Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[Gallagbi]

Based on the undisputed reports that Shanahan called the core players to let them know they won’t be traded before he hired Treliving, I think it’s a pretty reasonable guess that he wasn’t allowed to trade them. Though, even if he was allowed to trade a core piece, their contract statuses made it nearly impossible anyway.

Feels like their contract statuses were pretty close to perfect for movement if it was on the table. More term is generally tougher to move and you have a pair entering their last year and another with 2 years left. Youre also taking over before UFA hits, so there's more roster flexibility than in season

 

[Leafblooded]

Plz change the title, it's lying

 

[thusk]

Leave it to @Mess to suggest the GM responsible for the worst contract in the league because he panicked is showing great restaint by letting our leading scorer enter the year as a pending UFA when his value seems to be rising.


From a value perspective Holl, Soupy, Samsonov, Kampf all seemed to be good value finds. Bunting is certainly the best, but im hoping Tre and our future GMs can find some value like those names. Maybe Benoit turns into bona-fide NHLer

holl was in alreadybsince 2015

Is this true? I am pretty sure Klingberg is the worst D defensively.

This year Klingberg is 8th for xGA/60, Gustafsson is 211th.
Last year Klingberg was 2nd in xGA/60, Gustafsson was 145th.
The year before Klingberg was 72nd xGA/60, Gustafsson was 190th.

Gustafsson is not great defensively, but Klingberg is terrible.

klinberg was playing in a top 4 against top opposite player vs gustafsson against worst matchup ..

its exactly like every one who said last year than toronto should trade rielly because rielly was looking so bad and Sandin was looking so much better defensivly by being overprotected

 

[Dreakmur]

Feels like their contract statuses were pretty close to perfect for movement if it was on the table. More term is generally tougher to move and you have a pair entering their last year and another with 2 years left. Youre also taking over before UFA hits, so there's more roster flexibility than in season

Tavares NMC. Rielly NMC.

Marner and Matthews have NMCs about to kick in. Nylander has trade restrictions about to kick in. Both Matthews and Nylander are on their last years before UFA, so no team is giving up full value unless extensions are included.

Marner was the only real option, and he had a few weeks to get that done… if he was even allowed.

 

[Gallagbi]

holl was in alreadybsince 2015

I thought he came to us through an AHL contract where Dubas was the GM with the Marlies at the time, but i could be wrong

Tavares NMC. Rielly NMC.

Marner and Matthews have NMCs about to kick in. Nylander has trade restrictions about to kick in. Both Matthews and Nylander are on their last years before UFA, so no team is giving up full value unless extensions are included.

Marner was the only real option, and he had a few weeks to get that done… if he was even allowed.

Matthews and Marner with no trade protection, Willy with a limited NTC if anything. I dont think any of them are movable today than then, do you?

Agreed on Rielly and JT, but i dont think anyone was ever expecting them to move.

 

[thusk]

I thought he came to us through an AHL contract where Dubas was the GM with the Marlies at the time, but i could be wrong


Matthews and Marner with no trade protection, Willy with a limited NTC if anything. I dont think any of them are movable today than then, do you?

Agreed on Rielly and JT, but i dont think anyone was ever expecting them to move.

in the 1st season yeah but he signed a NHL contract in 2016-2017 and an other one in 2017-2018 under lou.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Lou and Dubas come from the same team. They both suck. Treliving will either be a good GM or join them in the suck department. Time will tell

*Cap era Lou. I like Lou before dinosaur times

 

[Gallagbi]

in the 1st season yeah but he signed a NHL contract in 2016-2017 and an other one in 2017-2018 under lou.

Gotcha, so Dubas brought him to the org and Lou signed him to an NHL deal after Holl earned his spot. Then Dubas eventually promoted him to full time NHLer and locked him up for a a solid deal.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Feels like their contract statuses were pretty close to perfect for movement if it was on the table. More term is generally tougher to move and you have a pair entering their last year and another with 2 years left. Youre also taking over before UFA hits, so there's more roster flexibility than in season

Even if Shanahan didn’t directly prohibit the trading of the core by personally promising them as widely reported, Treliving barely had any time to work with to make a franchise altering move of that magnitude. Not going to blame him entirely for that but I am still upset that he couldn’t get a deal done to move one of them out.

Dubas screwed this team when he got his cheeks clapped handing out those contracts and then screwed us again on his way out by putting us in an awkward position with little time.

I’m no fan of what Treliving has done either. He’s basically just following the Dubas blueprint so far of trying to surround the core with garbage and hoping something clicks.

 

[Apex Predator]

Lou and Dubas come from the same team. They both suck. Treliving will either be a good GM or join them in the suck department. Time will tell

*Cap era Lou. I like Lou before dinosaur times

Took 106 pages but this right here sums up everything. Thank you Hoglund! You the real MVP.

 

[notbias]

holl was in alreadybsince 2015


klinberg was playing in a top 4 against top opposite player vs gustafsson against worst matchup ..

its exactly like every one who said last year than toronto should trade rielly because rielly was looking so bad and Sandin was looking so much better defensivly by being overprotected

He is still 8th worst this year being sheltered and 2nd last year... regardless of who he is playing against, that is really bad.

I'd be curious to hear one argument for how he is better than Gustafsson defensively.

Neither is good.

