Blues Trade Proposals Part 4

[GrandPapillon*]

Also objectively, he tries to stick handle through 4 guys and loses the puck far too often. Being a selfish player doesn't have to be to show up his teammates. The fact that he continues to try that, resulting in the end of our puck possession is incredibly frustrating. As it stands he's been called out multiple times this year and still hasn't gotten the message.

Nobody is saying he's a bad player. That's actually why I'd like to trade him. We have holes that we need to fill, and of our wingers, he'd probably get one of the best returns and most interest.

He has not been called out once.

Those biased against him, like yourself, just assume that when Blues get called out for being selfish, that it must be referring to Perron. There is 0 evidence of this being the case though.

Thank you for proving my point. Also, Perron wouldn't have to try and stickhandle through 4 guys if the players out there with him tried to get open instead of lazily standing around. The Perron I see tries to make scoring chances happen, not just for himself.

Also Hitchcock must really hate Perron's game. He hates it so much that Perron played 2 minutes more than any other forward on the team tonight. At least the coach knows who bothers showing up.

 

[bleedblue1223]

So did Perron run over a puppy or something?

 

[BlueOil]

Perron took offensive zone penalties quite a bit to start the year. He really didn't until that point in his career, nor has he taken that many in the last 15 games or so. But because he took so many to start the year, any time he takes one now will be magnified.

Don't see how he is selfish. He backchecks and gives an effort every game. While true he likes stickhandling, I really don't think he does so in an attempt to show up teamates.

His point production is trending upward and he isn't even 25 yet. I feel like many people base opinions on Perron on his early dealing with Andy Murray and his "fancy" stickhandling skills, and can't objectively evaluate him to save their lives.

Objectively, he is one of the Blues best forwards who isn't a liability at all defensively and has creativity that very few players do.

I will clarify for you, Perron is selfish in the offensive-zone. He's not trying to show anyone up, but he's also not interested in passing the puck often once he crosses the blue line.

The reason they're magnified has less to do with his previous barrage of penalties (which has him tied for second on the team behind only Reaves and Stewart who have fighting majors on their card) and more to do with them occurring frequently in the offensive zone. Every player takes penalties, Perron's are largely concentrated to the offensive zone and usually come after he turns the puck over (something he is also tied for the lead in for forwards this year).

I'm growing tired of his "potential" creativity that rarely shows up on the ice. If he's going to hold on to the puck until the perfect pass is available or because he believes he can stick handle through the other team's defense, he needs to have some success which he has had little of this year.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

We really need an elite 1st line player until Tarasenko can grow into the NA style of play. There is no reason for us to have 3 lines of 2nd line players. At this point I'm willing to trade anyone on the team but Tarasenko, Shattenkirk, and Petro.

 

[BlueOil]

He has not been called out once.

Those biased against him, like yourself, just assume that when Blues get called out for being selfish, that it must be referring to Perron. There is 0 evidence of this being the case though.

Thank you for proving my point. Also, Perron wouldn't have to try and stickhandle through 4 guys if the players out there with him tried to get open instead of lazily standing around. The Perron I see tries to make scoring chances happen, not just for himself.

Also Hitchcock must really hate Perron's game. He hates it so much that Perron played 2 minutes more than any other forward on the team tonight. At least the coach knows who bothers showing up.

Backes called him out.

Perron was the player unwilling to take the hit or make the simple pass to advance the play that night.

I have no link to prove Backes was referencing Perron, but simply stating someone has zero evidence for it does not instantly prove it wrong.

Biases go both ways. There are players open for Perron to pass to, he has options, choosing not to use them does not mean there aren't open players to pass to.

As far as Perron playing more tonight, it probably has a lot to do with Backes going down for a bit and Steen/Tank/Mac being out.

 

[GrandPapillon*]

Backes called him out.

Perron was the player unwilling to take the hit or make the simple pass to advance the play that night.

I have no link to prove Backes was referencing Perron, but simply stating someone has zero evidence for it does not instantly prove it wrong.

Biases go both ways. There are players open for Perron to pass to, he has options, choosing not to use them does not mean there aren't open players to pass to.

As far as Perron playing more tonight, it probably has a lot to do with Backes going down for a bit and Steen/Tank/Mac being out.

