Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[thusk]

Monahan is a serviceable player.

Marleau was a buyout.

In just over a year Treliving brought in this:

Huberdeau
Weeger
Jarnkrok
Toffoli
1x 1st
1x 2nd

this only cost him:

Tkachuk
Monahan
Bennett
2x 1st
1x 2nd
1x 3rd
2x 4th
1x 5th
1x 7th

so he is left with Huberdeau and Weeger... at least one of which is a cap dump...

I'd be far more worried about this kind of damage...

marleau and monahan was exactly the same

monahan had 8 goal 23 pts in 68 in previous season

marleau 10 goal 20 in 58 game, the only difference is the 2 only team marleau was ready to play at this moment was toronto and san jose

both had the pratically the same cap hit...both was seriously struggling for different reason, both cost the same price... just thinking what dubas did was right and what treliving did was wrong when they did the same exact thing, just showing your lack of objevtivity

 

[GoonieFace]

I'm really enjoying how this thread became just a giant circlejerk for people to shit on Dubas in order to avoid judging Treliving's moves. The name of the thread is literally "Brad Treliving is doing a good job"

I can't name names due to a previous ban but:

- A guy who I once had to spend three comments teaching him the basics of arithmetic
- A guy who often claims to have CTE whenever he's proven wrong
- A guy who actively cheers for the Leafs to get bad players to own the "Dubisites"
- A guy who pins Muzzin's injury on Dubas trading for him 3 years earlier
- A bunch of people who are miffed that we have a weak prospect pool given our recent finishes in the regular season.

If we're gonna give Treliving a mulligan then lets. Klingberg looks like he's gonna go on LTIR so that erases 1 bad signing (with respect to Klingberg's health). Reaves can be buried for a $200K cap hit, that mitigates the second awful signing (for three years). So that only leaves David Kampf as the third bad signing to deal with, so lets give him a straight up mulligan for that. Bertuzzi and Domi have shown enough that they can be given a TBD. Since we're giving him a mulligan on all his bad moves the only thing he's done so far is extend Matthews and sign Domi and Bertuzzi to one year deals.

From this point onwards, Treliving has:

- He has 1 full season
- The 2024 Draft which the Leafs have at least one pick in every round except Round 2
- The 2024 Free Agency Period where the Leafs will conservatively have ~$20, million in cap space to spend on the holes.

The cap space: Expected NHL cap jump up $4 million, Brodie Expiring of $5 million. Nylander's expiring 6.9 million, Bertuzzi expiring at $5.5 million, Domi expiring at $3 million. Klingberg expiring at $4.1 million. Muzzin and Murray both expiring and being removed from LTIR. - That's $28 million in cap space.

Some prominent under 30 names in the 2024 Free Agent Class:

Dmen: Brady Skjei, Noah Hanfin, Brett Pesce, Nikita Zadorov, Brandon Montour,

Forwards: Sam Reinhart, Jake Guentzel, Elias Lindholm, Jake DeBrusk, Jack Roslovic,

This is as clean of a slate as a GM can ask for. Nothing from this point on can be handwaved away by saying "BUT KYLE DUBAS!"

Maybe Brad saw that list as well, and say hey, I’m going to sign a bunch of decent fill ins on 1 year deals. I have to sign Nylander, so a good chunk of that space is gone. Need to replace Brodie, Klingberger and Gio, so that’s more cap space. Bert and Domi off the books as well. Need to find a goalie more than likely. That $28 mil is more than poof.

 

[notbias]

marleau and monahan was exactly the same

monahan had 8 goal 23 pts in 68 in previous season

marleau 10 goal 20 in 58 game, the only difference is the 2 only team marleau was ready to play at this moment was toronto and san jose

both had the pratically the same cap hit...both was seriously struggling for different reason, both cost the same price... just thinking what dubas did was right and what treliving did was wrong when they did the same exact thing, just showing your lack of objevtivity

"only difference is this huge difference"

yes, exactly the same...

