Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[thusk]

I made the mistake of looking at the same number of years for both, so 33 vs 18.

But still selective. In 33 games Domi had 19 points. Willy in 25 games had 25 points.

but as 3rd line C, whats your expected is 5v5 contribution. you dont pay 3M for a 3rd C to drive your offensive + being the key piece of your pp. they spend already a lot of money on 4 player to do that.

 

[Martin Skoula]

It's about the same garbage uninspired hockey as last year yeah. Almost identical, just with more injuries on D.

Is this supposed to the the stage where you bring out all these obscure numbers to try and tell us how much better we allegedly were last year? Because I'd just interpret it as even more proof of just how garbage those advanced stats are, team literally looks the same.

How do we have more injuries on D? We had Rielly Brodie and Muzzin (when we still expected him to play and allocated cap accordingly) out at the same time last November and had to run a Mete-Hollowell pairing with Gio-Holl as the top pairing. Losing Gio and Lily is a walk in the park in comparison.

but as 3rd line C, whats your expected is 5v5 contribution. you dont pay 3M for a 3rd C to drive your offensive + being the key piece of your pp. they spend already a lot of money on 4 player to do that.

Kerfoot put up 50 ES points while giving us defensive minutes and top unit PK time. Domi doesn’t PK or play defense, if he’s not doing that then yeah he better bring some offense to make up for his complete lack of utility.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Imagine being so thin-skinned about Dubas criticism that you have to dig up and attack a post from two weeks ago, while simultaneously attacking your own team’s GM.

Last time I checked the Leafs are doing better than last year’s record, and the Penguins are far worse than theirs thanks to Dubas’ butcher job.

Ouch!

I just picked up reading the thread where I left off. Whoopsie on the date. Still doesn’t change what I said. Less regulation wins than San Jose. Outplayed in OT while riding 4 players very hard driving them into the ground to scrounge bonus points.

The parts of this team that are keeping them afloat are the pieces Brad inherited and surrounded with trash

 

[I am Canadian]

When have they not mattered? There's no playoffs if they didn't. Are you mixing my opinions up with other poster's or something?


Treliving doesn't have near the PR team on HFBoards that Dubas did. That's for sure.

Treliving has signed 4/4 duds so far.

$5,500,000
$3,000,000
$4,150,000
$1,350,000

Dubas likely would have done better with 14M available to him. Treliving needs to show some competencies first. Somehow our D core is worse than when Dubas was here - that is pretty impressive.

 

[Nylanderthal]

It's about the same garbage uninspired hockey as last year yeah. Almost identical, just with more injuries on D.

Is this supposed to the the stage where you bring out all these obscure numbers to try and tell us how much better we allegedly were last year? Because I'd just interpret it as even more proof of just how garbage those advanced stats are, team literally looks the same.

The bottom 6 and pk look a lot worse this year, that’s not really debatable. As hated as guys like kerfoot and Engvall were by certain corners of the fan base, they filled a role and had a utility on the team.
Still lots of time to improve the roster, but the first signs of what the new regime has in mind isn’t promising.

 

[ITM]

Risto? Really? Dubas truly was the hero we needed but didn't deserve. SMH.

A decimated defense corps that was never prioritized supporting our forward core who was, but only in so far 40% of the cap provided for, isn't quite the definition of "heroic" we want to cling to, now is it?

What's worse? Allowing Zach Hyman to enter the free market or acquiring Ristolainen?

We talk about Treliving fumbling on the Klingberg acquisition. So the net is cap space now for a mistake that played itself out over 14 games.

We don't talk about Muzzin and his injury history. Looked like a necessary piece when he was healthy.

Was he a better option than the time and cap space we could have used while developing Grundstrom and Durzi and whoever we were going to pick at 22 that year?

 

[Bomber0104]

I just picked up reading the thread where I left off. Whoopsie on the date. Still doesn’t change what I said. Less regulation wins than San Jose. Outplayed in OT while riding 4 players very hard driving them into the ground to scrounge bonus points.

The parts of this team that are keeping them afloat are the pieces Brad inherited and surrounded with trash

Oh wow, so what are you prognosticating exactly here with this team?

Do you think this team has lose-in-the-first round upside like 6 of the last 7 years, ergo same results?

Heaven forbid worse, as in miss the playoffs?