Backes never said "Perron is being selfish". Again, you have an agenda against Perron and choose to believe that Perron was one of the players that was being talked about. There is nothing to support this. All your post does is prove that you are incapable of objectivity in this matter. This proves all I need to know. Enjoy being wrong.

 

[Jzk]

Perron is simply the guy that can be traded that has the most value.

I do think he is ridiculously selfish in the offensive zone tho. He stripped Petro of the puck when he was driving to the net... Then takes it to the half boards for a shot that didn't get through.. He is cringe worthy with his play a lot of the time.

 

[BlueOil]

Backes never said "Perron is being selfish". Again, you have an agenda against Perron and choose to believe that Perron was one of the players that was being talked about. There is nothing to support this. All your post does is prove that you are incapable of objectivity in this matter. This proves all I need to know. Enjoy being wrong.

I am enjoying you think you're being objective.

Stop delusionally thinking people have an agenda against Perron and look up the defintion of the phrase "being critical".

 

[Oberyn]

Perron is simply the guy that can be traded that has the most value.

I do think he is ridiculously selfish in the offensive zone tho. He stripped Petro of the puck when he was driving to the net... Then takes it to the half boards for a shot that didn't get through.. He is cringe worthy with his play a lot of the time.

Perron+ for Brayden Schenn is what I would do.

 

[GrandPapillon*]

I am enjoying you think you're being objective.

He is tied for second for points by Blues forwards, gets top ice time by Ken Hitchcock, and even gets some penalty kill responsibility. Currently he is on pace for 25 goals and 30 assists in a 82 game season, yet he is expendable? Your argument against him contains 0 numbers, 0 facts, and a lot of anecdotal evidence and opinions which have already proven to be biased. If you can produce one thing to statistically support your position, I would actually have some respect for your argument. As is, it just comes off as scapegoating one of the few Blues forwards who is producing and tries to make things happen.

 

[BlueOil]

He is tied for second for points by Blues forwards, gets top ice time by Ken Hitchcock, and even gets some penalty kill responsibility. Currently he is on pace for 25 goals and 30 assists in a 82 game season, yet he is expendable? Your argument against him contains 0 numbers, 0 facts, and a lot of anecdotal evidence and opinions which have already proven to be biased. If you can produce one thing to statistically support your position, I would actually have some respect for your argument. As is, it just comes off as scapegoating one of the few Blues forwards who is producing and tries to make things happen.

Proven to be biased? When did you do that? That was your opinion, not a fact (as was most of what you have said).

Perron is a good forward with some bad habits that revolve around his immaturity. He's not going to be moved for the sake of being moved, nor do I advocate moving him unless it's for a deal that gets us a #1 center or a #1 D man. We're deep with wingers and he can be moved without affecting our core.

Stop spending some much time judging me from what I say and try sticking to discussing Perron and his play.

 

[sh724]

Ideally if Stillman nutted up and made the Blues a cap team.

Schmaltz + 2nd for Stastny

Perron for Kulikov


healthy
McDonald-Backes-Oshie
Steen-Stastny-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Berglund-Stewart
Sabotka-Nichol-Reaves

Kulikov-Pietrangelo
Jackman-Shattenkirk
Cole-Polak


but yeah we get to wallow above the cap floor and make trades for used up vets if anything.

It has nothing to do with needing to 'nut up' Stillman is one of the least rich owners in the NHL. Sure it would be great if he would just go bankrupt to make the Blues fans happy for a year or two but then what? Who is going to buy the Blues out of bankruptcy? Stillman was the only real local offer to keep the team in STL, do you think that will be any different the next time the team comes up for sale? Personally I would rather stay near the cap floor then end up like PHX and still spend near the floor.

If you want the team to spend at the cap then you better start looking for a new owner that has so much money he does not care about losing $20+ mil a year like Laurie did but even he eventually got tired of losing all of that money.

 

[Lord Helix]

How many cup contenders are budget teams?

 

[JustOneB4IDie]

We really need an elite 1st line player until Tarasenko can grow into the NA style of play. There is no reason for us to have 3 lines of 2nd line players. At this point I'm willing to trade anyone on the team but Tarasenko, Shattenkirk, and Petro.