Marleau was a trade to buyout and was ancient

Monahan was an asset after being traded

Maybe Montreal just has better player evaluation than Treliving and his team or were better at developing players, not sure what the issue was, but Montreal got a first and a player who is doing well now.

 

[ACC1224]

marleau and monahan was exactly the same

monahan had 8 goal 23 pts in 68 in previous season

marleau 10 goal 20 in 58 game, the only difference is the 2 only team marleau was ready to play at this moment was toronto and san jose

both had the pratically the same cap hit...both was seriously struggling for different reason, both cost the same price... just thinking what dubas did was right and what treliving did was wrong when they did the same exact thing, just showing your lack of objevtivity

The whole Marleau debacle could have been avoided if not for cap mismanagement. Poor decisions were made, that’s been proven countless times.
Anyway, he’s Pittsburghs problem now.

 

[Nineteen67]

The whole Marleau debacle could have been avoided if not for cap mismanagement. Poor decisions were made, that’s been proven countless times.
Anyway, he’s Pittsburghs problem now.

Now if they could make Treliving someone else’s problem….

 

[thusk]

"only difference is this huge difference"

yes, exactly the same...

Marleau was a trade to buyout and was ancient

Monahan was an asset after being traded

Maybe Montreal just has better player evaluation than Treliving and his team or were better at developing players, not sure what the issue was, but Montreal got a first and a player who is doing well now.

both was trash and both team just clearing cap space... its the same exact thing...monahan had 23 in 65 and 28 pts in 50 in previous 2 season before the trade... with injury prone, nothing to hope he could bounce back and for result he played only 25 game...

the only difference is montreal keep monahan as cap dump and carolina buy out marleau... both was trash with bad contract. whats the team did after the trade change absolutly nothing, it was both cap dump to clear cap space to dump a player who was not good enough for his salary

 

[notbias]

both was trash and both team just clearing cap space... its the same exact thing...monahan had 23 in 65 and 28 pts in 50 in previous 2 season before the trade... with injury prone, nothing to hope he could bounce back and for result he played only 25 game...

the only difference is montreal keep monahan as cap dump and carolina buy out marleau... both was trash with bad contract. whats the team did after the trade change absolutly nothing, it was both cap dump to clear cap space to dump a player who was not good enough for his salary

If player evaluation/age/draft status/potential are irrelevant, then this post makes sense.

 

[thusk]

If player evaluation/age/draft status/potential are irrelevant, then this post makes sense.

monahan played only 30% of game and cost 6,375 M you was not able to spend anywhere else... who was really right or wrong on evaluation?

 

[notbias]

monahan played only 30% of game and cost 6,375 M you was not able to spend anywhere else... who was really right or wrong on evaluation?

Monahan was talked about like he could get a first at the deadline that year... clearly Montreal saw enough to take on the contract.

Monahan had injury issues, if he can work those out, he is still an asset.

Monahan was 27 I believe and in his 24 year old season put up over PPG, the year after 48 in 70, and then started having injury concerns. The players are not even remotely the same.

The issue with the Marleau contract is you had to find a team willing to buy him out... it likely rules out teams like Arizona, who would take on a cap dump potentially to play but not to be bought out.

Not all owners are willing to take buyouts.

They are really not comparable, but you can carry on.

 

[Peasy]

Monahan was talked about like he could get a first at the deadline that year... clearly Montreal saw enough to take on the contract.

Monahan had injury issues, if he can work those out, he is still an asset.

Monahan was 27 I believe and in his 24 year old season put up over PPG, the year after 48 in 70, and then started having injury concerns. The players are not even remotely the same.

The issue with the Marleau contract is you had to find a team willing to buy him out... it likely rules out teams like Arizona, who would take on a cap dump potentially to play but not to be bought out.

Not all owners are willing to take buyouts.

They are really not comparable, but you can carry on.

Just like how they talk about how they can get a 1st + for Anderson every year?

Just because you see it being mentioned doesnt mean it is anywhere near the truth lmao. No one was going to pony up a 1st for Monahan last year when he still had another year at 6m+ and was still shown to be injury prone.

