In fact, his combination of speed and skill and knack for creating chances rivals any other Bruin. Including Spooner, Krejci, Pastrnak, etc.
Player Discussion Brad Marchand IV - CONFIRMED signed 8 years @ 6.125/yr
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In fact, his combination of speed and skill and knack for creating chances rivals any other Bruin. Including Spooner, Krejci, Pastrnak, etc.
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
Bruin fan since 1975
i said i wasnt going to post again in this tread... trust me im hating myself right now too
but when i say marchand isnt a skill guy i mean hes not a general on the ice. hes not a gain the zone and then find a play guy. hes not a pp qb guy. hes not a makes his linemates 20 points better guy
id be an idiot if i didnt acknowledge his better than average foot speed. id be clueless if i said he didnt have a nose for the net... and a strong passion to score.
his results speak for themselves. he does average more than 25 goals per full season. he has some skill.
he doesnt have jagr skill or crosby skill or even krecji skill. i dare say if im trying to name the 50 most skilled forwards in the nhl, marchand doesnt make the list. im not sure he makes the top 100
skill alone doesnt make a player good. lots of very high skilled players never play in the nhl. vladamir ruzicka was one of thr most skilled guys ive ever seen.
im not a huge fan of skill vrs heart. my favorite players are not high skilled players. terry oreilly was not high skilled. he had some skill, but greater heart
all nhl players have some skill. way way more skill than any of us. even john scott would dummy us in a rec league game. brad marchand is easily in the top half of nhl forwards imho... probably top 1/3... but his skill level isnt what will get him into the hall of fame. his skill level isnt what lets him finish top 20 in league scoring.
he will need to keep his skating advantage in order for his skill set to produce. his short handed success comes from his skating advantage.
hes a very very very good bruin.. one of my favorite players... but seriously none of us are saying he has hall of fame skill level are we?
but when i say marchand isnt a skill guy i mean hes not a general on the ice. hes not a gain the zone and then find a play guy. hes not a pp qb guy. hes not a makes his linemates 20 points better guy
id be an idiot if i didnt acknowledge his better than average foot speed. id be clueless if i said he didnt have a nose for the net... and a strong passion to score.
his results speak for themselves. he does average more than 25 goals per full season. he has some skill.
he doesnt have jagr skill or crosby skill or even krecji skill. i dare say if im trying to name the 50 most skilled forwards in the nhl, marchand doesnt make the list. im not sure he makes the top 100
skill alone doesnt make a player good. lots of very high skilled players never play in the nhl. vladamir ruzicka was one of thr most skilled guys ive ever seen.
im not a huge fan of skill vrs heart. my favorite players are not high skilled players. terry oreilly was not high skilled. he had some skill, but greater heart
all nhl players have some skill. way way more skill than any of us. even john scott would dummy us in a rec league game. brad marchand is easily in the top half of nhl forwards imho... probably top 1/3... but his skill level isnt what will get him into the hall of fame. his skill level isnt what lets him finish top 20 in league scoring.
he will need to keep his skating advantage in order for his skill set to produce. his short handed success comes from his skating advantage.
hes a very very very good bruin.. one of my favorite players... but seriously none of us are saying he has hall of fame skill level are we?
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GloryDaze4877
Barely Irrelevant
You keep moving the goalposts.
First, it was Marchand is not a skilled player, and then when people disagreed, it becomes he's not a "general" on the ice, or he's not "Hall of Fame-skilled".
Who said that?
Nobody.
Also, where is it written that skill=general on ice?
By "skilled" I mean that he's not a mucker/grinder and he's not a guy that relies on size/force/crashing the net for the majority of his goals. He can beat a goalie off the rush with a deke/move or he can beat him with a shot from further out.
No matter how you slice it, he's a skill player.
Jorah Marshmont
Long may he reign
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This is what an average NHL player's skill level looks like I guess.
BTW those are the reigning Norris and Selke winners he undressed in that clip.
BTW those are the reigning Norris and Selke winners he undressed in that clip.
Why wouldn't Marchand demand 8 per and not a penny less?
Bruins just gave David Backes @ 32 years old 6 million dollars for 5 years with no move/no trade protection.
I don't know why Marchand would ask for any less than 8.
But even beyond the Backes deal...Look around at the league and the guys that make 7+. Krejci, Bobby Ryan, Jason Spezza, Rick Nash, Paul Stastny, Ryan O'Reilly, etc.
All signed at smaller cap ceilings than what Marchand will be looking at. Marchand's earned every right to ask for 8...I guess it's up to the Bruins to prove he isn't worth that. Fingers crossed last year was an anomaly I suppose, even though statistically it was not.
Bruins just gave David Backes @ 32 years old 6 million dollars for 5 years with no move/no trade protection.
I don't know why Marchand would ask for any less than 8.
But even beyond the Backes deal...Look around at the league and the guys that make 7+. Krejci, Bobby Ryan, Jason Spezza, Rick Nash, Paul Stastny, Ryan O'Reilly, etc.