 

[Gallagbi]

Even if Shanahan didn’t directly prohibit the trading of the core by personally promising them as widely reported, Treliving barely had any time to work with to make a franchise altering move of that magnitude. Not going to blame him entirely for that but I am still upset that he couldn’t get a deal done to move one of them out.

A month seems reasonable to make a move and generally youre coming into a role like this with a plan.

He may not have been allowed to, which is a fair assumption, but I expect he was on board with that plan when hired.

It is interesting there was a report or two that Dubas was working on a move of the core when he was fired. Personally I expected change this summer.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

A month seems reasonable to make a move and generally youre coming into a role like this with a plan.

He may not have been allowed to, which is a fair assumption, but I expect he was on board with that plan when hired.

It is interesting there was a report or two that Dubas was working on a move of the core when he was fired. Personally I expected change this summer.

I think we would have ended up making a trade we regretted with that month’s worth of time we had. Their salaries would have required lots of moving pieces and perhaps a third team to be involved to get it done. Don’t think a month is enough time to make the potential best value trade and get all that sorted out.

I thought a change was for sure coming this summer too. Treliving came in and basically just stayed the course, not even changing coaches of all things. What was even the point of changing GMs aside from their financial tiff

 

[Gallagbi]

I think we would have ended up making a trade we regretted with that month’s worth of time we had. Their salaries would have required lots of moving pieces and perhaps a third team to be involved to get it done. Don’t think a month is enough time to make the potential best value trade and get all that sorted out.

I thought a change was for sure coming this summer too. Treliving came in and basically just stayed the course, not even changing coaches of all things.

The draft feels like the best time to make that move. Before UFA, expiring contracts in a week, ability to exceed the cap.

How much time do you think is necessary to make these type of moves and when is the right time for it?

 

[Dreakmur]

Matthews and Marner with no trade protection, Willy with a limited NTC if anything. I dont think any of them are movable today than then, do you?

They are less movable today, but they were still very difficult to move in the summer.

 

[Gallagbi]

They are less movable today, but they were still very difficult to move in the summer.

Do you think there will ever be a better time to move them under Tre?

 

[BrannigansLaw]

The draft feels like the best time to make that move. Before UFA, expiring contracts in a week, ability to exceed the cap.

How much time do you think is necessary to make these type of moves and when is the right time for it?

I’m not sure tbh with you. These would be trades that would have huge implications for the direction of our franchise. A month feels rushed. I feel trades like these are negotiated over the course of months unless a player is forcing their way out like Tkachuk did.

Of course, we didn’t have that luxury with the NMC timings.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

There was enough cap space for both Lou and Dubas to win around the core 4 + Rielly. Especially Lou since 3 amigos were all on ELC. Dubas...don't even know what to say about his building around the core.

Making Shanny the scapegoat makes no sense. You don't get rid of Matthews Marner Nylander and Tavares. You get rid of the idiot who can't win playoff series with that core and surrounds them with scrubs

 

[ToneDog]

I think we would have ended up making a trade we regretted with that month’s worth of time we had. Their salaries would have required lots of moving pieces and perhaps a third team to be involved to get it done. Don’t think a month is enough time to make the potential best value trade and get all that sorted out.

I thought a change was for sure coming this summer too. Treliving came in and basically just stayed the course, not even changing coaches of all things. What was even the point of changing GMs aside from their financial tiff

We get a fresh set of eyes and ideas. I had had enough of watching the previous GM fix his mistakes and bleed picks. If we only had more time to find a replacement for Shannahan.

 

[Dreakmur]

Do you think there will ever be a better time to move them under Tre?

Nope. That still doesn't change the fact that the situation made it almost impossible to get anything resembling fair value.

I also don't think it matters, since Shanahan wouldn't allow them to be moved anyway.

 

[Gallagbi]

I’m not sure tbh with you. These would be trades that would have huge implications for the direction of our franchise. A month feels rushed. I feel trades like these are negotiated over the course of months unless a player is forcing their way out like Tkachuk did.

So our last game was May 12, Tre was hired May 31st. Cup was won June 13th. Draft was June 28-29.

I think we agree the best time to move them is the summer. Im not sure it should or even could take much longer

 

[ToneDog]

There was enough cap space for both Lou and Dubas to win around the core 4 + Rielly. Especially Lou since 3 amigos were all on ELC. Dubas...don't even know what to say about his building around the core.

Making Shanny the scapegoat makes no sense. You don't get rid of Matthews Marner Nylander and Tavares. You get rid of the idiot who can't win playoff series with that core and surrounds them with scrubs

Correct but let's not kid ourselves, other than Rielly and maybe Willie, our core has not performed up to expectations in the playoffs. If you want and get all the money, man up and stop disappearing in the playoffs.

 

[Gallagbi]

Nope. That still doesn't change the fact that the situation made it almost impossible to get anything resembling fair value.

It doesnt feel impossible at all to me, there was a window we let pass.

Shanny was very likely a roadblock, but I expect that was known when Tre took the job

 

[hamzarocks]

Top 50 scorer==suffocating. you people are spoiled

Top 50 scorer while being tied for 7th highest Cap hit with Doughty

In the playoffs hes a 55-60 pt low end 2C

He is a huge anchor and has failed nearly every series for us to lead us as expected

 

[Leafidelity]

He is a huge anchor and has failed nearly every series for us to lead us as expected