Brad Treliving- 1st year complete.

[TMLBlueandWhite]

We just don't have the assets to make those kinds of moves. Unless we're going to trade Matthew Knies or Easton Cowan, there isn't a whole lot of value that isn't limited with NMCs. It really is a sad state. How Dubas turned so much into this mess is shocking.

They can't even trade Cowan and Knies for ready-now stars anyway

Because they can't afford the salaries of anyone good. So they sign the run down beaten and battered body of Chris Tanev instead. Now they have an injury prone 1RHD on the decline to go along with their injury prone unproven starting goaltender.

Gambling both health and performance holds up on two of the most important positions in the game.

 

[notbias]

We just don't have the assets to make those kinds of moves. Unless we're going to trade Matthew Knies or Easton Cowan, there isn't a whole lot of value that isn't limited with NMCs. It really is a sad state. How Dubas turned so much into this hot mess in just 5 years is shocking.

Both the players traded have trade protection, they just traded them in the first year of their contract before it kicked in... so basically Tampa signed some trash contracts and then had to sell low on each player before they were stuck with them because they gave them NTCs.

So, no clue what you're going on about.

Treliving also had a window to trade players and didn't (I don't blame him).

Which star players don't have a NMC/NTC?

They can't even trade Cowan and Knies for ready-now stars anyway

Because they can't afford the salaries of anyone good. So they sign the run down beaten and battered body of Chris Tanev instead. Now they have an injury prone 1RHD on the decline to go along with their injury prone unproven starting goaltender.

Gambling both health and performance holds up on two of the most important positions in the game.

They have plenty of cap space currently.

 

[Dreakmur]

Both the players traded have trade protection, they just traded them in the first year of their contract before it kicked in... so basically Tampa signed some trash contracts and then had to sell low on each player before they were stuck with them because they gave them NTCs.

So, no clue what you're going on about.

Treliving also had a window to trade players and didn't (I don't blame him).

Which star players don't have a NMC/NTC?

You’re confused by my statement that we have very little flexibility due to a lack of valuable tradable assets?

 

[Nineteen67]

You’re confused by my statement that we have very little flexibility due to a lack of valuable tradable assets?

They have valuable trade assets, they just don’t have the cajones to try and move one - Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Rielly, Knies, Cowan, Minten

 

[notbias]

You’re confused by my statement that we have very little flexibility due to a lack of valuable tradable assets?

You're confused by the term valuable tradeable assets.

Cowan, Minten, Greb, Niemela, Danford, Knies, Robertson, and 2x 1st.

I'm sure McMann, Woll, and McCabe all have value too.

They have valuable tradable assets, what they don't have is stars without NMCs, which is the case for most teams.

What stars don't have NMCs/NTCs? I'm sure there are some, I am just not sure who.

 

[Nineteen67]

You're confused by the term valuable tradeable assets.

Cowan, Minten, Greb, Niemela, Danford, Knies, Robertson, and 2x 1st.

I'm sure McMann, Woll, and McCabe all have value too.

They have valuable tradable assets, what they don't have is stars without NMCs, which is the case for most teams.

What stars don't have NMCs/NTCs? I'm sure there are some, I am just not sure who.

~ 300 players have movement clauses. Somehow they need to fix that in the next CBA.

 

[Da Mash]

They have valuable trade assets, they just don’t have the cajones to try and move one - Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Rielly, Knies, Cowan, Minten

Tell me how a GM moves Marner, Nylander and Mathews with their NMC?

Punish them ? Threaten them? Tre just gave them NMC and Marner next contract here if he wants to resign will probably have a NMC too.
You dont move Cowan.....he may be a future star....and I dont know but does Rielly also have a NMC? If not...he is the one i would target ...and maybe Minten

~ 300 players have movement clauses. Somehow they need to fix that in the next CBA.

CBA?

Players NHLPA will never agree to that.....they already get the shaft with this current CBA

And its not the players fault.....the GM's offer it....

Cant blame the players for GM mismanagement of the team. They know the rules and what type of contracts they can offer.

 

[Nineteen67]

Tell me how a GM moves Marner, Nylander and Mathews with their NMC?

Punish them ? Threaten them? Tre just gave them NMC and Marner next contract here if he wants to resign will probably have a NMC too.
You dont move Cowan.....he may be a future star....and I dont know but does Rielly also have a NMC? If not...he is the one i would target ...and maybe Minten



CBA?

