Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[Nineteen67]

My issues with treliving are on defense. Why the hell did he pass on schenn to sign the worst defensive stats defender in the league? Why did he not pick up a cheap Bogosian on waivers from Tampa?

Our defense is dog shit and it's directly due to who he passed on as well as who he signed.

A Schenn Brodie type bottom pair would be fantastic…..now fix the rest.

 

[hotpaws]

Vegas absolutely built a modern team. Big physical and grinding but they can actually play. They move the puck and defend well.
Tough physical hockey still very much has a place in the game today.

Treliving brought in multiple players that can’t defend. Reeves is also a guy that shows no understanding of where the game is today.
Enforcers that provide zero value outside of fighting other enforcers are useless. But even then he could have been fine if he assembled a team with 3 other strong 2 way lines.
When Reeves is on the 4th line it needs to be heavily sheltered which can work if you have a 3rd line you can trust with heavy defensive usage. But the 3rd line as he built it also needs to be sheltered.
We also have a 2nd line which doesn’t necessarily need to be sheltered but I wouldn’t want to hand a high % of defensive zone starts.

Bertuzzi, Domi, Reeves, and Klingberg each on their own could work just fine with the right mix around them. Domi and Bertuzzi if put in the right situations could be great 1 year deals. But added all together create a problem.
Sitting Reeves is a good start. If they can create a strong defensively responsible 4th line it would allow them to shelter the 3rd line and get the best out of them.

The only thing that has changed in todays game is the Orr type of enforcers have been eliminated and some of rule changes have been it easier for smaller players to compete . Other than that it's the same game.

so basically we're back to endlessly bitching how Reaves who plays 5/6 mins a night when he plays destroyed the team

Domi is working our fine since being moved to C , actually more than fine ,he's playing his ass off right now ,

Bert's been playing better and should only continue to up his game from his history

Berg's been bad but he's also had some good moments and the odd good game and maybe he is playing injured and that's part of his struggles .

Tre brought some weaker players on D but good defensive players who also can produce offensively weren't available and aren't cheap .

Tre walked into a problem where we needed more offense from our D and also Gio and Brodie regressing with age as well a 2nd line C who should be on the wing . Basically a lot of holes and few assets and means to fix them .

My issues with treliving are on defense. Why the hell did he pass on schenn to sign the worst defensive stats defender in the league? Why did he not pick up a cheap Bogosian on waivers from Tampa?

Our defense is dog shit and it's directly due to who he passed on as well as who he signed.

I'm assuming he passed in Schenn because he got more than 8m over 3 yrs . He's also been out since the first game .

 

[Nineteen67]

Vegas absolutely built a modern team. Big physical and grinding but they can actually play. They move the puck and defend well.
Tough physical hockey still very much has a place in the game today.

Treliving brought in multiple players that can’t defend. Reeves is also a guy that shows no understanding of where the game is today.
Enforcers that provide zero value outside of fighting other enforcers are useless. But even then he could have been fine if he assembled a team with 3 other strong 2 way lines.
When Reeves is on the 4th line it needs to be heavily sheltered which can work if you have a 3rd line you can trust with heavy defensive usage. But the 3rd line as he built it also needs to be sheltered.
We also have a 2nd line which doesn’t necessarily need to be sheltered but I wouldn’t want to hand a high % of defensive zone starts.

Bertuzzi, Domi, Reeves, and Klingberg each on their own could work just fine with the right mix around them. Domi and Bertuzzi if put in the right situations could be great 1 year deals. But added all together create a problem.
Sitting Reeves is a good start. If they can create a strong defensively responsible 4th line it would allow them to shelter the 3rd line and get the best out of them.

D, T6 LW, & B6 have been a problem for a long time.

 

[Nineteen67]

Exactly, I actually argued we keep Dubas before he made his power move, he seemed to have learned hockey isn’t a spread sheet. That doesn’t mean I absolve his past errors, only acknowledge his evolution, and the devil you know mentality. Tre is an open question, I just find it funny how obvious some are here with him, and then claim to be objective observers. Didn’t like Klingberg or Reaves, love Domi and Bert, also like the short term deals. Let’s see how he reshapes the D.

