was healthy when he came here, and that he experienced a debilitating injury while with us, unlike anything he's ever experienced, that forced him to change how he played.

For some reason, some people have taken the common occurrence of a pending high value deadline target sitting out the last game before the deadline as proof of some conspiracy that Foligno and everybody involved is lying.

Even with the facts that are provided by @Stephen with this injury report, you still stick to what Foligno says after the season as gospel....I was wrong about the city he got injured in...so let's just throw out someone's arguments...quite the straw you have there man.... So how could I have known he was previously injured without ever seeing any reports? Could it be that I was going off of what Foligno said about his injury being something he was managing already?

 

[Martin Skoula]

It makes me sick to think of how talented a team we had in Dubas' first years here. We had Connor Brown, Hyman, Kadri, Kappy, Trevor Moore etc....and each year we just bled a bit of talent while spending picks to replace them for the playoffs. It really is funny that people keep holding Dubas as this genius when he pissed the whole team away with his constant searching for another ECHL guy like Justin Holl to come to the rescue of his genius title.

You just listed 20mil worth of middle 6ers, no sane team would keep more than 1 or 2 of them max. The only real problem was the trade returns on some of them, if we focused on returns like Kapanen/Sandin it would be more than fine.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

It makes me sick to think of how talented a team we had in Dubas' first years here. We had Connor Brown, Hyman, Kadri, Kappy, Trevor Moore etc....and each year we just bled a bit of talent while spending picks to replace them for the playoffs. It really is funny that people keep holding Dubas as this genius when he pissed the whole team away with his constant searching for another ECHL guy like Justin Holl to come to the rescue of his genius title.

We lost a lot of talent up front for sure but we also improved the Defense. We went from:

Rielly Hainsey
Gardiner Zaitsev
Dermott Polak
Carrick

To

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Holl
Sandin Liljegren
Giordano

Within a few years. That's 2 legit top 4, two way guys coming in. Both Brodie and Muzzin were actually top pair guys, it's just too bad Muzzin's body broke down on him. He was still giving quality minutes up to that point.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Even with the facts that are provided by @Stephen with this injury report, you still stick to what Foligno says after the season as gospel...

I'll certainly stick to listening to what a player repeatedly says about his own injury over listening to people on the internet making assumptions and conspiracy theories based on a vague sentence on capfriendly that simultaneously disproves the alleged claims. Teams didn't use to be so obvious about sitting out players for trade-related reasons, which is likely why that's there, but let's go with it. Did you see it listed as "day-to-day"? Did you also see right above it where it says on April 22nd as he exits quarantine that he's healthy and cleared to play?

So everybody involved said he was good, he wasn't prevented from playing previously, he had a two week quarantine to further heal anything he was dealing with, he passed entry physicals, and looked really good with us until the time when we saw him get injured and he says he got injured, but he was secretly injured the whole time and this supposed "day to day" injury that nobody saw happen is what caused him to sit out and heavily struggle weeks to months later with a debilitating injury, and everybody is lying about it?

That's quite a stretch.

.I was wrong about the city he got injured in...so let's just throw out someone's arguments...

I didn't throw out the claim because you got the city wrong. I threw out the claim because literally everything and everyone, including the person himself, says it's wrong.
Though getting the city wrong should maybe be a sign that you're not remembering that situation the best.
The fact is, the reason that Foligno missed games with us and struggled when he did play after May 3rd is because he sustained an injury while with us, after the trade.

 

[Lemontree]

They traded a 2nd round pick for Grubauer (no longer with the team) and Orpik (no longer with the team).
They traded a 3rd round drafted prospect for Beaudin (no longer with the team).
They traded a 3rd round pick for Brassard (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick for Burakovsky (no longer with the team).
They traded Barrie (50% retained), Kerfoot, and a 6th round pick for Kadri (no longer with the team) and Rosen (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round drafted prospect for Bibeau (no longer with the team).
They traded a 4th round pick for Namestikov (no longer with the team).
They traded Zadorov and a 5th round drafted prospect for Saad (no longer with the team) and Gilbert (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round drafted prospect for Burroughs (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick and a 2nd round pick for Toews (still with the team).
They traded Cole (retained) for Patyren (no longer with the team).
They traded a 6th round pick for Johansson (no longer with the team).
They traded a 4th round pick for Nemeth (no longer with the team).
They traded a 5th round pick for Dubnyk (no longer with the team).
They traded a 5th round drafted prospect for Soderberg (no longer with the team).
They traded Graves for Maltsev (no longer with the team).
They traded a 4th for Macdermid (still with the team).
They traded a 1st round pick, a 3rd round pick, and Timmins for Kuemper (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick an a 2nd round drafted prospect for Manson (still with the team).
They traded Jost (a 10th overall selection of theirs) for Sturm (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick and a 1st round drafted prospect for Lehkonen (still with the team).
They traded a 5th round pick for Cogliano (still with the team).
They traded a 3rd round pick, a 3rd round pick, and a 5th round pick for Georgiev (still with the team).
They traded Hunt for Malgin (no longer with the team).
They traded a 1st round drafted prospect for Nieto (no longer with the team) and Merkley (no longer with the team).
They traded Bowers for Kinkaid (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick for Ellers (no longer with the team).