Or lose-in-five-games-in-the-second-round upside, our crowning achievement of the past 7 years?

Really curious what you think will happen, since you seem to have this team all figured out after 22 regular season games played.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Do regular season results matter now? Because we have 5 wins and 6 losses that translates to how the playoffs are played.

But the regular season is pointless and this isn't playoff hockey, so shouldn't we be worried about how we are playing over how many shootouts we win?

This is all very confusing to keep up with. Do results matter or not?

We do have 5 regulation wins, but there is overtime in the playoffs. It is not 3v3, there is not a shootout, but also there are no ties. Are playoff overtimes considered automatic losses when compared to the tie breaker gimmicks we have now? Obviously, I would like the team win in regulation, in fact, I would like the Leafs to dominate, but we are banking points - the gimmicks have benefited the team this year.

 

[notDatsyuk]

but as 3rd line C, whats your expected is 5v5 contribution. you dont pay 3M for a 3rd C to drive your offensive + being the key piece of your pp. they spend already a lot of money on 4 player to do that.

Why did you omit the last paragraph of my post, pointing out that I wasn't criticizing Domi, but your selection of stats?

Speaking of which, why omit the 19-20 season? Oh, I see - he had one ES point in 10 games, compared to Willy's 3 in 5.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Risto? Really? Dubas truly was the hero we needed but didn't deserve. SMH.

A tweet did say that Treliving was looking in to him.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I don't even know who you are so no clue what your opinions are... but the overwhelming opinion of "the real world" people here are that they think the regular season is irrelevant and where we finish is not important.

That is when the team is playing well. When the team isn't playing that well but still getting wins, the complaint is regulation wins and how they don't have the same tie breakers in the playoffs. When they aren't playing well and the team is not getting points, then the worry is the playoffs - in that case, it is a legitimate worry though it is only 22 games.

 

[thusk]

Why did you omit the last paragraph of my post, pointing out that I wasn't criticizing Domi, but your selection of stats?

Speaking of which, why omit the 19-20 season? Oh, I see - he had one ES point in 10 games, compared to Willy's 3 in 5.

domi was not in good grace at this moment, he was playing in a limited role on 4th line. its hard to evaluate an otfensive player who didn't had any real chance to produce...thats why i didn't talk about this season

 

[IPS]

Reminds me so much of Lou's last year here vs Dubas first year.

Apparantly the team just improved Leaps and bounds yet we finished 5 points lower. Only "proof" that was provided was the obscure advanced stats. Same playoff results against the same team, same everything basically. Apparantly the team was well on their way to greatness until they actually missed the playoffs in 2020 (however you wanna interpret it). Dubas needed a solid 2 years before he could get something better figured out. Are the Dubas fans gonna afford Brad this same leniency? Sure doesn't f***ing look like it. Short sample size is officially no longer a thing with them, 20 games is enough to fire up the f*** Brad Treliving train. It's just so transparent at this point it's not even funny.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Maple Leafs' 2023-24 Offensive Evolution - The Hockey Writers Toronto Maple Leafs Latest News, Analysis & More

Have the Toronto Maple Leafs changed the way they play this season? What do hockey analysts Elliotte Friedman and Kevin Bieksa say about it?

thehockeywriters.com

They rank 22nd in rush chances against, 28th in slot shots against, and 27th in inner slot shots against.

The defense stinks.

Treliving has done a great job all right. At making the defense worse. Anyone who thinks the team is better defensively this year is sorely mistaken.

Benoit is doing better than expected given his preseason performance but guess what?

He still stinks. They all do. This is not a Stanley Cup winning defense.

It probably doesn't even get you respect in the handshake lineup.

Management is selling us a polished turd. It's definitely not a diamond. If you squint really hard you might be able to convince yourself it's a cubic zirconia.

But at the end of the day it's still a stinky ole turd.

I think the fact they are down 3 d men and are still able to hold it together kind of lends to my point in this thread.

Benoit and Lagesson, while not the flashy signings have done a tremendous job as fill ins.

Despite being down 3 D men Toronto as a points% of just over 650.

Take 3 D men off any other team in the NHL, with the possible exception of Boston and watch what happens.

If you take Hedman, Sergachev and Cernak off Tampa for example what do you think happens?