All signed at smaller cap ceilings than what Marchand will be looking at. Marchand's earned every right to ask for 8...I guess it's up to the Bruins to prove he isn't worth that. Fingers crossed last year was an anomaly I suppose, even though statistically it was not.
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
Bruin fan since 1975
no im saying people took me too literal. when i say not a skill guy i mean, not able to dominate with skill alone. for example marchand is never used on the pp. his coaches feel his 'skill' doesnt translate to pp success. marchand has always been used on a checking line and matched against other teams top lines because his abilities are best suited to counter punching. his abilities produce more results when hes not being checked... not being shutdown.
his skating allows him to take advantage of opportunities... his agitation creates breakdowns... his passion gives him the hungar to fight for everything he gits
the results... a great 2 way performer that scored 37 goals for us last year...
that takes skill, but this type of skill tends to become ineffective at around age 31 or 32. this isnt jagr type of skill or yzerman type of kill or joe thornton type of skill that traditionally allows players to remain ppg scores to 38 39 40 years of age... mats sundin ron francais joe sakic teemu selanee
marchand isnt that type of skill. i hope that clarifies my lazy language. im breaking guys into general catagories to access risk of long term contracts after age 30
in my model... backes is a good risk
krecjci is a good risk
chara is a good risk
bergeron is a good risk
seguin was a good risk
rask is... probably ok
lucic was a bad risk
boychuk was a bad risk
eriksson was a bad risk
and sadly marchand is a scary concern based on history
thats my position... thats my argument. doesnt mean i hate these players, just means as a cap manager id base my decesions on this model.
DKH
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I hope he asks for $9
If he wants $8 M I let him play out the season and if someone wants to pay him go for it
Not that my buds know exactly but I'm told he's looking at long term living conditions near the new facility
Why would he do that if he wasn't planning on being here long term
Beats me, doesn't make all that much sense...why would anyone do that before pen was on paper?
No disrespect to your buds and I promise this isn't a shot or anything like that, but after playing that game literally all summer long..I wouldn't put much stock into the off ice rumbles and grumbles. At the end of the day, if the Bruins aren't willing to pay Marchand what he feels he is worth, he'll throw another jersey on next year.
As usual, I don't think it's much more complicated than that.
I'm curious to why you wouldn't pay $8m for him though in the current market. As of right now, they're going to pay McQuaid, Miller, and Seidenberg $7.416M in the 2017-18. If the give up Brad Marchand because of that, god help you around these parts
BruinDust
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Yet some think he should take a deal south of 7 million, all while using Bergeron deal signed 3 years ago with a 64 million cap as comparable, meanwhile Krejci is getting 7.25.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Marchand camp's number started with 8 million as the asking price. If Boston countered with 7, the proper value is somewhere in between 7 and 8 in today's marketplace.
If you look at the numbers and consider ALL other factors, the Tarasenko deal at 7.5 isn't out of the realm of possibility for Marchand.
I would just say that Marchand is simply not a playmaker first kind of guy. He uses his speed to create space and take the puck to the net. If/when he runs out of room he looks to pass. A guy like Krejci is the exact opposite, he looks to pass first almost all the time to a fault. Marchand's game doesn't translate to the PP as well because most PP's are more stationary and about quick puck movement rather than skating.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Marchand in a Penguins jersey this time next year. They work out together over the summer, they go golfing together, definitely seemed to have become friends over the years. If they show good chemistry on the same line for team Canada who knows, just speculation on my part though.
DKH
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Beats me, doesn't make all that much sense...why would anyone do that before pen was on paper?
No disrespect to your buds and I promise this isn't a shot or anything like that, but after playing that game literally all summer long..I wouldn't put much stock into the off ice rumbles and grumbles. At the end of the day, if the Bruins aren't willing to pay Marchand what he feels he is worth, he'll throw another jersey on next year.
As usual, I don't think it's much more complicated than that.
I'm curious to why you wouldn't pay $8m for him though in the current market. As of right now, they're going to pay McQuaid, Miller, and Seidenberg $7.416M in the 2017-18. If the give up Brad Marchand because of that, god help you around these parts
Rusney Castillo makes $12 M a year and Sandoval $19 so Betts should get a billion dollars
Doesn't wok like that
Who are the forwards making $8 M that have never scored over 60 points
My projections are 30/60 next 5 years to me
I would not give him $8M
Also I love the underrated stuff because other than Joe, and Kytem2, us 3 were the only ones on this board that at the time thought he was an NHL player
i had him as a 10-15 goal agitator, my kid and Joe though he was quick and skilled enough to get 20. Kytem just liked him. The rest of this place trashed him as useless
Now he's underrated and we want to pay him $8 M then what ?