So that's a 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th, Zadorov, Barrie, Graves, Cole, Timmins, Kerfoot, Bowers, and Hunt for players no longer with them.
And a 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th for players still with the team.

And now should we count players that were lost to sign those players that remained with the team? Or how about players that were added without any asset loss? Other teams? No? We're just going to take whatever tiny trade snapshot is most convenient for painting a misleading picture, instead of properly evaluating the entirety of their performance? Okay then. Don't forget to blame Dubas for Treliving trading away or not re-signing any of the guys he brought in last year that were better than the guys Treliving chose.

How many of these were contributors to their STANLEY CUP championship? Also, I find it funny that you are using 3rd round picks and after. The list I posted was 1st and 2nd round picks only (Leafs) that Dubas traded.

 

[hotpaws]

How was the Kessel trade botched?

Look at our return as well as factoring in the retention while also pretending Dubas wasn't involved and it will become clear to you .

 

[Dekes For Days]

How many of these were contributors to their STANLEY CUP championship?

They had a few there for the cup, out of the countless acquisitions, but I'm not really sure why that's relevant. We could do the same thing with teams that didn't win cups.

Also, I find it funny that you are using 3rd round picks and after. The list I posted was 1st and 2nd round picks only (Leafs) that Dubas traded.

Yes, I'm aware that you cherry picked very specific criteria while simultaneously cherry picking one specific kind of roster move to craft the picture you wanted.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I'll certainly stick to listening to what a player repeatedly says about his own injury over listening to people on the internet making assumptions and conspiracy theories based on a vague sentence on capfriendly that simultaneously disproves the alleged claims. Teams didn't use to be so obvious about sitting out players for trade-related reasons, which is likely why that's there, but let's go with it. Did you see it listed as "day-to-day"? Did you also see right above it where it says on April 22nd as he exits quarantine that he's healthy and cleared to play?

So everybody involved said he was good, he wasn't prevented from playing previously, he had a two week quarantine to further heal anything he was dealing with, he passed entry physicals, and looked really good with us until the time when we saw him get injured and he says he got injured, but he was secretly injured the whole time and this supposed "day to day" injury that nobody saw happen is what caused him to sit out and heavily struggle weeks to months later with a debilitating injury, and everybody is lying about it?

That's quite a stretch.

I didn't throw out the claim because you got the city wrong. I threw out the claim because literally everything and everyone, including the person himself, says it's wrong.
Though getting the city wrong should maybe be a sign that you're not remembering that situation the best.
The fact is, the reason that Foligno missed games with us and struggled when he did play after May 3rd is because he sustained an injury while with us, after the trade.

Ok...you forced me to dig around and find the article and the quote.

May 2021: Nick Foligno shares deep thoughts on the Maple Leafs’ Stanley Cup playoff chances

Whatever comes next, Foligno said it was simply good to get back on the ice after he aggravated an upper-body injury against the Montreal Canadiens a week ago. “It’s just something I’ve been dealing with a little bit. It fired up on me in the wrong time during a game, but I was able to get to feeling better and back out on the ice, so I’m encouraged by that,” the forward said, adding he hopes to play this week.

It was from the Winnipeg free press...which is why I misremembered the injury being in Winnipeg.

You just listed 20mil worth of middle 6ers, no sane team would keep more than 1 or 2 of them max. The only real problem was the trade returns on some of them, if we focused on returns like Kapanen/Sandin it would be more than fine.

Agreed. I remember the whole "We will have to trade some young players but we will be restocking the cupboards with younger talent" mantra that was supposed to happen. Instead we went for mostly over the hill guys who had passed their best before date and here we are.

 

[Lemontree]

They had a few there for the cup, out of the countless acquisitions, but I'm not really sure why that's relevant. We could do the same thing with teams that didn't win cups.

