IF Thomas can feed Vrana all season he might score 40 and get us a 1st at the deadline. Never say never man.
Blues Trade Proposals 2023-2024
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IF Thomas can feed Vrana all season he might score 40 and get us a 1st at the deadline. Never say never man.
Kapanen, I agree with you. He'd have to really, really pop off this season to be worth a first. But Vrana has shown 30-40g potential over his career. If he paces 30+g, 60+p up to the trade deadline and we retain half so he costs 2.625 against the cap, that can get a first in sellers market. He'd have to play really well, we'd have to retain half, and the market for goal scoreres would have to be thin. But it is not impossible.
Bluesnatic27
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Brian39
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Detroit already retained 50% to get his cap hit to $2.625M. If we retained 50%, the next team would get him for $1.3125M against the cap.
If he's scoring 30 goals with 60 points at that price tag I can really see a 1st for him at the deadline.
Ah, you are right, obviously. I forgot about that and searched too quickly to get his cap hit. Thank you. At $1.3 he is even easier to fit, and thus even more valuable.
Reality Czech
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That's a nice deal for sure. I'd say that if Vrana does well this year and he really wants to stay here at a fair price, I'd be in favor of that. Maybe he's grateful to the Blues for giving him a chance and he wants to be here longer. I wouldn't trade him unless the deal was too good to turn down in that case.
But if he does well and wants to cash in then I wouldn't blame him and hope the Blues get what they can at the deadline. A lot of it depends on what he wants to do and how well he fits in here but 30 goal scorers don't grow on trees. What's the saying, one bird in the hand is worth two in the bush? Vrana means crow in Czech so it fits.
Beauterham
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I don't see Kapanen returning a 1st, but @50% retained for something like a 2nd if he averages above 0.5 PPG, why not?
I can potentially see us getting a late first for Vrana. A lot of contenders are very close to the cap and might struggle to trade for rentals. Vrana's contract is already retained 50% by the Red Wings, if we do the same a team would only need to fit slightly more than 1.3 million under the cap. If Vrana averages his point totals over the last 4 years in the NHL, getting a late 1st (or maybe even let us upgrade one of our 2nds for a 1st) is definitely not out of the question.
I want what some of y’all are taking if you think one dimensional winger with bad reputation who we got for a 7th is gonna return 1st a year later. Because that is much more fun than the world I live in.
STL fan in MN
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His incredibly low trade value was mostly due to him burning bridges in DET and his stint in the player assistance program. If he can show he’s clean and has a good season, then all of a sudden he’s a top-6 winger with a cheap cap hit. Maybe that’s worth a 1st, maybe not, but he absolutely has the ability to greatly improve his trade value.
That said, the last 2 seasons, he was sidelined either in training camp or 2 games into the season because he ignored advice on an obvious shoulder injury and reinjured it minutes into the first training camp practice (2021-22) or meandered through training camp and put himself into the player assistance program 2 games into the season (2022-23). IMO, let’s see which version of Vrana shows up to camp in mid-September and how he looks in the early parts of the season before we start talking about his trade value in March. Hopefully he’s having a nice, calm, quiet summer full of a healthy lifestyle and workouts.
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Brian39
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We live in the same world where Evander Kane got $5.125M x 4 years with 3 years of a full NMC after building the worst reputation in the league. Kane burned his way through 3 franchises before that and San Jose got so tired of his bullshit that they terminated his deal despite him being the team's leading scorer. He had to sign a small prove-it deal in Edmonton and then got that 4 year extension after half a season.
Goals talk in the NHL. Teams will overlook a ton of bullshit (especially for a short term) if you can put the puck in the net. Vrana is absolutely one-dimensional, but his one dimension is the single most valuable and sought after dimension in the league.
Cap hits matter when determining trade value. Remaining term matters when determining trade value. What you've done in the last 12 months matters when determining trade value. I'm not sure if any single thing is more important to a player's trade value than any of these 3 factors. If (and it is a major if) Vrana stays in the lineup all year and plays at the 30+ goal pace he's played at over his last 170 NHL games, then all 3 of those important factors will be drastically different than last year.
Jim Montgomery's previously successful coaching career was derailed when he got fired for unprofessional conduct. He went to an inpatient facility and got treatment, but the result of that offf-ice stuff saw him with no job offers as a head coach in the NHL. He had to settle for an assistant coaching job. He did a good job in that role and when his contract expired his value had magically changed. He got a head coaching job with a premier NHL franchise with Cup aspirations.
Doing your job well alleviates tons of concerns when those concerns are based on personal issues that previously prevented you from showing up to work.
I don't think that getting a 1st for him is the most likely outcome and he is going to have to light it up for it to be a possibility. But I think it is foolish to dismiss it as a possibility based on his value when he had a noticeably worse contract situation and just 3 NHL games since completing the assistance program.
If Vrana plays at all like he did for us this past season, he could be a very valuable addition at the deadline to a team that is all-in. He's exactly the type of deal that Tampa has gone after over the years. How much more did we pay for Scandella in the same season than Montreal did? And he wasn't near as valuable as a 27 year old who was on a 36-goal pace last season. It's definitely not a given, but it's possible. NJ could use more scoring, Carolina, any number of teams, and then there's injuries.
I could possibly see Vrana re-signed if he really pops off as a goal scorer. But the caveat to that is at least one of him or Kyrou, if not both, needs to make major strides in terms of backchecking and defensive play. If neither of them do, then Vrana won’t be back because there won’t be room for both. If he is traded, he should return a 2nd.