What about Dahlin, Power and Cliffton?

What about Seider, Wallman and Petry?

That's What's happened in Toronto, they have lost half their D and So far have managed to stay above water and Treliving deserves credit for 2 very smart signings in Lagesson and Benoit.

 

[arso40]

I think the fact they are down 3 d men and are still able to hold it together kind of lends to my point in this thread.

Benoit and Lagesson, while not the flashy signings have done a tremendous job as fill ins.

Despite being down 3 D men Toronto as a points% of just over 650.

Take 3 D men off any other team in the NHL, with the possible exception of Boston and watch what happens.

If you take Hedman, Sergachev and Cernak off Tampa for example what do you think happens?

What about Dahlin, Power and Cliffton?

What about Seider, Wallman and Petry?

That's What's happened in Toronto, they have lost half So far have managed to stay above water and Treliving deserves credit for 2 very smart signings in Lagesson and Benoit.

Understanding that the leafs top three isn’t injured it’s the bottom three according to the toi so the comparison is plausible in my opinion but In saying that we are short handed on d and forced to play ppl in places they aren’t supposed to be in so full marks on pulling out points during the stretch

 

[meefer]

For the most part, I was a fan of Dubas, for the most part. I appreciate the way he treated the players, I approved of his upgrading the physical/staff/support structures that benefits the team to this day. I think he was hampered by poor drafting for the 5 or 6 years prior to him being named GM, when being gifted the talents he was with WN/MM/AM, a few home grown talents that could contribute on the 3rd and 4th lines would have been nice, as would a defenseman or two, draft capital could have been saved. I had no problem with signing JT at 11. A free agent is going to get paid. It wasn't his fault the Wuhan Flu made John's cap hit a constant % of the Leaf's cap space. And Rodion.
He did screw up with Willy, I'd have liked to see a more experienced approach. Willy would have set the tone for the next two. Here's your deal, it's fair, accept it or sit. Matthews at 10, Marner at 9 and Willy at 6.25 and we've another 4.25M for free agents every year of those RFA contracts, regardless of Covid.

Tre had a whole lot of shyte to deal with when he arrived. At best, I'll give him a 50/50 on what has occurred. I don't like the Matthews contract, he isn't the best player in the game and should not be paid as such. Again, an overpayment by management for a player who has not yet earned the privilege. Domi and Bert I won't judge, yet. Though both are trending in a positive way. Reeves was/is a disaster. Mind blowingly bad. Klingberg...his first few games were not terrible, did the medical staff f*** up, was Klingberg less than honest, was it just bad luck? I don't know, but it doesn't 'look' good on Tre. His reclamation FAs: Gregor, Lagesson and Benoit have exceeded my expectations, good on Tre. And, for the most part, Tre has presented a rather likeable and calm presence to the public. In this market that's a plus. As I said, 50/50.

The real deal maker/breaker for me will be how he moves forward from here. His biggest challenge is to determine whether this team can compete in the playoffs if he tweaks the team's construction. I think it will come down to whether he trades Willy or not for a 1st pairing D. I don't have faith that this group is good enough on the back end to go the distance, regardless of how the F group plays. His only trade chip that might garner what we need is Willy. From there he can re-evaluate. If he decides that alone is not enough - injuries, continuing mediocre efforts from some of our stars, lack of scoring support, etc. - then adjust again depending on the reasons. It may be this team is simply lacking in too many areas. Losing Woll to what appears may be a long time certainly hurts and will undoubtably muddy the waters. He's got a lot on his plate, I wish him well.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

For the most part, I was a fan of Dubas, for the most part. I appreciate the way he treated the players, I approved of his upgrading the physical/staff/support structures that benefits the team to this day. I think he was hampered by poor drafting for the 5 or 6 years prior to him being named GM, when being gifted the talents he was with WN/MM/AM, a few home grown talents that could contribute on the 3rd and 4th lines would have been nice, as would a defenseman or two, draft capital could have been saved. I had no problem with signing JT at 11. A free agent is going to get paid. It wasn't his fault the Wuhan Flu made John's cap hit a constant % of the Leaf's cap space. And Rodion.
He did screw up with Willy, I'd have liked to see a more experienced approach. Willy would have set the tone for the next two. Here's your deal, it's fair, accept it or sit. Matthews at 10, Marner at 9 and Willy at 6.25 and we've another 4.25M for free agents every year of those RFA contracts, regardless of Covid.