Yes, I'm aware that you cherry picked very specific criteria while simultaneously cherry picking one specific kind of roster move to craft the picture you wanted.

You are not sure why it is relevant to acknowledge Colorado spending draft picks to acquire players that contributed to their Stanley Cup victory? if you think about it long enough......its just might come to you.

I cherry picked certain criteria? I listed the 1st and 2nd round (Maple Leafs own) draft picks traded since 2019 and the assets from those trades that are still on the roster. Its a pathetic list of assets and that includes upcoming 2024, 2025, 2026 2nd round picks and 2025 1st round draft pick out the door. Why don't you make some effort and show the good trades that Dubas made over his 5 years as the Leafs GM.

 

[GoonieFace]

They traded a 2nd round pick for Grubauer (no longer with the team) and Orpik (no longer with the team).
They traded a 3rd round drafted prospect for Beaudin (no longer with the team).
They traded a 3rd round pick for Brassard (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick for Burakovsky (no longer with the team).
They traded Barrie (50% retained), Kerfoot, and a 6th round pick for Kadri (no longer with the team) and Rosen (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round drafted prospect for Bibeau (no longer with the team).
They traded a 4th round pick for Namestikov (no longer with the team).
They traded Zadorov and a 5th round drafted prospect for Saad (no longer with the team) and Gilbert (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round drafted prospect for Burroughs (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick and a 2nd round pick for Toews (still with the team).
They traded Cole (retained) for Patyren (no longer with the team).
They traded a 6th round pick for Johansson (no longer with the team).
They traded a 4th round pick for Nemeth (no longer with the team).
They traded a 5th round pick for Dubnyk (no longer with the team).
They traded a 5th round drafted prospect for Soderberg (no longer with the team).
They traded Graves for Maltsev (no longer with the team).
They traded a 4th for Macdermid (still with the team).
They traded a 1st round pick, a 3rd round pick, and Timmins for Kuemper (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick an a 2nd round drafted prospect for Manson (still with the team).
They traded Jost (a 10th overall selection of theirs) for Sturm (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick and a 1st round drafted prospect for Lehkonen (still with the team).
They traded a 5th round pick for Cogliano (still with the team).
They traded a 3rd round pick, a 3rd round pick, and a 5th round pick for Georgiev (still with the team).
They traded Hunt for Malgin (no longer with the team).
They traded a 1st round drafted prospect for Nieto (no longer with the team) and Merkley (no longer with the team).
They traded Bowers for Kinkaid (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick for Ellers (no longer with the team).

So that's a 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th, Zadorov, Barrie, Graves, Cole, Timmins, Kerfoot, Bowers, and Hunt for players no longer with them.
And a 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th for players still with the team.

And now should we count players that were lost to sign those players that remained with the team? Or how about players that were added without any asset loss? Other teams? No? We're just going to take whatever tiny trade snapshot is most convenient for painting a misleading picture, instead of properly evaluating the entirety of their performance? Okay then. Don't forget to blame Dubas for Treliving trading away or not re-signing any of the guys he brought in last year that were better than the guys Treliving chose.

Your dedication is unmatched

 

[Peasy]

Your dedication is unmatched

Its honestly insane lol. He just ignores the context of people's posts and just creates something completely new with his responses.

It doesnt matter what happens, Dubas will always be an amazing gm in his eyes, there is no changing that. He probably thinks Dubas would have won 3 cups in the same time with the Avs if he took that job. Its actually insane hes trying to "prove" that somehow the Avs asset management has been somehow worse than the leafs.

 

[GoonieFace]

Its honestly insane lol. He just ignores the context of people's posts and just creates something completely new with his responses.

It doesnt matter what happens, Dubas will always be an amazing gm in his eyes, there is no changing that. He probably thinks Dubas would have won 3 cups in the same time with the Avs if he took that job. Its actually insane hes trying to "prove" that somehow the Avs asset management has been somehow worse than the leafs.

It was definitely a lot of work just to be wrong

 

[ACC1224]

It was definitely a lot of work just to be wrong

All for attention.

 

[thusk]

We lost a lot of talent up front for sure but we also improved the Defense. We went from:

Rielly Hainsey
Gardiner Zaitsev
Dermott Polak
Carrick

To

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Holl
Sandin Liljegren
Giordano

Within a few years. That's 2 legit top 4, two way guys coming in. Both Brodie and Muzzin were actually top pair guys, it's just too bad Muzzin's body broke down on him. He was still giving quality minutes up to that point.

it was the d as his best during dubas era... but D when dubas started vs leafs D when he left...

rielly-Brodie
mccabe-liljegren
gio-Timmins

D grpup he left was not better than the D he started with.