Theres no question the guy worked hard and tried like hades to make the team better. The problem is he was so green and shot himself in the foot too many times in the first few years and those self-inflicted wounds havent all healed.

 

[Drytoast]

The only thing that has changed in todays game is the Orr type of enforcers have been eliminated and some of rule changes have been it easier for smaller players to compete . Other than that it's the same game.

so basically we're back to endlessly bitching how Reaves who plays 5/6 mins a night when he plays destroyed the team

Domi is working our fine since being moved to C , actually more than fine ,he's playing his ass off right now ,

Bert's been playing better and should only continue to up his game from his history

Berg's been bad but he's also had some good moments and the odd good game and maybe he is playing injured and that's part of his struggles .

Tre brought some weaker players on D but good defensive players who also can produce offensively weren't available and aren't cheap .

Tre walked into a problem where we needed more offense from our D and also Gio and Brodie regressing with age as well a 2nd line C who should be on the wing . Basically a lot of holes and few assets and means to fix them .


I'm assuming he passed in Schenn because he got more than 8m over 3 yrs . He's also been out since the first game .

Injuries you can't predict. But Schenn is the exact type of defenseman we are looking for. Big hard hitting defensive minded defenseman who will stick up for his team, clear the front of the net and intimidate your opponent. He is worth 8m over 3 years. Instead we paid over 4 to Klingberg along with a 10 team NTC. Schenn is EXACTLY the best parts of Muzzin. And we loved Muzzin. We PAID Muzzin.

Anyways. Ya. A defenseman like Schenn for everything he brings to the table, intimidation, defense first...HUGE...will fight. That's worth money. You have to pay for that.

 

[GoonieFace]

I think that is also true. Some people in here pick sides and will defend their side and attack the other no matter what.
It makes it real hard to have any conversation in the middle sometimes

I think it’s just common sense that we can’t start railroading Tre after 15 games and the fact he started with a short period of time before free agency started. And it’s pretty obvious the ones doing that, and they are the Dubas fan boys

 

[ACC1224]

Injuries you can't predict. But Schenn is the exact type of defenseman we are looking for. Big hard hitting defensive minded defenseman who will stick up for his team, clear the front of the net and intimidate your opponent. He is worth 8m over 3 years. Instead we paid over 4 to Klingberg along with a 10 team NTC. Schenn is EXACTLY the best parts of Muzzin. And we loved Muzzin. We PAID Muzzin.

Anyways. Ya. A defenseman like Schenn for everything he brings to the table, intimidation, defense first...HUGE...will fight. That's worth money. You have to pay for that.

Schenn makes too much for too long. I'm sure the Leafs tried to retain him but he went for the money.
It would have been great had he come back but understandable why he moved on.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Ya... he only left him a bunch of all-stars in their prime and a bunch of cheap ELCs ready to play...

Analysts are idiots... the only good one is Mike Johnson.

Dubas left him with the same four all-stars he inherited (but several years older), no better depth (beyond maybe Tavares), and fewer draft picks.

 

[Apex Predator]

My issues with treliving are on defense. Why the hell did he pass on schenn to sign the worst defensive stats defender in the league? Why did he not pick up a cheap Bogosian on waivers from Tampa?

Our defense is dog shit and it's directly due to who he passed on as well as who he signed.

I wouldn’t be comfortable giving schenn the contract he got. I wish he did something on the defense instead of Domi bertuzzi but we’ll see how the season plays out.

 

[Mess]

I think it’s just common sense that we can’t start railroading Tre after 15 games and the fact he started with a short period of time before free agency started. And it’s pretty obvious the ones doing that, and they are the Dubas fan boys

Wait till the Team starts winning regularly as he new players have had time to adjust and attempt to find their own places on the team.

Whenever you have significant player personnel turnover there is obviously going to be an adjustment period for players that have never played together to find team chemistry as that is the whole concept of a TEAM game.

I'm giving him a 2 year grace period until Leafs can get out from under the $11 mil Tavares contract that created this CAP HELL situation of overpaid contracts, to where we can see his vision fully coming into play on team building.