Kapanen I don’t see being retained under almost any circumstance. He just doesn’t fill a need, he’s a guy to fill in on the 2nd or 3rd line for now and that’s it. But he doesn’t have the offensive ceiling of Vrana, and he doesn’t have good enough defensive ability to be a bottom 6 stalwart. I view him as simply a warm body until Dean or someone else takes his spot. With how many prospects will be joining the team in the next 2 years, Kapanen is absolutely not a guy I would commit to.
Kapanen I don’t see being retained under almost any circumstance. He just doesn’t fill a need, he’s a guy to fill in on the 2nd or 3rd line for now and that’s it. But he doesn’t have the offensive ceiling of Vrana, and he doesn’t have good enough defensive ability to be a bottom 6 stalwart. I view him as simply a warm body until Dean or someone else takes his spot. With how many prospects will be joining the team in the next 2 years, Kapanen is absolutely not a guy I would commit to.
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Teams get incredibly stupid at the deadline. If Vrana has a solid season and stays clean then he’s a 27 year old top six rental with a 2.6M cap hit(assuming we’d retain). That’s a valuable asset even considering his off ice issues. I think Kapanen is more likely to end up waiver fodder than a trade asset, but Vrana could be a real asset. Probably not a 1st, but a 2nd or B prospect is definitely a possibility.
mostly what Brian said but 30+ goals with his shot/speed/one-timer with Thomas and Krug feeding him on the PP seems very plausible.
I think if he's a mainstay on the PP hat his one-timer ability will keep him on a 30+ goal pace.
It would be 1.3m cap hit if we retain. Even better.
I seem to remember Montreal trading a 4th for Scandy, then flipping him 4 weeks later to the Blues for a 2nd and a 4th.........
I want to be on this board if Vrana is outproducing Kyrou at the Trade Deadline........now that would be some good discussion.
LogosBlue
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WHEN Vrana outproduces Kyrou this year, i hope Kyrou is on the block to be traded rather than Vrana. We should be able to get multiple firsts for Kyrou right? He's such a dynamic offensive player right? He's one of the fastest skaters in the league right? Rakin in the picks...gettin rid of the slackers. That's my Blues dream for 2023/2024.
If you couldn't tell, I'm not a Kyrou fan
If you couldn't tell, I'm not a Kyrou fan
Hope Vrana doesn't get a smell for the nose snow again for your sake. Giving up on Kyrou at 25 after being in the NHL for only 3 years could easily vote bite us in the ass. But then again. Everyone wants him gone anyways.
Bobby Orrtuzzo
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joe galiba
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I heard, on the NHL Channel, that 16 NHL Teams are going to have to make moves, i.e. waivers, etc. to be cap compliant before the season starts.
That number is taking into account players expected to hit LTIR.
It should be interesting to see who will hit waivers before the start of the regular season.
That number is taking into account players expected to hit LTIR.
It should be interesting to see who will hit waivers before the start of the regular season.
LogosBlue
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Your more than welcome to speculate but a couple things. I watched Hull in the early 90's. He's actually the reason i became a Blues fan (not being from St.Louis and starting to watch hockey). Kyrou couldn't hold Hull's jock strap. Comparing the two is ridiculous. Hull wasn't a defensive player sure but not to Kyrou's level. Kyrou is not only completely defensively inept but he doesn't care either.
I know alot of people blow off +/- stats but i don't. Did Hull have some seasons in the negative or close to even. Sure. But he had more ending in the positive side and ended with a career positive as well.
I hope Kyrou comes out this year and proves me wrong. He just has to care. He has all the tools. I just don't see it happening.
(-38) Change my mind
Bobby Orrtuzzo
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For the record I was not comparing the two. More so I think the Kyrou hate is way overblown.
Brian39
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I'm one of (if not the biggest) Vrana fans on this board, but I think the odds of him outproducing Kyrou this year are extremely low. Certainly not high enough to act like it is a certainty.
Kyrou outproduced Vrana (both in goals and assists) in the 20 games they each played after Vrana's arrival in St. Louis.
Kyrou has 64 goals in the last 2 seasons, which saw him play 153 total games (34.3 goal pace). Vrana has 68 goals in his last 4 seasons, which saw him play 170 total games (32.8 goal pace). If you reduce Vrana's sample to just the last 3 years, you get 45 goals in just 101 games (34.9 goal pace). Vrana is at a 38.5 goal pace over just the last 2 seasons (only 51 games played), but if we are cutting his sample size so much in his favor, then I'd argue we should just be comparing him to Kyrou's last season. That saw him put up 37 goals in 79 games (38.4 goal pace). I'd give Kyrou the edge in goal scoring since he did it over a much larger sample, but at best you can call it a wash.
But Kyrou is a drastically better at utilizing his teammates than Vrana. Kyrou has 84 assists in the last 2 years (153 games) while Vrana has just 55 in that 4 year 170 game sample. In the last 2 seasons, Vrana played at a 17.7 assist pace and his 4 assists in 20 games with the Blues was just a 16.4 assist pace. Meanwhile, Kyrou had 36 assists last year and 48 the year before.
Vrana has only had a single season where he played at a 60+ point pace and he had 52 points in 69 games in 2019/20 (the year COVID abruptly shut down the season). That is a 61.8 point pace over 82 games. Kyrou has played at a 75+ point pace in each of his last 2 seasons and his career-high in 2021/22 saw him play at an 83 point pace. Vrana could have a career year in 2023/24 and still finish 20+ points behind Kyrou (while also scoring fewer goals than Kyrou).
You not being a fan of Kyrou doesn't erase his actual NHL production.
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