3X 1st
kadri
durzi
3X 2nd
2X 3rd

in big part of asset dubas used in the past 5 season to upgrade leafs D and having the same quality on d.

when he step in as new Gm, his #1 goal as new gm was to rebuild leafs D to have a contender D... 5 years later when Dubas left, what are the #1 goal of Treliving? rebuild the leafs D to be enough good for contender... leafs are at the same exact spot than they was 5 year ago ... and after people come and blame treliving to brokd leafs D after 1 off-season with a pretty trash market?

57%( brodie, mccabe, gio, timmins) of top 7 in D was dubas choice, 14% was treliving choice (klinberg in a 1 year deal).. but its should be treliving mistake if actual leafs D look pretty bad?

 

[Martin Skoula]

Ok...you forced me to dig around and find the article and the quote.

May 2021: Nick Foligno shares deep thoughts on the Maple Leafs’ Stanley Cup playoff chances

Whatever comes next, Foligno said it was simply good to get back on the ice after he aggravated an upper-body injury against the Montreal Canadiens a week ago. “It’s just something I’ve been dealing with a little bit. It fired up on me in the wrong time during a game, but I was able to get to feeling better and back out on the ice, so I’m encouraged by that,” the forward said, adding he hopes to play this week.

It was from the Winnipeg free press...which is why I misremembered the injury being in Winnipeg.


Agreed. I remember the whole "We will have to trade some young players but we will be restocking the cupboards with younger talent" mantra that was supposed to happen. Instead we went for mostly over the hill guys who had passed their best before date and here we are.

I mean Kapanen for 15 should have resulted in young talent, no one could have predicted how it went. Same with Sandin for Cowan + Sandin replacement. Moore was in a weird situation where he wouldn’t have gotten the minutes to get his value to a 1st here, Kadri trade would have been ok if we had an in-house 3C replacement and traded Kerfoot coming off a 50 ES point season. Hyman’s the only real full on loss and even then he’d probably still be here if he didn’t demand the term he did, the money wasn’t an obstacle as much as locking in a grinder with two bad knees for 7 years is.

Still though, for all the picks we “wasted” we have a better prospect pool than our competition in the Atlantic and more 1st round picks the next 3 years.

IMO the biggest hit to our asset pool for this window was keeping JVR/Bozak and co, moving 2nds for 4C rentals, and missing on the majority of our 2016-2017 drafts. Those are the assets that would be prime-aged RFA priced contributors right now, the Foligno picks would likely still be cooking.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Won Five (5) games in regulation, 2 of 3 skills competitions and 3 of 5, 3 on 3 games of shinny.

The good thing is that they seem to be building some chemistry. If that Sweden trip takes a toll, we could fall out of a playoff spot in the next few weeks.

I'm not worried about falling out of a playoff spot, I'm pretty sure we'll start playing better at some point and cruise to the playoffs. I'm just not happy that this team still lacks the leadership and character required to go deep in the playoffs. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

it was the d as his best during dubas era... but D when dubas started vs leafs D when he left...

rielly-Brodie
mccabe-liljegren
gio-Timmins

D grpup he left was not better than the D he started with.

3X 1st
kadri
durzi
3X 2nd
2X 3rd

in big part of asset dubas used in the past 5 season to upgrade leafs D and having the same quality on d.

when he step in as new Gm, his #1 goal as new gm was to rebuild leafs D to have a contender D... 5 years later when Dubas left, what are the #1 goal of Treliving? rebuild the leafs D to be enough good for contender... leafs are at the same exact spot than they was 5 year ago ... and after people come and blame treliving to brokd leafs D after 1 off-season with a pretty trash market?

57%( brodie, mccabe, gio, timmins) of top 7 in D was dubas choice, 14% was treliving choice (klinberg in a 1 year deal).. but its should be treliving mistake if actual leafs D look pretty bad?

D group he left vs the D group he started with is one thing, but it's not the full picture. For one thing, it leaves Muzzin completely out of the picture who was a massive asset.

Under Dubas, we had a team that was always among the top teams during the regular season, one of the top 3-5 favorites to win the cup most years and the fact that we kept losing in the last game of the 1st round is one the players, and most of the blame goes to the core guys, specifically M&M who always fail to rise to the occasion. Twice we lost as massive favorites, not sure how Dubas is supposed to somehow know that these guys will run the marathon like contenders and then stop running when they're 100 yards from the finish line.