 

[thusk]

Monahan was talked about like he could get a first at the deadline that year... clearly Montreal saw enough to take on the contract.

Monahan had injury issues, if he can work those out, he is still an asset.

Monahan was 27 I believe and in his 24 year old season put up over PPG, the year after 48 in 70, and then started having injury concerns. The players are not even remotely the same.

The issue with the Marleau contract is you had to find a team willing to buy him out... it likely rules out teams like Arizona, who would take on a cap dump potentially to play but not to be bought out.

Not all owners are willing to take buyouts.

They are really not comparable, but you can carry on.

and what theyve got ? nothing because he an injury prone player and he was " surprisingly " injured again

and why arizona should had more interest to a 6,375M player for a player who played like a 3rd/4th line player than a buyout??? arizona was looking for player on LTIR or player who will have exemple a cap hit of 6M but a salary of 1-2 M, not a 6,375 M cap dump. try again

not all owners are willing to take buy out yes but not all owners arw willing to take cap dump. thats changing absolutly nothing anywhere. its the same exact thing

 

[notbias]

Just like how they talk about how they can get a 1st + for Anderson every year?

Just because you see it being mentioned doesnt mean it is anywhere near the truth lmao. No one was going to pony up a 1st for Monahan last year when he still had another year at 6m+ and was still shown to be injury prone.

He was considered an asset at the deadline by pretty much everyone... but already, a 7th, 4th, 1st, whatever... an asset was dumped for a 1st.

He didn't have another year, now you're just making things up.

 

[Dekes For Days]

How about we compare it to the Avs

They traded a 2nd round pick for Grubauer (no longer with the team) and Orpik (no longer with the team).
They traded a 3rd round drafted prospect for Beaudin (no longer with the team).
They traded a 3rd round pick for Brassard (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick for Burakovsky (no longer with the team).
They traded Barrie (50% retained), Kerfoot, and a 6th round pick for Kadri (no longer with the team) and Rosen (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round drafted prospect for Bibeau (no longer with the team).
They traded a 4th round pick for Namestikov (no longer with the team).
They traded Zadorov and a 5th round drafted prospect for Saad (no longer with the team) and Gilbert (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round drafted prospect for Burroughs (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick and a 2nd round pick for Toews (still with the team).
They traded Cole (retained) for Patyren (no longer with the team).
They traded a 6th round pick for Johansson (no longer with the team).
They traded a 4th round pick for Nemeth (no longer with the team).
They traded a 5th round pick for Dubnyk (no longer with the team).
They traded a 5th round drafted prospect for Soderberg (no longer with the team).
They traded Graves for Maltsev (no longer with the team).
They traded a 4th for Macdermid (still with the team).
They traded a 1st round pick, a 3rd round pick, and Timmins for Kuemper (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick an a 2nd round drafted prospect for Manson (still with the team).
They traded Jost (a 10th overall selection of theirs) for Sturm (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick and a 1st round drafted prospect for Lehkonen (still with the team).
They traded a 5th round pick for Cogliano (still with the team).
They traded a 3rd round pick, a 3rd round pick, and a 5th round pick for Georgiev (still with the team).
They traded Hunt for Malgin (no longer with the team).
They traded a 1st round drafted prospect for Nieto (no longer with the team) and Merkley (no longer with the team).
They traded Bowers for Kinkaid (no longer with the team).
They traded a 2nd round pick for Ellers (no longer with the team).

So that's a 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th, Zadorov, Barrie, Graves, Cole, Timmins, Kerfoot, Bowers, and Hunt for players no longer with them.
And a 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th for players still with the team.

And now should we count players that were lost to sign those players that remained with the team? Or how about players that were added without any asset loss? Other teams? No? We're just going to take whatever tiny trade snapshot is most convenient for painting a misleading picture, instead of properly evaluating the entirety of their performance? Okay then. Don't forget to blame Dubas for Treliving trading away or not re-signing any of the guys he brought in last year that were better than the guys Treliving chose.

