Blues Trade Proposals 2021-2022 Part 3

[Linkens Mastery]

Adding a 1st to Kyrou is ubsurd

 

[bleedblue1223]

Only reason to add to Kyrou would be to clear up long-term cap issues. I don't see teams having a better young piece that they'd give up from a team that he'd sign an 8 year deal with.

 

[rumrokh]

Prediction time:

Kyrou + Scandella+ 2023 1st for MT.
MT re-signs for 8x8.75

They'd still need to move a few million in cap space to make that work.

 

[The Note]

I will wait and see if MT even ends up in STL, and at what cost, before getting too worked up. That said, I am concerned about what it would cost - both in assets and cap - to bring him in. Not the guy (or position) I would invest heavily in, but clearly there is a lot of smoke.

 

[Majorityof1]

Sure those are valid points, none of them change my mind about not wanting Matt Tkachuk here though.

Don't get me wrong, if we end up with him I'll cheer for him and hope he experiences success here but I think it's a mistake to acquire him. We don't know what contract he ends up with but to this point every indication he's given, including direct quotes, are that he's out for the most money possible and that goes directly against the way Doug Armstrong builds teams. Hey, I could end up surprised by what he ends up signing for but right now.... I'm worried it's going to destroy our cap structure. I'm also worried how his negotiating style potentially impacts other future contracts.

I had the same concerns but I find myself warming up to the possibility of getting him. The thing that keeps my concerns at bay is the fact that Armstrong is a cold-hearted bastard. Tkachuk might want to both maximize his salary and be a St. Louis Blue, but nobody will ever get those two things while Dougy Hardball runs the team. I think the chances of Armstrong signing any player to over $10.5M are super slim, and even $10 or more is unlikely.

You recognize this, as you yourself said it runs contrary to Armastorng's style. So trust that Army won't pull the trigger if Tkachuk won't take a deal that fits within our cap structure. It's a much more hopeful and exciting place to be.

 

[Louie the Blue]

They'd still need to move a few million in cap space to make that work.

Yeah, Tarasenko has to be moved if we’re looking only at cap for this season.

 

[PJJJP]

I had the same concerns but I find myself warming up to the possibility of getting him. The thing that keeps my concerns at bay is the fact that Armstrong is a cold-hearted bastard. Tkachuk might want to both maximize his salary and be a St. Louis Blue, but nobody will ever get those two things while Dougy Hardball runs the team. I think the chances of Armstrong signing any player to over $10.5M are super slim, and even $10 or more is unlikely.

You recognize this, as you yourself said it runs contrary to Armastorng's style. So trust that Army won't pull the trigger if Tkachuk won't take a deal that fits within our cap structure. It's a much more hopeful and exciting place to be.

This exactly. IF Tkachuk is coming to stl it's gonna be for a contract Armstrong wants and feels comfortable with. If he wants to get paid 10 mil plus then the blues won't get him.

 

[TK 421]

I had the same concerns but I find myself warming up to the possibility of getting him. The thing that keeps my concerns at bay is the fact that Armstrong is a cold-hearted bastard. Tkachuk might want to both maximize his salary and be a St. Louis Blue, but nobody will ever get those two things while Dougy Hardball runs the team. I think the chances of Armstrong signing any player to over $10.5M are super slim, and even $10 or more is unlikely.

You recognize this, as you yourself said it runs contrary to Armastorng's style. So trust that Army won't pull the trigger if Tkachuk won't take a deal that fits within our cap structure. It's a much more hopeful and exciting place to be.

Yeah you're right and that does make me feel a bit better about it. I think most of my reservations come from not knowing what the contract looks like yet. Going to be clenched up until this is resolved.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Trading Kyrou for Tkachuk alone just makes zero sense. I will be shocked if that happens. There's not enough dead cap on this team to make trading Kyrou for Tkachuk work, anyway.

 

[TK 421]

 

[bleedblue1223]

And if we do make a trade, I'm just as curious in seeing how Army creates the cap space as I am seeing what he gives up.

 

[PocketNines]

I want Krug going off the roster if this contract is coming onto the roster

 

[bleedblue1223]

I want Krug going off the roster if this contract is coming onto the roster

Yep, this is what I'm most curious, if Krug is the cap casualty and where he goes. This would take care of the crowded LD, and at least creates the potential for keeping more of the forwards that will need new deals soon.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Yea, plenty of guys have some underwhelming playoffs and then go on to tear it up. Hossa is a big one. Perron and Hornqvist both had very good post-seasons later in their careers, just off the top of my head. There are many others. The most common factor is the team they're on.

And law of small samples. Really good players go through 7 game stretches where they don't produce all the time. But when it is in postseason it's magnified.

 

[BlueMed]

Just want to point out how surreal it is for a big sports name to be linked so specifically to STL. I can't remember when the last time that happened.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Just want to point out how surreal it is for a big sports name to be linked so specifically to STL. I can't remember when the last time that happened.

Yep. Nice to be in these shoes. And I posted this in another thread, but probably makes more sense here. For those saying just wait for him in UFA are likely barking up wrong tree. By telling Flames he won't resign he will almost certainly be traded. Unless he is ONLY willing to play for Blues- not at all likely even though we appear to be his preferred destination- if we want him for the rest of his prime it is going to have to be in a trade.

