Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[notDatsyuk]

Chiming in as a Wings fan here, You guys got a hell of a player with Bert. Such an ugly display of stick work and skating combo but somehow makes it super effective. The guy is all heart and fears nothing. Health is his only downfall. He had back surgery which didn't slow him down then last year broke his hand blocking a shot, comes back and like 2 games later breaks his other hand blocking a shot. So some is just bad luck but shows heart but the back issue was the sticking point it seemed.

Serious question for you guys though, what's with the need for the core 4? I'm no GM nor a Leafs fan but why is everyone against trading Willy? I'd be looking for a trade partner for either a true tender ie Helly, I high end defenseman or a top end d prospect with some assets. I'll be the first to admit your forward lineup is disgustingly stacked, on Defense you have Reilly and really no one else is significant including your goalies.

Long story short you guys have glaring needs and the capital is there to make changes but why is everyone so hell bent on keeping Nylander too?

Whether to keep or trade Nylander has been one on the biggest splits here.

He's been a whipping boy for both management and some fans, but even playing with Tavares he's the one if the four who has actually outperformed his contract.

It's awkward him being the only one of the four without a full NMC, but really the practical thing is to keep him, and hang on until Tavares' contract ends.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Tre inherited a team that is getting better in the playoffs, what are you talking about stagnant? Or do we no longer care about rounds won?

Treliving has literally just shuffled chairs like Dubas does and people are saying he is a great GM. Everyone wanted major change and now no one does...

How are they getting better in the playoffs? They barely beat a team whose top two defencemen were injured, and then got steamrolled in five games, with their three highest paid players producing one goal and five assists between them.

Only someone wearing Dubas-coloured glasses could say they were better.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I'd give him a bit of a break for Acciari and Schenn signing. Acciari (31) signed for 2 AAV for 3 years; Kampf (28) signed for 4 years at 2.4 AAV. To me personally its a wash. Acciari is not as effective as he was in his 20s IMO.

Schenn (33) signed for 2.75 AAV for 3 years; while Klingberg (31) is only a 1 yr deal at 4.1 AAV. We've needed a puck mover on the back end and a slapshot on the PP. Klingberg is a risk for sure but its not a big risk. Entire offensive production from the backend was dependent on Rielly; given keefe refuses to use Lily as an offensive D-man; we needed another offensive D-man.

Klingberg's numbers aren't too bad, relatively speaking; if we remove the Ducks' season. Ducks were trash to begin with. Lily is an RFA with arb rights the following season when Klingberg is off the books; I see that as a stop gap with Brodie and Gio potentially also done we will have a chance at rebuilding our D after next season; unless Tre decides to do it this season by trading Brodie and replacing him with someone on the right side.

View attachment 738924


Dubas was and still is grade A trash who ruined the Leafs. His fans can go on the pens board. It pisses me off when people talk about dubas like he helped the leafs while he continuously continued to screw the leafs.

Tre's done a lot more than Dubas has ever done for this team in just a few months

I wouldn't say he's done a lot, but from appearances at least, he hasn't made the team worse, so he's that far ahead of Dubas.

We'll have to wait until the season is well underway to judge.

 

[Maple Leaf]

How are they getting better in the playoffs? They barely beat a team whose top two defencemen were injured, and then got steamrolled in five games, with their three highest paid players producing one goal and five assists between them.

Only someone wearing Dubas-coloured glasses could say they were better.

Need some real core players show up in crunch time playoff hero Ryan Smyth style

 

[notDatsyuk]

More accurately...

When Dubas took over, the team was set up for a drop off from their inflated 105 points, he had 0-1 years to re-sign all of the core RFAs that had been mistreated to increases totaling tens of millions of dollars, he had a depleted and unreplenished prospect pool, and had multiple expensive cap anchors on the team. And there was an impending global pandemic that would unexpectedly stagnate the cap. And for the record, a 5 x 10.5m offer sheet wouldn't have been four 1st round picks; not that that's an adequate return for two of the best players of the cap era anyway.

When Treliving took over, the team was set up to maintain the consistent ~115 point level they had achieved, he had 1-2 years to re-sign his core the team had built good relationships with to increases that were completely covered by cap increases, he had an improved prospect pool and quality ELCs available to him, no cap anchors, plenty of cap space to shape his team, and significant increases in the cap upcoming.

Treliving got dealt a much better hand, in large part because the GM that preceded him was much better than the GM that preceded Dubas.