He bet on the core, the core failed, 99.9% of GM's would have done the same. Dubas made some mistakes but was a lot better than people give him credit for.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

I'm not worried about falling out of a playoff spot, I'm pretty sure we'll start playing better at some point and cruise to the playoffs. I'm just not happy that this team still lacks the leadership and character required to go deep in the playoffs. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.


D group he left vs the D group he started with is one thing, but it's not the full picture. For one thing, it leaves Muzzin completely out of the picture who was a massive asset.

Under Dubas, we had a team that was always among the top teams during the regular season, one of the top 3-5 favorites to win the cup most years and the fact that we kept losing in the last game of the 1st round is one the players, and most of the blame goes to the core guys, specifically M&M who always fail to rise to the occasion. Twice we lost as massive favorites, not sure how Dubas is supposed to somehow know that these guys will run the marathon like contenders and then stop running when they're 100 yards from the finish line.

He bet on the core, the core failed, 99.9% of GM's would have done the same. Dubas made some mistakes but was a lot better than people give him credit for.

The Tavares and Muzzin injuries against the Habs really hurt the team as well. I think Dubas had some terrible luck while he was here no question.

 

[hotpaws]

better to pay Willie want he wants then to break him up for lesser parts since your not only losing a uber skill forward but also eliminating your entire 2nd line

if people believe JT can anchor and drive an effective 2nd line they're setting themselves to up be massively disappointed

The Tavares and Muzzin injuries against the Habs really hurt the team as well. I think Dubas had some terrible luck while he was here no question.

what was our terrible luck against the Jackets ?

 

[Guided by Veseys]

better to pay Willie want he wants then to break him up for lesser parts since your not only losing a uber skill forward but also eliminating your entire 2nd line

if people believe JT can anchor and drive an effective 2nd line they're setting themselves to up be massively disappointed


what was our terrible luck against the Jackets ?

The terrible luck was that the team was garbage. I don’t mean to fully absolve dubey. The Tavares injury doesn’t excuse other seasons or even really the Habs series. It was a brutal break though, team was at its peak.

 

[ACC1224]

The terrible luck was that the team was garbage. I don’t mean to fully absolve dubey. The Tavares injury doesn’t excuse other seasons or even really the Habs series. It was a brutal break though, team was at its peak.

The Hab series may have been the most disappointed I've ever been as a fan.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

The Hab series may have been the most disappointed I've ever been as a fan.

Likewise.

 

[Apex Predator]

The Hab series may have been the most disappointed I've ever been as a fan.

Even with the injuries they should have beat that team. I don’t want to hear the “they got goalie’d” excuse because they seem to do it back up goalies all the time.

 

[hotpaws]

I'm not worried about falling out of a playoff spot, I'm pretty sure we'll start playing better at some point and cruise to the playoffs. I'm just not happy that this team still lacks the leadership and character required to go deep in the playoffs. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.


D group he left vs the D group he started with is one thing, but it's not the full picture. For one thing, it leaves Muzzin completely out of the picture who was a massive asset.

Under Dubas, we had a team that was always among the top teams during the regular season, one of the top 3-5 favorites to win the cup most years and the fact that we kept losing in the last game of the 1st round is one the players, and most of the blame goes to the core guys, specifically M&M who always fail to rise to the occasion. Twice we lost as massive favorites, not sure how Dubas is supposed to somehow know that these guys will run the marathon like contenders and then stop running when they're 100 yards from the finish line.

He bet on the core, the core failed, 99.9% of GM's would have done the same. Dubas made some mistakes but was a lot better than people give him credit for.

The team he took over came off a 105pt season and was on the upswing with their elite kids just going into there 3rd full season , why would we give credit to any GM for taking over a group of players that were going to continue to improve to become a top regular season team ?

and Dubas kept saying he believes in the core because he couldn't move the one player that shouldn't have been signed as well of shifting failure away from himself to those players

 

[hotpaws]

The terrible luck was that the team was garbage. I don’t mean to fully absolve dubey. The Tavares injury doesn’t excuse other seasons or even really the Habs series. It was a brutal break though, team was at its peak.

the team was at it's peak because it was playing in a weak Canadian division and should have cake walked to the conference finals at the very least

as far JT goes , he's been sub par in the playoffs his entire career outside of one rd with Islanders

 

[IPS]

I feel guilty when I spend too much time on HFBoards but the last couple pages made me feel not so about it.