Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[hamzarocks]

2019 Boston R1: 5 pts in 7 games. Leafs lose in 7

2020 CBJ Playins - 3 pts in 5 games Leafs lose in 5

2021 Habs R1 - Injured in game 1, sits out rest of the series, leafs lose in 7

2022 Bolts R1 - 6 pts in 7 games , leafs lose in 7 again

2023 Bolts R1 - 7 pts in 7, scores the clutch goal, the only year we win a series in an era where we expected multiple cups

2023 Panthers R2 - 1 pt in 5 games, he disapears and is our worst player most games. Cost us the series with several chances chokes in game 7

He has failed 4 out of 5 series he has played as a leaf, with 1 series being N/A since he was hurt.

Terrible performance and production at 11M. Biggest reason the core has failed.

Dude is a loser, can't elevate his game or his linemates and his bad deal grossed up the big 3s deals and ego, leading to the epic failures of Dubas era leafs

are you talking about McDavid? it's a team sport. i remember his goal got us th the 2nd round and one of those years a recovering alcoholic kneed him in the head

Don't be a dummy, Mcdavid is better than any one to play in the NHL except for 99 and 66

He has the 3rd or 4th highest ppg in the playoffs ever. If we had him now instead of Matthews we likely have a cup maybe two

If we had only won the 2015 lotto, get Mcdavid, build around him+ nylander + Matthews/laine/tkachuk and sray away from Tavares.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Correct but let's not kid ourselves, other than Rielly and maybe Willie, our core has not performed up to expectations in the playoffs. If you want and get all the money, man up and stop disappearing in the playoffs.

Isn't it simply amazing how the core 4 want all the money and then when we lose in the playoffs...the excuses about depth come to the forefront and the criticism's of the bottom 6 not scoring to "Help" out the team are screeched from the mountain tops?

It's really simple...if you want most of the money...you have to produce most of the points....in the playoffs too.

 

[hamzarocks]

first they laugh at you, then they fight you, then they try to get you committed, finally they join you.
you are on the fighting me stage,

Your fighting with yourself, in denial and hooping your daddy dubas had just gotten it to work some way some how

 

[TheRumble]

It's really simple...if you want most of the money...you have to produce most of the points....in the playoffs too.

This actually isn't true. Players arent paid a salary in the playoffs.

Here's a guy who got $9.5 million per year for these playoff stats

27 games, 15 points, 52 penalty minutes. Who do you think that player is? It's Matthew Tkachuk.

He only had his first good playoff the year after signing that deal. He was actually a massive playoff bum before it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The core may have excellent talent, but it is flawed. That’s not what I “think”. It’s what they have proven by failing to win when it matters most.

Every player is flawed in some way, but it is an excellent core of players, and it is very possible to win the cup with them. You may think otherwise, but nothing has been proven otherwise. That's an emotional belief, not a factual statement.

I didn't mention your fallen idol's name.

Dubas is no idol of mine, but he was very much a key part of the discussion you joined. In fact, the original referenced quote was "Dubas handed Tre a hand grenade". So I was just pointing out that in the context of the discussion, your answer didn't even work in the first place.

Based on the undisputed reports that Shanahan called the core players to let them know they won’t be traded before he hired Treliving, I think it’s a pretty reasonable guess that he wasn’t allowed to trade them. Though, even if he was allowed to trade a core piece, their contract statuses made it nearly impossible anyway.

None of Matthews, Marner, or Nylander had trade restrictions. If Treliving wasn't allowed to trade them, that would mean nobody has been allowed to trade them, and it makes a whole lot of arguments over the past 7 years look even sillier. Either way, far from a hand grenade to have some of the best players in the world.

 

[Apex Predator]

Domi just scored! He’s doing a great job again!

 

[Dreakmur]

Every player is flawed in some way, but it is an excellent core of players, and it is very possible to win the cup with them. You may think otherwise, but nothing has been proven otherwise. That's an emotional belief, not a factual statement.