 

[ACC1224]

Now if they could make Treliving someone else’s problem….

His tenure will be short lived if he doesn't deliver.
I think the days of this be the GM training ground are over.

monahan played only 30% of game and cost 6,375 M you was not able to spend anywhere else... who was really right or wrong on evaluation?

I wonder why Dubas didn't see the massive value in Monahan and take advantage of the Flames?

 

[Fogelhund]

A week with no hockey and it’s Maole Leafs Festivus. Airing of the grievances.

We need some games to talk about.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Kyle Dubas' long-term strategy (as realized) for his blue line was Rielly (Holdover from Burke), McCabe, Lilly (Holdover from Lou), TJ Brodie, and nothing else.

Assuming the plan was to play rookies with those players, that is by-and-far the most under-funded and cap-starved defence league-wide.

Even with Klingberg at $4.5m signed by Treliving, that defence is still the most cap-starved in near-absolute and relative terms to the rest of the league.

It almost looks like Dubas didn't really care about what happened after his final year with the Leafs, instead he wanted to go out with a bang and demonstrate what 5 years of GM'ing can really do for a team: a pitiful 2nd round appearance.

That's a disgraceful outcome no matter how hard you try to spin it.

The point is, why would you overspend on Klingberg when you had 2 guys in house that could have the same if not better overall impact for cheaper. With that space, I would have rather given the money to Schenn as he was a very solid partner with Rielly and a strong, physical, defensive presence that we actually need. Then you could've had Say Timmins as a secondary puck mover on the 3rd pair and Giordano becomes your 7th D man instead of being a regular.

That or you reserve the cap space for a trade for a top 4 D man like Hanifin or Tanev for example.

Dubas and Hunter were co GM's with different responsibilities and along with Shanny ran the team as a GM by committee .

Dubas ran point on trades and when he/they f***ed up the Kessel trade Lou was brought in .

How was the Kessel trade botched?

 

[Gary Nylund]

A week with no hockey and it’s Maole Leafs Festivus. Airing of the grievances.

We need some games to talk about.

Some perspective isn't the worst thing. A little break from the games might help some people to step back and see the big picture - we're winning unsustainable pond hockey games and if keep playing the way we are, things will start to go downhill before long. Even as it is, we're tied for 9th overall with a goal differential of +2 which isn't exactly impressive.

 

[ACC1224]

A week with no hockey and it’s Maole Leafs Festivus. Airing of the grievances.

We need some games to talk about.

Amen to that.

 

[leafs in five]

yeah youre right barrie is a superstar who never be able to defend all his carreer and klinberg just trash player who can defend with the same exact kind of stats in carreer .. go ahead youre right the amaizing healthy barrie playing alongside rielly and muzzin was looking much better than 80% injured klinberg playing alongside mccabe, gio and lagesson

what about the decision to acquire the 80% injured washed dman

 

[ToneDog]

Some perspective isn't the worst thing. A little break from the games might help some people to step back and see the big picture - we're winning unsustainable pond hockey games and if keep playing the way we are, things will start to go downhill before long. Even as it is, we're tied for 9th overall with a goal differential of +2 which isn't exactly impressive.

Won Five (5) games in regulation, 2 of 3 skills competitions and 3 of 5, 3 on 3 games of shinny.

The good thing is that they seem to be building some chemistry. If that Sweden trip takes a toll, we could fall out of a playoff spot in the next few weeks.

 

[ACC1224]

what about the decision to acquire the 80% injured washed dman

Was a bad one for sure but it didn't cost any assets.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I read a quote...from Foligno...right after the injury in Winnipeg where he stated that it was from earlier in the season and he had been managing it and he will be fine in a couple of days. It isn't some conspiracy theory that he was injured before he was traded.

Injury in Winnipeg? He wasn't injured in Winnipeg. He got injured against Montreal, in his 5th game with us, after going PPG and playing well in a top 6 role through the first 4 games. A player like Foligno will always have bumps and bruises, but he has repeatedly stated that he was healthy when he came here, and that he experienced a debilitating injury while with us, unlike anything he's ever experienced, that forced him to change how he played.