Agreed that Frank, Shatty & AP27 are untouchable and yes the Blues have 3 2nd lines. However, I still think Armstrong wants defensive help 1st and foremost. that's still a priority right now ( I'm sure AP27 would like that as well ) even with the injuries to our forwards right now.

Getting a "elite" player would cost way too much in Picks, Prospects, and Players, the latter 2 Armstrong on the record is reluctant to trade. Until that happens, no "elite" players are coming here.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Would you do David Perron and a 3rd for NYI C Josh Bailey and D Andrew McDonald? Discussing on another forum. Give us someone to be a #2 with Petro inexpensive and a true 2-way center who is a former #1 pick still 22 with 3 years of NHL experience.

 

[ExJbeck]

Any person who truly believes Perron is a selfish player, learn what you are watching for the love of hockey. You see Perron trying to stick handle and lose the puck because: 1. no one is open generally or 2. He has no room to pass. Yes there are times when he should pass, but there are times like that for every player. Also Perron has filthy hands and is one of our truly skilled player quit the scapegoating ladies. If you want to be critical be critical of Backes or McDonald because there production is non existent. Or if you want to be critical, be critical piss poor level this team is playing at. This Perron selfish B.S. has got to stop.

I know the giveaway/takeaway stats are not 100% accurate but according to NHL.com Perron has 7 giveaways and 11 takeaways, the 3rd best ratio on the team. Pretty damn selfish if you as me.

 

[ExJbeck]

Would you do David Perron and a 3rd for NYI C Josh Bailey and D Andrew McDonald? Discussing on another forum. Give us someone to be a #2 with Petro inexpensive and a true 2-way center who is a former #1 pick still 22 with 3 years of NHL experience.

No chance and your trade ideas are brutal.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

No chance and your trade ideas are brutal.

I'm not anti Perron by any stretch of the imagination. I like the kid. However, there are pieces of the puzzle that we need and we have extra pieces of the puzzle on the wings. Someone you can afford who can slot in as your #2 defender is going to cost you a top 6 forward or a legitimate player. Andrew MacDonald may not be your first choice or your favorite flavor, because he doesn't get the press many others do. He is playing the minutes of a #2 now. We need a center. We are getting beat in the faceoff circle. Are you watching the same games that I am? Schwartz was a lost soul playing center last night, when he already struggles to handle the boards as a winger. This would fix two problems.

 

[Alklha]

I'm not anti Perron by any stretch of the imagination. I like the kid. However, there are pieces of the puzzle that we need and we have extra pieces of the puzzle on the wings. Someone you can afford who can slot in as your #2 defender is going to cost you a top 6 forward or a legitimate player. Andrew MacDonald may not be your first choice or your favorite flavor, because he doesn't get the press many others do. He is playing the minutes of a #2 now. We need a center. We are getting beat in the faceoff circle. Are you watching the same games that I am? Schwartz was a lost soul playing center last night, when he already struggles to handle the boards as a winger. This would fix two problems.

You don't win with quantity for quality deals though.

Josh Bailey is not any sort of upgrade at C, he is certainly not any better than Alex Steen at faceoffs and doesn't come close to the all round game of Steen either.

Andrew MacDonald probably has one of the best 2 or 3 contracts in the League from a teams perspective, but I think that makes people think he is a better player than he is. He is a #3/#4 defenseman on a playoff team. Now, if we can find a #3/#4 Dman that compliments Pietrangelo perfectly, then that is all we need. Paying Perron for that doesn't make much sense though

How many cup contenders are budget teams?

Budget is always going to be a concern, but we don't really know how much so at this point. After signing Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Berglund and Stewart this summer we are likely going to be at $50m in salary with 16 players signed. If we end up close to $60m, then I don't think we have anything to worry about when it comes to spending going forward.

 

[STEVIE RAY BLUES]

Dear Armstrong,

Trade a piece of the core! This team is asleep! I know this board will lose it's mind about this comment but there does come a time when the only thing that gets through to the players is to remind them that this is a business and someone else can and will take your job if you don't want it!

 

[Alklha]

Dear Armstrong,

Trade a piece of the core! This team is asleep! I know this board will lose it's mind about this comment but there does come a time when the only thing that gets through to the players is to remind them that this is a business and someone else can and will take your job if you don't want it!