The results are a fact.

Dubas is no idol of mine, but he was very much a key part of the discussion you joined. In fact, the original referenced quote was "Dubas handed Tre a hand grenade". So I was just pointing out that in the context of the discussion, your answer didn't even work in the first place.

He is definitely your chosen deity.

None of Matthews, Marner, or Nylander had trade restrictions. If Treliving wasn't allowed to trade them, that would mean nobody has been allowed to trade them, and it makes a whole lot of arguments over the past 7 years look even sillier. Either way, far from a hand grenade to have some of the best players in the world.

They all had upcoming restrictions and short window to move.

 

[LeafEgo]

There was enough cap space for both Lou and Dubas to win around the core 4 + Rielly. Especially Lou since 3 amigos were all on ELC. Dubas...don't even know what to say about his building around the core.

Making Shanny the scapegoat makes no sense. You don't get rid of Matthews Marner Nylander and Tavares. You get rid of the idiot who can't win playoff series with that core and surrounds them with scrubs

I'm fine with everything Shanny except for the fact that he risked the most promising team in the cap era to chase magic beans that turned out to be...magic beans. One of the dumbest decisions ever made in the world of business. That will forever be inescapable.

Claiming Lou had enough to win is cheerleading what destroyed us. That 'core' is still not ready to this day. Lou and co were working on that with tactical patience until we did a 180 on strategic process for giddy hopes and dreams and ever since we've been that team that just seems to be broken for some reason.

 

[Dragao6]

Can I ask do these players do a physical when signing a contract? And if so what kind of physical?

I know in soccer the physical is pretty intense and sometimes deal fall because it’s failed.

We have a goalie and now this klingberg guy that apparently has had these injuries his entire career and he’s now out for season because of it? What’s the point of these physicals?

 

[All Mod Cons]

Can I ask do these players do a physical when signing a contract? And if so what kind of physical?

I know in soccer the physical is pretty intense and sometimes deal fall because it’s failed.

We have a goalie and now this klingberg guy that apparently has had these injuries his entire career and he’s now out for season because of it? What’s the point of these physicals?

Interesting question. Whoever it was that OK'd Kase carrying on, was out to lunch.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Domi just scored! He’s doing a great job again!

Lafferty scored again. He sucks again.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The results are a fact.

The outcomes are a fact. The emotionally-driven conclusions that you have arbitrarily drawn from them are not.

He is definitely your chosen deity.

Wrong again. Your vilification of him seems to have led you to confuse an honest, proper evaluation with "deification".

They all had upcoming restrictions and short window to move.

All 3 of them had no restrictions and the ability to be moved. It is very unlikely that any GM would want to hurt the team by trading them away, but the ability to do so was there.
Either way, far from a hand grenade to have some of the best players in the world, so your statement both wasn't true and didn't fit in the context of the discussion.

 

[Dekes For Days]

1-bunting if it was so easy to find player underpaid like him, why did he didn't find more than 1 player like that in 5 year?

Well, first off, he got a lot more cheap, quality depth than just Bunting, even though that one specific spot only had to be re-filled once in his tenure. Bunting, Mikheyev, Spezza, Kampf, Jarnkrok, Kase, etc., just to name a few from free agent signings alone. But no, it's not "easy to find". It takes work, and a good GM. We had somebody that was good at finding it, and many here didn't appreciate it like they should have. It's concerning that the new guy seems to have fallen back on the old Leaf tradition of YOLOing it and throwing money at flashy names, with no real consideration for their fit or consequences.

2-you talked about klinberg but gustafsson is even worst defensivly than klinberg.

Except that's not true. Klingberg is objectively one of the worst defensemen in the league defensively right now.

we all know we didn't sign him for his defensive ability but still was good enough to help Dallas reaching a stanley cup final playing over 23 minute/game

That Klingberg hasn't existed for a while now.

3- even his half of those d resign, still a better list than last off-season whobwas extremely weak...

By the time re-signings are done, it will likely look pretty similar to last offseason.