Tre had a whole lot of shyte to deal with when he arrived. At best, I'll give him a 50/50 on what has occurred. I don't like the Matthews contract, he isn't the best player in the game and should not be paid as such. Again, an overpayment by management for a player who has not yet earned the privilege. Domi and Bert I won't judge, yet. Though both are trending in a positive way. Reeves was/is a disaster. Mind blowingly bad. Klingberg...his first few games were not terrible, did the medical staff f*** up, was Klingberg less than honest, was it just bad luck? I don't know, but it doesn't 'look' good on Tre. His reclamation FAs: Gregor, Lagesson and Benoit have exceeded my expectations, good on Tre. And, for the most part, Tre has presented a rather likeable and calm presence to the public. In this market that's a plus. As I said, 50/50.

The real deal maker/breaker for me will be how he moves forward from here. His biggest challenge is to determine whether this team can compete in the playoffs if he tweaks the team's construction. I think it will come down to whether he trades Willy or not for a 1st pairing D. I don't have faith that this group is good enough on the back end to go the distance, regardless of how the F group plays. His only trade chip that might garner what we need is Willy. From there he can re-evaluate. If he decides that alone is not enough - injuries, continuing mediocre efforts from some of our stars, lack of scoring support, etc. - then adjust again depending on the reasons. It may be this team is simply lacking in too many areas. Losing Woll to what appears may be a long time certainly hurts and will undoubtably muddy the waters. He's got a lot on his plate, I wish him well.

So what would you have done let the franchise center go?

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Randomly hit me yesterday that people use one of Dubas' worst trades to make fun of new GM in a way to defend old gm (barrie 2.0 signing).

How does that even make sense. Confusing. I rather strike out on a 1 year ufa signing than lose kadri

 

[notDatsyuk]

I think the fact they are down 3 d men and are still able to hold it together kind of lends to my point in this thread.

Benoit and Lagesson, while not the flashy signings have done a tremendous job as fill ins.

Despite being down 3 D men Toronto as a points% of just over 650.

Take 3 D men off any other team in the NHL, with the possible exception of Boston and watch what happens.

If you take Hedman, Sergachev and Cernak off Tampa for example what do you think happens?

What about Dahlin, Power and Cliffton?

What about Seider, Wallman and Petry?

That's What's happened in Toronto, they have lost half their D and So far have managed to stay above water and Treliving deserves credit for 2 very smart signings in Lagesson and Benoit.

Are you seriously comparing Liljegren to Hedman, Dahlin, and Seider?

I wish that was realistic!

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Are you seriously comparing Liljegren to Hedman, Dahlin, and Seider?

I wish that was realistic!

No, all I'm saying is if you take half a teams defense crops away most of them, with the possible exception of Boston are going to fall apart.

The Leafs have lost half their defense crops and so far they have been able to keep their head above water.

And a lot of that is due to the Job that Lagesson and Benoit have been able to do as fill ins.

They aren't flashy signings but they were very smart signings.

 

[Stephen]

Our third pairing is 5 million... Klingberg was signed and is our 6th D.

If it isn't the most expensive 3rd pairing in the league, it has to be close.

Lagesson/Benoit are 7th and 8th.

That’s like saying Matt Murray is our starter… and Jake Muzzin is our number 2 defenseman. All those guys are off the cap now and are irrelevant.

 

[Stephen]

You know what the League should really do. Just have the cap counted for game time lineup.
Like as long as the game time lineup is within the Cap, who cares if the team go over the Cap with their complete roster. As long as the team is not losing money and is in the black.
The league let teams do that anyway with all these cap mental gymnastics with LTIR or this or that....then come TDL, retention and then when playoffs start, there is no Cap.
Why can't the league just do that from the start.

I could see that being gamed so hard. Having a nightmare of super teams and load management. Why they don’t just do a soft cap and luxury tax is beyond me.

 

[notDatsyuk]

No, all I'm saying is if you take half a teams defense crops away most of them, with the possible exception of Boston are going to fall apart.

The Leafs have lost half their defense crops and so far they have been able to keep their head above water.