That's part of why nobody takes you seriously.

"Consistent 115 point level"? They did that once in his five seasons.

 

[Gallagbi]

That's part of who nobody takes you seriously.

"Consistent 115 point level"? They did that once in his five seasons.

Using pace for the covid* shortened year you get

113 (pace), 115, 111 points for the last 3 years. I guess 110+ ppt team or averaging exactly 113 is right on the nose while "approx 115 pts" is a huge stretch

 

[Blanche Blanche]

We all know if Dubas was in charge of Matthews deal it’d be :

4 years 16M

Or 6 years but 19.7 m

Or 8 for 22m

On NHL’s article about Matthews being the one who initiated the signing to not have it linger, I don’t doubt it.

But I also think it’s cause Treliving is a real GM getting what needs to be done and not like Dubas, who had a mild chubby when the core 4 and Beiber walked Into the room.

Treliving is probably like, hey you wanna be in Toronto…? It is Toronto…

Dubas was like omg omg omg… take my money now!!

 

[notbias]

How are they getting better in the playoffs? They barely beat a team whose top two defencemen were injured, and then got steamrolled in five games, with their three highest paid players producing one goal and five assists between them.

Only someone wearing Dubas-coloured glasses could say they were better.

Wait, do injuries matter now in the playoffs? I see, the team you cheer against was advantaged this time, that's why.

"Results! Except for this time"

Typical Leaf hater.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

As long as Tavares and his crippling contract are on the team, they are in can't win now mode.

Only two more years!

Which is why keeping some prospects would have been good.

So let's dissect this. What does a ppg second liner cost or better yet does one exist? Let's say between 7 and 8 mil. So that's 3 or 4 extra million. So with that 3 or 4 million saved by getting a a ppg second line center' if one even exists cause there are none in fA and no team would trade a ppg center making 7-8 mil, how does that 3 to 4 million win us a cup?

Now this premise works on replacement of Tavares. So let's say we don't replace him and have the full 11. Who plays 2nd line center? Kampf? What assets do we have to trade to get players to fill that 11mil because there is no one in FA right now as good as Tavares.

You explain it...

 

[notdoneyet]

Using pace for the lockout shortened year you get

113 (pace), 115, 111 points for the last 3 years. I guess 110+ ppt team or averaging exactly 113 is right on the nose while "approx 115 pts" is a huge stretch

Pace is like saying if your aunt had balls she would be your uncle

Pace doesn’t mean crap. The lady 30 games of pace could mean you have a couple of major injuries, your goalie shits the bed and you miss the playoffs

Pace is just a straw man’s argument

 

[Gallagbi]

Pace is like saying if your aunt had balls she would be your uncle

Pace doesn’t mean crap. The lady 30 games of pace could mean you have a couple of major injuries, your goalie shits the bed and you miss the playoffs

Pace is just a straw man’s argument

Pace is math and that was the entire season for the year. The funny part is that pace is exactly what they played to over the next 164 games.

Pace gets wonky with outliers and poor samples, but makes perfect sense to use when averaging out shortened seasons and multiple seasons, which is what i did.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

We all know if Dubas was in charge of Matthews deal it’d be :

4 years 16M

Or 6 years but 19.7 m

Or 8 for 22m

On NHL’s article about Matthews being the one who initiated the signing to not have it linger, I don’t doubt it.

But I also think it’s cause Treliving is a real GM getting what needs to be done and not like Dubas, who had a mild chubby when the core 4 and Beiber walked Into the room.

Treliving is probably like, hey you wanna be in Toronto…? It is Toronto…

Dubas was like omg omg omg… take my money now!!

I think you need to go back and look at Tree's contract history

 

[Gabriel426]

At the end of the day, it will be the deployment of the 3rd line and who is Keefe going to put on the 3rd line.
From what Keefe or BT said earlier in the summer, it seemed like Domi will be on the 2nd line.
Personally, I think Calle-Domi-Willie should be a line together. Let Knies-JT-Robertson as another line.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Wait, do injuries matter now in the playoffs? I see, the team you cheer against was advantaged this time, that's why.

"Results! Except for this time"

Typical Leaf hater.

First, I don't cheer against anyone (maybe Boston occasionally).

Do you pretend injuries don't affect play? Then why didn't Matthews score 60 goals again this year?

Typical Dubas apologist.