4- in playoff it was not just against florida but we saw it even more vs tampa ( but still saw those issue vs florida)

Oh, you mean the series we won? Your description doesn't fit either series. Was the team perfect? Of course not. No team is perfect. There are always things you're less good at, and potential areas to exploit. But this "issue" has gotten wildly exaggerated. And fact remains that if Treliving did want to improve transition, Klingberg is a weird target since that's not really his offensive area of expertise, and you can't just overpay and insert Klingberg into a spot previously filled with a complete opposite defenseman, make no other changes to the defense or support around him, and decrease the transition, defensive, and PK abilities of the forward group and call it a day.

 

[Racer88]

are you talking about McDavid? it's a team sport. i remember his goal got us th the 2nd round and one of those years a recovering alcoholic kneed him in the head

Who says he’s recovering……..lol

 

[thusk]

Well, first off, he got a lot more cheap, quality depth than just Bunting, even though that one specific spot only had to be re-filled once in his tenure. Bunting, Mikheyev, Spezza, Kampf, Jarnkrok, Kase, etc., just to name a few from free agent signings alone. But no, it's not "easy to find". It takes work, and a good GM. We had somebody that was good at finding it, and many here didn't appreciate it like they should have. It's concerning that the new guy seems to have fallen back on the old Leaf tradition of YOLOing it and throwing money at flashy names, with no real consideration for their fit or consequences.

jarnkrok is not a cheap player

kampf was good sign, not necessairly what i considerated like cheap player

Except that's not true. Klingberg is objectively one of the worst defensemen in the league defensively right now.

That Klingberg hasn't existed for a while now.

just last season when he leave anaheim for minnesota he did good thing with minnesota so if its your definition of a While... okay...

By the time re-signings are done, it will likely look pretty similar to last offseason.

had 1 top 4 dman available, will not be really hard to beat

Oh, you mean the series we won? Your description doesn't fit either series. Was the team perfect? Of course not. No team is perfect. There are always things you're less good at, and potential areas to exploit. But this "issue" has gotten wildly exaggerated. And fact remains that if Treliving did want to improve transition, Klingberg is a weird target since that's not really his offensive area of expertise, and you can't just overpay and insert Klingberg into a spot previously filled with a complete opposite defenseman, make no other changes to the defense or support around him, and decrease the transition, defensive, and PK abilities of the forward group and call it a day.

the fact leafs won that series doesn't mean leafs played great, it was the worst series leafs play last 4 years. Leafs had been totally outplayed but was opportunist.

but explain me how alast 2 playoff n healthy leafs had been as bad defensivly in playoff than what they are right now with multiple injury if they should be much better in that area? the answer i already telling you, transition who finally hurt leafs defensivly

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

This actually isn't true. Players arent paid a salary in the playoffs.

Here's a guy who got $9.5 million per year for these playoff stats

27 games, 15 points, 52 penalty minutes. Who do you think that player is? It's Matthew Tkachuk.

He only had his first good playoff the year after signing that deal. He was actually a massive playoff bum before it.

They might not get paid extra in the playoffs...but they do influence what level of quality players you can have on the playoff roster by taking up so much cap room. So, they do make the roster weaker and thus are responsible in large part for the playoffs record.

 

[Dekes For Days]

jarnkrok is not a cheap player
kampf was good sign, not necessairly what i considerated like cheap player

You named Ritchie in your list, and both were cheaper than that. Either way, the ability to find cheap, efficient depth went really underappreciated. So many people hyperfocused on the flashy numbers of our core, but depth is where most GMs waste the most money.

just last season when he leave anaheim for minnesota he did good thing with minnesota so if its your definition of a While... okay...

He was bad in Minnesota, after being horrific in Anaheim.

had 1 top 4 dman available, will not be really hard to beat

That's not only not true, but also what people always say about UFA groups a year out, and it always shrinks to a fraction of what was initially poised to be available.

the fact leafs won that series doesn't mean leafs played great, it was the worst series leafs play last 4 years. Leafs had been totally outplayed but was opportunist.