Players NHLPA will never agree to that.....they already get the shaft with this current CBA

And its not the players fault.....the GM's offer it....

Cant blame the players for GM mismanagement of the team. They know the rules and what type of contracts they can offer.

Don’t know how you can trade them, but they are assets, and if there’s a will there’s often a way.

Comparatively NHL players don’t make enough money and moving is a pain so it’s not easy and I get why players want no trades, but maybe there’s benefit for the owners to increase the HRR % that goes to the players as a concession.

In my thinking, trades and moves create excitement and interest from fans and probably affects revenue.

 

[Da Mash]

Don’t know how you can trade them, but they are assets, and if there’s a will there’s often a way.

Comparatively NHL players don’t make enough money and moving is a pain so it’s not easy and I get why players want no trades, but maybe there’s benefit for the owners to increase the HRR % that goes to the players as a concession.

In my thinking, trades and moves create excitement and interest from fans and probably affects revenue.

We’re talking about Bettman and the NHL

They are more concerned with making money than to make the game more exciting. Owners want to make as much as they can.

It’s a shame but that’s the NHL

Why do you think they won’t make the ice surface bigger? Better for the product on the ice and for skilled players to shine like the Olympics but the owners don’t want to lose money if they take seats away.

The NHLPA did the players no favors and looks at the bums running discipline.

NHL like promoting goon hockey and crosschecks and claim it’s “heart”

Only sport that changes rules in playoffs to promote goons instead of their stars.

 

[myleafs]

Tbh I don’t really know where to put this so this is the best I could think off

According to dreger, bertuzzi is willing to take less on more term, if that is the case, and we still don’t sign him, then shanahan treliving, and all of mlse can go screw themselves.

Who gives a flying f about the last couple years, our “window” (if you can even call it that) is this Matthews contract, after that the amigos will be over 30 and production will fall of

Not signing Bert would be the last straw for you? Meh...he sucked ass for half the season, played better the 2nd half when moved up the lineup...same as Domi...once both were given a bigger role they were better, but Bert is meh for me. He is willing to go to the front of the net and take abuse which we have been in short supply but overall 5+m for him seems way too much, especially long term.

 

[Dreakmur]

You're confused by the term valuable tradeable assets.

Cowan, Minten, Greb, Niemela, Danford, Knies, Robertson, and 2x 1st.

First of all, when I say tradable, I don't just mean we could trade them, but also that we're likely to get "fair" value. Players who are in positions of need hold more value to us, and other teams are not likely going to value them as much as we do.

Second, everyone has picks, and most have more than us. Danford's value is less than the pick that was just used on him, which makes him pretty much untradable right now.


Minten is a recent 2nd round pick who's offensive game has not progressed (statistically) very much since being drafted. He's almost a sure-fire NHLer, but he's looking like he'll never have the offense to be a top-6er. We also have a desperate need for centers, and he's the only notable C prospect we have. Other teams just aren't going to offer the premium value we would need.

Neimela is a somewhat recent 3rd round pick who has developed well lately. He's looking like an actual future NHLer, but not a particularly high end one. He does have some value, but he's probably another year away, and won't likely ever be a top-4 guy. Also, like Minten, he's in a position of desperate need for us.

Grebyonkin, I will agree, could have some good value. We also have lots of wingers, so he's expendable.

Robertson may have some value, and he's certainly expendable. I'm just not sure how much another team would pay for him. I'm sure lots of teams would take a chance if the price was right, but nobody is paying a premium for this guy.

I'm sure McMann, Woll, and McCabe all have value too.

Woll's and McCabe's contracts are far too valuable to trade.

McMann wouldn't have much value.

 

[Nineteen67]

We’re talking about Bettman and the NHL

They are more concerned with making money than to make the game more exciting. Owners want to make as much as they can.

It’s a shame but that’s the NHL

Why do you think they won’t make the ice surface bigger? Better for the product on the ice and for skilled players to shine like the Olympics but the owners don’t want to lose money if they take seats away.

The NHLPA did the players no favors and looks at the bums running discipline.

NHL like promoting goon hockey and crosschecks and claim it’s “heart”

Only sport that changes rules in playoffs to promote goons instead of their stars.