And a lot of that is due to the Job that Lagesson and Benoit have been able to do as fill ins.

They aren't flashy signings but they were very smart signings.

But you're comparing three of our bottom four D to the three best on other teams. Not realistic at all.

It's like saying Reaves out of our lineup is similar to Boston losing Pastrnak.

 

[nuck]

For the most part, I was a fan of Dubas, for the most part. I appreciate the way he treated the players, I approved of his upgrading the physical/staff/support structures that benefits the team to this day. I think he was hampered by poor drafting for the 5 or 6 years prior to him being named GM, when being gifted the talents he was with WN/MM/AM, a few home grown talents that could contribute on the 3rd and 4th lines would have been nice, as would a defenseman or two, draft capital could have been saved. I had no problem with signing JT at 11. A free agent is going to get paid. It wasn't his fault the Wuhan Flu made John's cap hit a constant % of the Leaf's cap space. And Rodion.
He did screw up with Willy, I'd have liked to see a more experienced approach. Willy would have set the tone for the next two. Here's your deal, it's fair, accept it or sit. Matthews at 10, Marner at 9 and Willy at 6.25 and we've another 4.25M for free agents every year of those RFA contracts, regardless of Covid.

Tre had a whole lot of shyte to deal with when he arrived. At best, I'll give him a 50/50 on what has occurred. I don't like the Matthews contract, he isn't the best player in the game and should not be paid as such. Again, an overpayment by management for a player who has not yet earned the privilege. Domi and Bert I won't judge, yet. Though both are trending in a positive way. Reeves was/is a disaster. Mind blowingly bad. Klingberg...his first few games were not terrible, did the medical staff f*** up, was Klingberg less than honest, was it just bad luck? I don't know, but it doesn't 'look' good on Tre. His reclamation FAs: Gregor, Lagesson and Benoit have exceeded my expectations, good on Tre. And, for the most part, Tre has presented a rather likeable and calm presence to the public. In this market that's a plus. As I said, 50/50.

The real deal maker/breaker for me will be how he moves forward from here. His biggest challenge is to determine whether this team can compete in the playoffs if he tweaks the team's construction. I think it will come down to whether he trades Willy or not for a 1st pairing D. I don't have faith that this group is good enough on the back end to go the distance, regardless of how the F group plays. His only trade chip that might garner what we need is Willy. From there he can re-evaluate. If he decides that alone is not enough - injuries, continuing mediocre efforts from some of our stars, lack of scoring support, etc. - then adjust again depending on the reasons. It may be this team is simply lacking in too many areas. Losing Woll to what appears may be a long time certainly hurts and will undoubtably muddy the waters. He's got a lot on his plate, I wish him well.

The coach is the real question. I could have gone into the season with the only change being Keefe out and I would feel better about them than at this moment. Getting outshot by scrub teams and getting goalie wins isn't an achievement for the coach. Inability to put teams away in regulation is a real concern. Other teams are picking up on his strategies and anticipating what the Leafs are going to be doing pretty well every night. Teams are doing a lot better than this with weaker lineups. It shouldn't take an extended losing streak for this to be apparent, its the Xs and Os that are costing games, more than the individuals.

As to the Matthews deal I like it. From the standpoint of the club having no leverage its a win to me. The number is affordable and in two years the AAV will not be eye opening. He has the MVP on his resume and he is young enough that you are going to be paying for that achievement every year.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Reminds me so much of Lou's last year here vs Dubas first year.

Apparantly the team just improved Leaps and bounds yet we finished 5 points lower. Only "proof" that was provided was the obscure advanced stats. Same playoff results against the same team, same everything basically. Apparantly the team was well on their way to greatness until they actually missed the playoffs in 2020 (however you wanna interpret it). Dubas needed a solid 2 years before he could get something better figured out. Are the Dubas fans gonna afford Brad this same leniency? Sure doesn't f***ing look like it. Short sample size is officially no longer a thing with them, 20 games is enough to fire up the f*** Brad Treliving train. It's just so transparent at this point it's not even funny.

I mean no shit, the core isn’t 22 anymore, we don’t have much time to for Brad to figure it out before it’s time for another rebuild. Also Dubas wasn’t coming in off one of some of the worst offseasons in a long time like Trev was with Calgary, he already used up his benefit of the doubt.