The Leafs weren't "totally outplayed". It was pretty 50-50, with giant swings in momentum. It was probably the worst series we've had in years, but that says more about how much we've outplayed the other team's skaters in our recent series.

but explain me how alast 2 playoff n healthy leafs had been as bad defensivly in playoff than what they are right now with multiple injury if they should be much better in that area?

I'm not really sure what you're trying to ask, but our defensive play this year has been significantly worse than any recent regular season or playoffs.

 

[thusk]

You named Ritchie in your list, and both were cheaper than that. Either way, the ability to find cheap, efficient depth went really underappreciated. So many people hyperfocused on the flashy numbers of our core, but depth is where most GMs waste the most money.

and ritchie cost asset just to move him out...

He was bad in Minnesota, after being horrific in Anaheim.

17 goal for 11 against 3 goal 10 assist... rate of 51 pts +24 in 82 game pace... not my definition of being bad.

That's not only not true, but also what people always say about UFA groups a year out, and it always shrinks to a fraction of what was initially poised to be available.

The Leafs weren't "totally outplayed". It was pretty 50-50, with giant swings in momentum. It was probably the worst series we've had in years, but that says more about how much we've outplayed the other team's skaters in our recent series.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to ask, but our defensive play this year has been significantly worse than any recent regular season or playoffs.

2022 was close of a 50-50 series

2023 was a complete domination by tampa... we clearly didn't watch the same serie

game 3 1st 30 minute was 50-50, rest of the gams was a pure domination by tampa with leafs unable to do anything+ samsonov playong his best hockey of season and finally vasi gave a pretty bad rebound from corner and leafs tie it. Ot completly dominated by tampa 1st 50 minutes... toronto had been extremely opportunism.

gm 4 complete domination by tampa biggeat part of this game

gm 6 samsonov just stole it

 

[William Johnson]

The outcomes are a fact. The emotionally-driven conclusions that you have arbitrarily drawn from them are not.

Wrong again. Your vilification of him seems to have led you to confuse an honest, proper evaluation with "deification".

All 3 of them had no restrictions and the ability to be moved. It is very unlikely that any GM would want to hurt the team by trading them away, but the ability to do so was there.
Either way, far from a hand grenade to have some of the best players in the world, so your statement both wasn't true and didn't fit in the context of the discussion.

It's moments like these that remind me that no-one should take any of this stuff too seriously because, ultimately, anonymous posters have no real accountability. Can anyone imagine if the following was published under someone's real name?

- On the day Treliving was hired: "Lol. Back to the clown show it is I guess."
- 10 games into the season: "I've kept a very open mind about Treliving."
- After an epic 100+ posts in this thread uniformly criticising Treliving and defending Dubas: "an honest, proper evaluation".

I've been out of the media game for decades so maybe that's why this stuff makes me laugh.

 

[ULF_55]

Isn't this a Treliving thread?

Enough derailing it with Dubas archeology.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Isn't this a Treliving thread?

Enough derailing it with Dubas archeology.

I mean Dubas ruined this franchise and Treliving is making it worse

 

[Stephen]

I mean, the two topics do relate to one another. Comparing him to his predecessor isn't ridiculous.

Man, I would accept a Treliving firing today if it meant that we didn't have to talk about Kyle Dubas anymore.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Man, I would accept a Treliving firing today if it meant that we didn't have to talk about Kyle Dubas anymore.

I would punt him because I really didn't want him in the first place, but ya.

 

[Gilmour1996]

Not a Tre fan at all but if someone magically gave him 10M cap space to upgrade the team, Matthews/Nylander/Marner/Tavares would still take turns making defensive mistakes that would keep games close or outright lose. The coach would also do his share to hold the team back.

 

[ACC1224]

Man, I would accept a Treliving firing today if it meant that we didn't have to talk about Kyle Dubas anymore.

Amen to that.