 

[thusk]

Injuries you can't predict. But Schenn is the exact type of defenseman we are looking for. Big hard hitting defensive minded defenseman who will stick up for his team, clear the front of the net and intimidate your opponent. He is worth 8m over 3 years. Instead we paid over 4 to Klingberg along with a 10 team NTC. Schenn is EXACTLY the best parts of Muzzin. And we loved Muzzin. We PAID Muzzin.

Anyways. Ya. A defenseman like Schenn for everything he brings to the table, intimidation, defense first...HUGE...will fight. That's worth money. You have to pay for that.

Schenn is as slow than Gio and hes at 34 and will just become even slower, hes a potential 3M reaves 2.0. in his last year of his deal and maybe last 2, he will be a worst handicap than klinberg right now

 

[Peasy]

I think it’s just common sense that we can’t start railroading Tre after 15 games and the fact he started with a short period of time before free agency started. And it’s pretty obvious the ones doing that, and they are the Dubas fan boys

This. People are actin like this team is in complete shambles because of Tre's moves, but when you look back to last year we are basically at the same point totals after the same amount of games. Its pretty comical.

 

[notDatsyuk]

That is pretty much this thread.
Post any kind of critical analysis of the moves Tre made and the only response from half of those defending him is: But Dubas did X.

That wasn't "a critical analysis of the moves Tre made", it was a critical analysis of the draft situation, which is what Dubas left.

So the reality is: Post any kind of critical analysis of the moves Dubas made and the only response from half of those defending him is: But Tre did X.

 

[thusk]

I wouldn’t be comfortable giving schenn the contract he got. I wish he did something on the defense instead of Domi bertuzzi but we’ll see how the season plays out.

its easy to say that but wich D was available last summer? Karlsson? to do something with D, you need to have player you need available and it was not the case last summer

 

[Machinae]

Best offseason D signing is unironically Erik Gustafsson who has turned into a two-way demon for NYR. Wonder if Dubas would have kept him. Probably not, but man.. I thought he looked good with the Leafs outside of that first mistake on his first PP.

 

[ACC1224]

Best offseason D signing is unironically Erik Gustafsson who has turned into a two-way demon for NYR. Wonder if Dubas would have kept him. Probably not, but man.. I thought he looked good with the Leafs outside of that first mistake on his first PP.

Puzzling for sure, must be a story behind it. The whole league could have had him and he could only get league minimum. Seems weird.

 

[Nineteen67]

Wait till the Team starts winning regularly as he new players have had time to adjust and attempt to find their own places on the team.

Whenever you have significant player personnel turnover there is obviously going to be an adjustment period for players that have never played together to find team chemistry as that is the whole concept of a TEAM game.

I'm giving him a 2 year grace period until Leafs can get out from under the $11 mil Tavares contract that created this CAP HELL situation of overpaid contracts, to where we can see his vision fully coming into play on team building.

I have zero confidence Treliving will use the freed up cap space properly.

 

[Mess]

This. People are actin like this team is in complete shambles because of Tre's moves, but when you look back to last year we are basically at the same point totals after the same amount of games. Its pretty comical.

I posted the same thought with evidence recently.

This year after 15 games the Leafs are 8-5-2 for 18 points

Last year after 15 games the Leafs were 7-5-3 for 17 points.

 

[All Mod Cons]

don't try to spin my post , no one's saying we can't discuss Tre's off season moves , it's just no one's going to listen to constant bitching about him from the last GM's supporters who believed every move he made was a stroke of genius

and here are Tre's moves

-signed AM to a 4yr deal - as good as could have been expected considering all the reports said he only wanted a 2/3yr
-signed Domi - playing very good since switch to C
-signed Bert - bad start , play and production starting to come around
-signed Reaves - horrible signing but he can be waived and buried at minimal cap hit
-signed Berg - for the most part he's been bad

would have liked to bring back ROR but he had no intention of signing

would have liked Schenn back but at no where near the 8m over 3yrs he signed for

Laff did nothing here than can't be easily replaced

and in summary any bad move were on 1 yr deals or easily buried , also there's still trades that can be made to improve the D

so far from the horror show our ex GM's supporters are trying to spin


sad you'll go as far as bringing up a poor kids tragic death in some weird defense of Dubas

Absolutely terrible post by the Rumble. He should really be ashamed. No way should his passing be used like that. Lost a lot of respect for that guy.