For some reason, some people have taken the common occurrence of a pending high value deadline target sitting out the last game before the deadline as proof of some conspiracy that Foligno and everybody involved is lying.

Foligno started strong enough, recording an assist in each of his first four games with Toronto. Then a back injury slowed him down and forced him out of the lineup — Foligno played just four of the seven playoff games against the Montreal Canadiens and saw just 11:45 of ice time in the Game 7 loss that ended their season.

"My biggest disappointment is we didn't get the job done and I unfortunately got hurt," Foligno told Good Show on Thursday. "Regardless of what Leafs fans think of me, I'm way harder on myself, so the fact I couldn't perform to the abilities that I felt I was early on killed me inside and it's something I will regret forever probably that I couldn't come there and be the player I expected to be.

"I loved every minute of my time in Toronto and I think that's the bittersweet part."

Foligno was a force in Columbus' qualifying-round defeat of Toronto in the 2020 bubble and the hope was he'd bring that same energy and impact to the Leafs' 2021 playoff run. And while those first few games grew confidence that he was the right addition, the back injury he sustained in early May significantly impacted his ability to perform.

The Leafs didn't get the best playoff version of Foligno for that reason alone.

"I was just dealing with a really bad back injury that was debilitating," Foligno said. "There was nerve pain. Shut down my whole right leg. It was really disappointing that happened at the time it happened. Anything else you can play through a lot of times. This I couldn't. I tried and I just couldn't be the player — I like to hit and forecheck and do the things necessary in order to win the hard minutes of the game. So when that kind of got taken away now I had to rely more on my positional play and trying not to hurt the team, instead of trying to help the team it felt like. That bothered me a lot as a player just because I knew I could give more, I just physically couldn't."

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Yep. Kyle got 5 years, so Brad deserves that too. If Brad can get us to the 2nd round just once, he too can be declared an outside of the box thinking genius.

It makes me sick to think of how talented a team we had in Dubas' first years here. We had Connor Brown, Hyman, Kadri, Kappy, Trevor Moore etc....and each year we just bled a bit of talent while spending picks to replace them for the playoffs. It really is funny that people keep holding Dubas as this genius when he pissed the whole team away with his constant searching for another ECHL guy like Justin Holl to come to the rescue of his genius title.

 

[leafs in five]

that would be the same talented Kappy who was the main piece coming back in the botched Kessel trade?

 

[thusk]

The point is, why would you overspend on Klingberg when you had 2 guys in house that could have the same if not better overall impact for cheaper. With that space, I would have rather given the money to Schenn as he was a very solid partner with Rielly and a strong, physical, defensive presence that we actually need. Then you could've had Say Timmins as a secondary puck mover on the 3rd pair and Giordano becomes your 7th D man instead of being a regular.

That or you reserve the cap space for a trade for a top 4 D man like Hanifin or Tanev for example.

Scheen is 34, it was not the 1st season who will hurt but his 2nd and 3rd season...

what about the decision to acquire the 80% injured washed dman

he get injured in pre-season and maybe his actual injury is just the result of that pre-season injury he tried to deal with but finally just worst than what everyone anticipated


the funny thing with klinberg sign or d signing...

if treleving would do absolutly nothing with his D, leafs fan would complain he did nothing...

if he would gave up long term deal to guy like soucy,schenn or holl for too much/ too long than what they really bring, they would complain next summer when leafs would not have $$$$ available to try to sign player like hanifin, pesce, forsling, montour or whatever you want...the reality is the second best d ( behind orlov) signed last off-season would not be in top 10 of d available next summer

so at the end whatever he would do, people would complain. this team is not treliving team, its still dubas team, still dubas D...the fact treliving bring in 3-4 player in the line up doesn't change the fact than its dubas team created...Treliving just tried to fix leafs hole with tools he had...he gave up only 1 year deal