 

[Leafblooded]

I say trade Marner for a haul, sign Willy, count the days down until Tavares' anchor is off the books

 

[notDatsyuk]

So let's dissect this. What does a ppg second liner cost or better yet does one exist? Let's say between 7 and 8 mil. So that's 3 or 4 extra million. So with that 3 or 4 million saved by getting a a ppg second line center' if one even exists cause there are none in fA and no team would trade a ppg center making 7-8 mil, how does that 3 to 4 million win us a cup?

Now this premise works on replacement of Tavares. So let's say we don't replace him and have the full 11. Who plays 2nd line center? Kampf? What assets do we have to trade to get players to fill that 11mil because there is no one in FA right now as good as Tavares.

You explain it...

Yes, there are a couple of posters who look at 'ppg' without understanding that half his points were from being on one of the best PPs, and the other half (at even strength) were a result of him playing with one or the other of two of the best passers and right wingers in the league.

$11M for a slow 2C we didn't need one, instead of the D and G that we did need, was a terrible move, not even taking into consideration the spiralling effect his overpayment had on the Matthews and Marner contracts.

$11M now for a player who is barely more than a 3C is an abomination.

 

[Gallagbi]

First, I don't cheer against anyone (maybe Boston occasionally).

Do you pretend injuries don't affect play? Then why didn't Matthews score 60 goals again this year?

Typical Dubas apologist.

In this thread you're arguing the Leafs are dogshit for losing a series their #1G left, playing approx half the games, and their #1C was visibly hurt in while discounting their win in the first series because the other team's #1D was banged up and #3D was hurt.

 

[Dekes For Days]

"Consistent 115 point level"? They did that once in his five seasons.

Actually, I said "consistent ~115 point level". ~ means loosely around.
Our past 3 seasons, we've played at 113, 115, and 111 point paces. That is consecutive seasons so it is consistent, and that average is 113 points, which is ~115 points.
Swing and a miss again.

 

[Its not your fault]

How are they getting better in the playoffs? They barely beat a team whose top two defencemen were injured, and then got steamrolled in five games, with their three highest paid players producing one goal and five assists between them.

Only someone wearing Dubas-coloured glasses could say they were better.

Better then what?

 

[GoonieFace]

I think you need to go back and look at Tree's contract history

It’s hard to GM a team that nobody wants to play for. You have to overpay for people to sign . Toronto sells itself, but Dumbass still just forked over all the moneys

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Now we know Mich is going to ask for the moon and to me, that means WN has got to go. Can't keep paying these guys and giving them increases with no playoff success. D is weak and I'm not even sure how to construct lines 3 and 4


Dubas sure didn't

And neither should Treliving because he has both a top 5 team in the league and a top 5 player in the world, as long as Matthews is on this team the Leafs need to be all in.

That's not to say if you can get better and reload the prospect pool you shouldn't do it because you should.

Case in point acquiring Bertuzzi and Domi and drafting Easton Cowan.

The Leafs are significantly better on the wings than they were when Kerfoot and Bunting were in the top 6 and they didn't have to move a 1st to do it, than great I'd prefer that.

At the same time let's say you have a deadline deal on the table that sees you land Hanifin, or Backlund, hell maybe even both, you would only need about a million dollars in cap room at the deadline with retention.

Let's say you have that deal on the table at the deadline.

You don't let a 2024 1st rounder get in the way of that, you don't let ANY prospect get in the way of that.

If Philadelphia wants to move Hart or Konecy you don't let a 1st round pick get in the way of that especially with Nylander status up in the air, Konecy isn't a rental.

Neither is Hart, but Samsonov probably is.

If you can get better and reload the prospect pool by all means do it.

But don't let ANY pick or prospect get in the way of getting better

 

[PromisedLand]

 

[notbias]

We agree McDavid is overrated?

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

It’s hard to GM a team that nobody wants to play for. You have to overpay for people to sign . Toronto sells itself, but Dumbass still just forked over all the moneys

A lot of players refuse to sign in Toronto too. Some of the highest taxes in the league, 100 media members asking dumb or provoking questions after games, media members like Simmons writing B.S. articles about you, always in the spotlight and a lot of unruly fans

 

[WF19]

Need some real core players show up in crunch time playoff hero Ryan Smyth style

I'm telling ya guys. Look what Bertuzzi did for Boston in the playoffs. I mean the Bruins shit the bed but Bert was their best player. Guy is built for the playoffs.