 

[ITM]

My issues with treliving are on defense. Why the hell did he pass on schenn to sign the worst defensive stats defender in the league? Why did he not pick up a cheap Bogosian on waivers from Tampa?

Our defense is dog shit and it's directly due to who he passed on as well as who he signed.

Luke Schenn has played one game this year.

Perhaps there were durability concerns at a price point that didn't make sense for Toronto.

Treliving hasn't been here long enough to get this type of blame foisted on him.

You know where the point of importance that good GMs don't pass up on? It's selling short on good young assets or overpaying with those assets that get players approaching and into their prime.

So far, Treliving hasn't done that. He was left with a box of puzzle pieces the other kid left and has done as good a job with the box he was left.

If our previous manager managed with an eye towards building a defence, he would have spent the assets he had differently. Loved the prospect of a healthy Nick Foligno being a Leaf. Would have loved that 1st spent on a tough D instead. Etc, etc, etc...

Your issues with Treliving aren't on defense. They're with the Penguins president.

 

[LeafEgo]

Wait till the Team starts winning regularly as he new players have had time to adjust and attempt to find their own places on the team.

Whenever you have significant player personnel turnover there is obviously going to be an adjustment period for players that have never played together to find team chemistry as that is the whole concept of a TEAM game.

I'm giving him a 2 year grace period until Leafs can get out from under the $11 mil Tavares contract that created this CAP HELL situation of overpaid contracts, to where we can see his vision fully coming into play on team building.

This was made abundantly clear last year when we had to overhaul a third of the team at the tdl to get ready for the playoffs. Hopefully we're not doing that in two years time.

 

[kevsh]

We need more guys like this.



The goal scoring would be nice too.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Theres no question the guy worked hard and tried like hades to make the team better. The problem is he was so green and shot himself in the foot too many times in the first few years and those self-inflicted wounds havent all healed.

100%. I always thought he did too much damage too quickly and wouldn't be able to resolve those issues in the time a normal GM is given.

 

[Mess]

I have zero confidence Treliving will use the freed up cap space properly.

If BT can keep Nylander below or around $10 mil and JT comes off the books and/or re-signed at 1/2 price the Leafs the Leafs could enter the Treliving era with only 2 X double digit forwards as the Cap continues to rise by $4 to $5 mil per season. There will be a real opponitunity in time to correct this IF BT makes the right moves.

The same things that are wrong with this team still reside from past mistakes of tooo much $$$ in tooo few players with core 4 eating up 1/2 your cap and weak coach, and a team built from the forwards in instead of from the "Goalie out, through strong defense, and a prospect pool abused where picks were dealt away like candy often to correct self inflicted mistakes..

BT has inherited this problem so the results remain the same until he has time to address and fix them. IMHO

Insanity is the definition of doing the same mistakes over and over and expecting different results.

 

[TheRumble]

If BT can keep Nylander below or around $10 mil and JT comes off the books and/or re-signed at 1/2 price the Leafs the Leafs could enter the Treliving era with only 2 X double digit forwards as the Cap continues to rise by $4 to $5 mil per season. There will be a real opponitunity in time to correct this IF BT makes the right moves.

The same things that are wrong with this team still reside from past mistakes of tooo much $$$ in tooo few players with core 4 eating up 1/2 your cap and weak coach, and a team built from the forwards in instead of from the "Goalie out, through strong defense, and a prospect pool abused where picks were dealt away like candy often to correct self inflicted mistakes..

BT has inherited this problem so the results remain the same until he has time to address and fix them. IMHO

Insanity is the definition of doing the same mistakes over and over and expecting different results.

The time to sign Nylander for under $10 million is long gone.

Conservatively, if Nylander gets 40 goals, 50 assists and 90 points this year, $10 is a fair price. If he gets more, forget it. Especially given that he's a UFA.

You guys wanted to go in a different direction well, you might have that chacne this season if we end up losing Nylander for nothing with no similarly impactful players hitting free agency.