Give him what he wants is many posters take it seems
If Matchand said I want 8/64 nmc
Most Bruins people would say pay him because they live in fear
I draw the line 6/40
Last year Jimmy Murphy said he was being shopped this time now he's ready to be a franchise piece
He will sign he will get North of $7 and when he slumps and has hiccups Sweeney will be trashed for that deal
I only hope HF leaves the threads on the days and weeks post signing so I have a reference to see the people who hate it down the road can see hot it was amazing signing
The smart posters will do what some cute fans do and love it but protect themselves by saying 'I really don't like the term this could be a problem' when they know full well there is no deal without it. You get the girl of your dreams but her otherwise homeless dead beat brother comes to.
There are posters as in plural here currently saying Sweeney butchered the trade deadline yet when I went back and searched even 2 weeks after when they were in first place mid March were lauding the moves.
My psychiatrist occasionally plays word association and one day said 'hindsight' and a blurted out HF. Can't wait till Marchands first 8 game scoreless drought here
The one problem I have paying him 8 M is that does it change him from Brad Marchand the player we admire into a guy know looking to score and live up to the contract.
Making him the highest paid player could put added pressure and skew his game
We will see
Like I have posted I give him 6/40 and nmc
He's never scored over 60 points and I'm not sure any forward out there is making over $7 M with that stat line
Had he got his usual 27ish he'd be looking at 5/30
OTTAWA — Brad Marchand has never been short on confidence. Hockey players who are 5 feet 9 inches, wield their sticks with abandon, and shoot off their mouths like garden hoses cannot help but believe in themselves.
But for the last two days, the Bruins agitator has ripped around the Canadian Tire Centre ice with a sense of wonder. The eternal outsider — loathed by opponents (step up, Brandon Prust) and chided by coaches (this means you, Papa Alain Vigneault) — has been a member of the most talented collection of players as Team Canada prepares for the World Cup of Hockey.
“It’s a huge honor,†Marchand said. “When you look around, you’re seeing the top players in the league. To be on this team and to be a part of it, being in this room, is very exciting. I’m very proud to be a part of it. Now it’s just time to do my part and play my role.â€
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/b...team-canada/tyYuWcd4Yb6LRJSXhV6ERK/story.html
But for the last two days, the Bruins agitator has ripped around the Canadian Tire Centre ice with a sense of wonder. The eternal outsider — loathed by opponents (step up, Brandon Prust) and chided by coaches (this means you, Papa Alain Vigneault) — has been a member of the most talented collection of players as Team Canada prepares for the World Cup of Hockey.
“It’s a huge honor,†Marchand said. “When you look around, you’re seeing the top players in the league. To be on this team and to be a part of it, being in this room, is very exciting. I’m very proud to be a part of it. Now it’s just time to do my part and play my role.â€
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/b...team-canada/tyYuWcd4Yb6LRJSXhV6ERK/story.html
GloryDaze4877
Barely Irrelevant
What does the bolded mean? His agitation causes breakdowns? No, his skating ability and ability to anticipate plays causes breakdowns. Hockey sense and anticipation don't fail with age, and there have been countless guys who have maintained their skating ability well into their 30's. One would be an example you used, Selanne. If he can continue to skate well at an advanced (hockey) age, why can't Marchand?
You say this is my argument, this is my position. Based on what? Some vague definition of Marchand being an "agitator", and that this style of play is going to somehow cause the accelerated decline of his career. You have posted pages of this stuff and I have yet to see an ounce of actual evidence to support your theory.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
GloryDaze4877
Barely Irrelevant
I think Dan is around the right number. Marchand probably gets 6 years and around $6.5-6.9m per (from the Bruins). I just don't see him in PIT w/Cindy.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
Brad Marchand > David Krejci now.
Brad Marchand > David Backes now.
Brad Marchand > David Krejci going forward.
Brad Marchand > David Backes going forward.
Brad Marchand > David Backes now.
Brad Marchand > David Krejci going forward.
Brad Marchand > David Backes going forward.
BruinDust
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Me either.
Krejci - 53 goals in his last 246 games
Marchand - 86 goals in his last 236 games
DKH
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Was the rumor 7/49?
That's less than Krejci
I'd want a year off and tweek it up and add nmc
We can all figure it's going to be between $6.5-7.5 per and 6 or 7 years with NMC in it and reduced money at end
So meeting in the middle it's 7
This guy was NEVER on any top 100 prospect list like Lucic Bergeron or Krejci
And they all will bad probably making $7 M or more
I'm on record as offering 6/40 but Mike is correct he's going to get $7 and he's a good bet to get 180 goals next 6 years with health
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
Krejci is a set-up man, so I don't care about that.
Marchand is a possession monster, who plays against the opposition's best every night, and produces despite that (and without the benefit of power pay time).
Marchand does everything well, and even when he struggles the effort is there. Maybe Brad should be less skilled and then people would give him the Beleskey treatment ("But he tries so hard!").
DKH
Worst Poster/Awful Takes
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DKH
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Pia8988
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And 146 (80 Primary, 54.8%) assist to Brads 89 (40 Primary, 45.0%).
It's almost like one guy is a playmaker and one is a shooter. Let's only compare one aspect of them to each other though.
Regardless, I think he'll end up being paid around 7.250 +/- 250k. Should be 6 years max and not 8 though.
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