It depends on what you mean by a piece of the core. Oshie is playing well and fits the system perfectly. Backes is the captain, signed to a nice deal and we are short enough at C. Berglund has his flaws, but we'll get him at a nice price in the summer and we can't move a C. Pietrangelo is untouchable. Shattenkirk has been arguably our best player this season. Halák is also untouchable at this point. Trading any of them is almost certainly a backwards step.

Which leaves Perron, who half the board are including in most proposals!

 

[Honeycutt]

I am probrably in the minority here but i do not believe Shatty is untouchable. If he were a left handed and playing with petro he would be. My reasoning for this is since the blues have a petro they will not want pay shatty the money he will deserve. We are a budget team and can not allocate that much of the budget on a second pairing defenseman. He is a great talent and if the Blues can find a way to keep both thats awesome. If we can trade him for top center or first pairing left handed dman i believe armstrong makes that deal. I am not hating on shatty but the Blues budget will not have room for a 4-5 million second pairing Dman.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

You don't win with quantity for quality deals though.

Josh Bailey is not any sort of upgrade at C, he is certainly not any better than Alex Steen at faceoffs and doesn't come close to the all round game of Steen either.

Andrew MacDonald probably has one of the best 2 or 3 contracts in the League from a teams perspective, but I think that makes people think he is a better player than he is. He is a #3/#4 defenseman on a playoff team. Now, if we can find a #3/#4 Dman that compliments Pietrangelo perfectly, then that is all we need. Paying Perron for that doesn't make much sense though

Josh Bailey was drafted the same year as Pietro, so we are talking a young player that was probably rushed. He may benefit from getting away from the stigma of 1st round pick pressure, much like Wickenheiser did. He does play a complete game and works hard. Lack of linemates and abundance of centers hasn't done him any favors either. He is two years younger than Perron. At least worth taking a flyer on. Good size and skill level. Maybe you pick a different puzzle piece from the Islanders as I think they should give up more for MacDonald, but the key piece is MacDonald. Just need someone to play their position solidly and log the minutes. He can do this. Cole has played well recently, but I would like an upgrade. I still like the thought of having 6 solid guys in Pietro, Shatty, MacDonald, Cole, Jackman, and Polak. I feel much better with that core.

 

[Thallis]

Any person who truly believes Perron is a selfish player, learn what you are watching for the love of hockey. You see Perron trying to stick handle and lose the puck because: 1. no one is open generally or 2. He has no room to pass. Yes there are times when he should pass, but there are times like that for every player. Also Perron has filthy hands and is one of our truly skilled player quit the scapegoating ladies. If you want to be critical be critical of Backes or McDonald because there production is non existent. Or if you want to be critical, be critical piss poor level this team is playing at. This Perron selfish B.S. has got to stop.

I know the giveaway/takeaway stats are not 100% accurate but according to NHL.com Perron has 7 giveaways and 11 takeaways, the 3rd best ratio on the team. Pretty damn selfish if you as me.

This is just not the case. When he begins to do that, it is the perfect time to dish the puck because he sucks multiple guys in on him, which usually leaves multiple guys open. It would be great if he would actually do something with the puck before losing it because there's usually so much open space in the corners and along the half wall. What has frustrated me most about Perron's play this year is that there usually is an open player or room to start a cycle, but Perron keeps trying to beat 3 guys through the slot. I don't put any stock into the giveaway/takeaway stat. Every building has a different way of keeping it and there's not much emphasis or way to make sure it's totally accurate. People are giving Backes a pass because he's pretty obviously hurting, and notorious already for being a slow starter. McDonald hasn't gotten as much criticism(but he's gotten plenty of it anyways) because he's old and slowing down, and it's also the last year of his contract. The buzz around Perron is because he has the skill, he's just making boneheaded plays. We also have glaring holes that everyone and their grandmother know need to be filled, and Perron would fetch a pretty penny on the trade market. I feel his play, along with the current make up of this team, as well as his value makes trading him worth the cost if the return is what we need. This is the same way I felt about EJ the year he was traded.

 

[SirPaste]

Perron's antics during the LA game proved to me the kid isnt gonna grow up, he is a really good player and we could get the best return for him than any other winger, thats why I think he will be the one moved. We wont be able to keep all of our kids, no team ever does.