The owners are a hinderance and are their own worst enemy. I don’t know if it’s possible but what if a finance person showed the owners that 45% of 115 is better than 50% 100 and that creating player movement is one method to increase revenues. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t, but creating interest has to be a net positive.

I’ve never seen the NHL promote goons in the playoffs. One thing they do well is let the players do what it takes to get their names on the Cup. Hopefully that doesn’t change in my lifetime. Would you rather see the names Tkachuk and Bennet or Panarin engraved on the Cup this year? That’s an easy choice.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The owners are a hinderance and are their own worst enemy. I don’t know if it’s possible but what if a finance person showed the owners that 45% of 115 is better than 50% 100 and that creating player movement is one method to increase revenues. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t, but creating interest has to be a net positive.

I’ve never seen the NHL promote goons in the playoffs. One thing they do well is let the players do what it takes to get their names on the Cup. Hopefully that doesn’t change in my lifetime. Would you rather see the names Tkachuk and Bennet or Panarin engraved on the Cup this year? That’s an easy choice.

Gotta think more player movement would result in more jersey sales too.

 

[notbias]

First of all, when I say tradable, I don't just mean we could trade them, but also that we're likely to get "fair" value. Players who are in positions of need hold more value to us, and other teams are not likely going to value them as much as we do.

Second, everyone has picks, and most have more than us. Danford's value is less than the pick that was just used on him, which makes him pretty much untradable right now.


Minten is a recent 2nd round pick who's offensive game has not progressed (statistically) very much since being drafted. He's almost a sure-fire NHLer, but he's looking like he'll never have the offense to be a top-6er. We also have a desperate need for centers, and he's the only notable C prospect we have. Other teams just aren't going to offer the premium value we would need.

Neimela is a somewhat recent 3rd round pick who has developed well lately. He's looking like an actual future NHLer, but not a particularly high end one. He does have some value, but he's probably another year away, and won't likely ever be a top-4 guy. Also, like Minten, he's in a position of desperate need for us.

Grebyonkin, I will agree, could have some good value. We also have lots of wingers, so he's expendable.

Robertson may have some value, and he's certainly expendable. I'm just not sure how much another team would pay for him. I'm sure lots of teams would take a chance if the price was right, but nobody is paying a premium for this guy.



Woll's and McCabe's contracts are far too valuable to trade.

McMann wouldn't have much value.

If we want to land good players, the trade may hurt.

I disagree with some analysis of prospects.

I agree that some players have more value to us, but the former GM prioritized keeping our prospects over picks, that's why we are short picks, but have prospects to trade.

We can grab some good players with what we have.

 

[myleafs]

We’re talking about Bettman and the NHL

They are more concerned with making money than to make the game more exciting. Owners want to make as much as they can.

It’s a shame but that’s the NHL

Why do you think they won’t make the ice surface bigger? Better for the product on the ice and for skilled players to shine like the Olympics but the owners don’t want to lose money if they take seats away.

The NHLPA did the players no favors and looks at the bums running discipline.

NHL like promoting goon hockey and crosschecks and claim it’s “heart”

Only sport that changes rules in playoffs to promote goons instead of their stars.

What goons were in the finals? The way the playoffs are played is what makes the cup the hardest championship to win. How can you not have enjoyed the playoffs this year? You want it to be easier and softer? Please don't take away the way its played so the ice capades crew (and marner) will be happy. Oh and by the way , the stars didn't seem to mind it and actually thrived...I mean, not our stars, but the real stars, not the paper tiger ones.

 

[rumman]

I think it’s only fair that he basically took a season to evaluate how badly Dubas messed this team up. Hopefully going forward Tre can start to repair the damage

Eagerly awaiting the repairs to begin……..

You're changing the topic again.

OK, if you want to pretend that they are not good, that's fine, as it doesn't change the main point.

Dubas inherited three mediocre players who couldn't get it done in the playoffs (which isn't to his credit) and spent five years not improving the team, for which he deserves at least some of the blame.

No matter what silly way you want to spin it, it still comes out the same.

You’d have a more intelligent conversation talking to the wall, that guy will never admit Dubas was a terrible GM……..

 

[rumman]

Tre also has no idea what he's doing and is simply a puppet for the corporate overlords who call all the shots

We’ll know if this is the case by the first puck drop of the season imo………

 

[Da Mash]

The owners are a hinderance and are their own worst enemy. I don’t know if it’s possible but what if a finance person showed the owners that 45% of 115 is better than 50% 100 and that creating player movement is one method to increase revenues. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t, but creating interest has to be a net positive.

I’ve never seen the NHL promote goons in the playoffs. One thing they do well is let the players do what it takes to get their names on the Cup. Hopefully that doesn’t change in my lifetime. Would you rather see the names Tkachuk and Bennet or Panarin engraved on the Cup this year? That’s an easy choice.

The rules change. If they want to promote that type of hockey then keep the rules the same all yr.

But they don’t and it’s obvious and who benefits with lax in certain calls ….goons who can shrink the ice. Then you have all that crap that happened after the whistle.

Why is it so hard to keep the rules the same?

 

[Da Mash]

What goons were in the finals? The way the playoffs are played is what makes the cup the hardest championship to win. How can you not have enjoyed the playoffs this year? You want it to be easier and softer? Please don't take away the way its played so the ice capades crew (and marner) will be happy. Oh and by the way , the stars didn't seem to mind it and actually thrived...I mean, not our stars, but the real stars, not the paper tiger ones.

My issue is keep the rules the same all yr. If the refs turn a blind eye to certain penalties like crosscheck and interference etc then do it in the regular season.

 

[myleafs]

My issue is keep the rules the same all yr. If the refs turn a blind eye to certain penalties like crosscheck and interference etc then do it in the regular season.

You can't play 82 games that way, nobody would last. Its been the same since the game was invented so not sure why it should be a surprise to anyone, and I don't think it is to anyone in the game.

 

[Nineteen67]

My issue is keep the rules the same all yr. If the refs turn a blind eye to certain penalties like crosscheck and interference etc then do it in the regular season.

Because they’re trying to get their name on the Cup. And when you do it’s there forever.

 

[Da Mash]

You can't play 82 games that way, nobody would last. Its been the same since the game was invented so not sure why it should be a surprise to anyone, and I don't think it is to anyone in the game.

Just weird….no other sport does it.

I mean imagine seeing a NFL defensive lineman swinging his helmet after the whistle because he was upset during a playoff game? and the NFL said it’s ok…it’s the playoffs . Makes no sense.

A lot of teams build the their team based on speed and skill to get to the playoffs and then all of a sudden the game changes because every dump in now has a guy interfering. D man step more to shrink the ice etc and crosschecks and punches etc increase after every whistle .

 

[Dreakmur]

Just weird….no other sport does it.

I mean imagine seeing a NFL defensive lineman swinging his helmet after the whistle because he was upset during a playoff game? and the NFL said it’s ok…it’s the playoffs . Makes no sense.

A lot of teams build the their team based on speed and skill to get to the playoffs and then all of a sudden the game changes because every dump in now has a guy interfering. D man step more to shrink the ice etc and crosschecks and punches etc increase after every whistle .

Playoff hockey is better. They’d have the same standards all year, but the players can’t bring that for 82 regular season games.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

So we went from
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Gio - Liljegren
Sandin - Lyub

To

Rielly - Brodie
McCabe - Holl
Gio - Liljegren
Schenn - Gustafsson

To

Rielly - Brodie
McCabe - Klingberg
Benoit - Liljegren
Edmundson - Lyubushkin
Lagesson

To

Rielly - Tanev
McCabe - Liljegren
OEL - Benoit

How the f*** do we keep getting worse

 

[Da Mash]

Playoff hockey is better. They’d have the same standards all year, but the players can’t bring that for 82 regular season games.

Makes no sense so it’s not the rules change but the intensity of the players?

IMHO …the rule change lets those type of players to cross the line more.

No other sport does this

Why not turn a blind eye on interference and crosschecks and punches after the whistle in the regular season. You know the season they get paid to work?

Only sport that changes rules to hurt the stars.

imagine the NBA letting less skilled players taking runs at their stars? Especially in playoffs.

It’s weird the excuse is …well it’s always been like that so it’s all good….

Other sports promote we just say ..:that’s just the way playoff hockey is

Then make the rules the same all year. Players can still dog it during the regular season or once a week they can lay the lumber just to keep their sticks ready for NHL playoffs