 

[PocketNines]

That creates its own momentum and then it has to happen, and that's when mistakes are usually made. The last two times with the Blues were Ryan Miller and Keith Tkachuk. Clearly mistakes.

 

[TK 421]

This is what my German Shepherd will look like after I use him as my Blues Grief Counselor.

 

[BlueMed]

Yep. Nice to be in these shoes. And I posted this in another thread, but probably makes more sense here. For those saying just wait for him in UFA are likely barking up wrong tree. By telling Flames he won't resign he will almost certainly be traded. Unless he is ONLY willing to play for Blues- not at all likely even though we appear to be his preferred destination- if we want him for the rest of his prime it is going to have to be in a trade.

Can he not sign a 1 year contract and be a free agent next year? He'll be turning 25 with at least 3 years of NHL experience. That fits the criteria for UFA eligibility if I'm not mistaken. If he really wants to be in St. Louis next year, he can sign one-year deal wherever and the Blues can sign him and Kyrou next summer while shedding ROR, Tarasenko, and hopefully Krug.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Yep. Nice to be in these shoes. And I posted this in another thread, but probably makes more sense here. For those saying just wait for him in UFA are likely barking up wrong tree. By telling Flames he won't resign he will almost certainly be traded. Unless he is ONLY willing to play for Blues- not at all likely even though we appear to be his preferred destination- if we want him for the rest of his prime it is going to have to be in a trade.

While that’s a valid point, there’s also no guarantee he’ll be signing a long term deal with whatever team trades for him. He could still be a UFA in a year.

If I’m Army, I’m not breaking the bank for this guy - both in terms of salary/cap and assets to acquire him. But if Army can take advantage of the situation and made a great trade then great. But also, if MT really wants to be here and that’s an option as a UFA a year from now, that’d also be great.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

This is honestly crazy. I wonder if this could be a "yeah ill play in these places, if they give me 2-3 mil more than I'm asking from STL" type thing. Basically STL is 9mil and every other team is 12-13mil I would die of shock if he signs with STL under 10mil

 

[MissouriMook]

One of the teams mentioned in the Athletic article was Detroit, so naturally I spent my lunch trying to work out a deal with Detroit and Calgary that was fair for all three sides with the assumption that both Krug and Tarasenko would waive to go there. Who knows where Tarasenko's head is really at, but it seems reasonable that Krug would waive to go "home" to an up and coming team.

I really couldn't come up with a very good deal, but it looked a little something like this.

To DET: Krug (NTC waived) and Tarasenko (NTC waived, extension framework approved)
To STL: Tkachuk, Hanifin, 2023 2nd round pick (from DET, originally ours)
To CGY: Bertuzzi, Veleno, Mikkola, 2023 1st round pick (STL), 2024 2nd round pick (STL), 2025 3rd round pick (STL)

Leaving Veleno out of the equation, here are the net cap changes assuming Tkachuk signs at $9.5M x 7.

DET: $14M in and $4.75M out leaving $1.05M in space with which to sign Zadina to complete the roster
STL: $14.45M in and $15.9M out leaving $462K in space after promoting Neighbors and Perunovich
To CGY: $6.65M in and $4.9M out (using $0 for an unsigned Tkachuk) leaving $15.7M in space to complete the roster

This whole ordeal left me wondering why Calgary would do this (assuming they could get more dealing MT and Hanifin separately) and why Detroit wouldn't try to cut us out and deal for MT and Hanifin themselves. It would look a lot better on our end with Scandella going the other way instead of Mikkola, but ultimately I don't see any reason for Calgary to trade us MT and Hanifin without Kyrou going back the other way.

 

[BlueDream]

This is honestly crazy. I wonder if this could be a "yeah ill play in these places, if they give me 2-3 mil more than I'm asking from STL" type thing. Basically STL is 9mil and every other team is 12-13mil I would die of shock if he signs with STL under 10mil

I kinda think the Strickland guarantee is significant. Strickland is sometimes a clown but he usually doesn’t guarantee things and he obviously talks with the Tkachuk family a lot.

It just feels like one of those things destined to happen, but we’ll see. Crazy and exciting indeed.

 

[oPlaiD]

Just want to point out how surreal it is for a big sports name to be linked so specifically to STL. I can't remember when the last time that happened.

How about, like, yesterday?

The Cardinals are one of the top two teams by Vegas odds in the Juan Soto sweepstakes, there are reports they actually made an offer for him, and Soto just turned down a contract worth half a billion. The Cardinals have had a lot of top guys linked in trades, Goldschmidt and Arenado were acquired by trade and are both Hall of Fame candidates after all, but Soto at this point is probably a bigger name than any of them, Tkachuk included.

It certainly is fun, though!

One of the hallmarks of both the Blues and Cardinals are being in contention and in the playoffs in nearly every year, so they lack the high draft picks typically needed to acquire franchise-level talent that's built championship winning juggernauts like the Hawks, Lightning, Avs, and Astros, so it's certainly exciting.

It's rare to be able to acquire a player like Tkachuk or Soto at age 24/23 respectively even if you have to sign them to a huge contract. Those type of players are usually only available at those ages if you drafted them yourself (or in baseball's case signed them as an international FA).

It'd be nicer if Tkachuk was a defenseman of this caliber since that'd fit our team needs more, but I still think it's an opportunity for the Blues.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I kinda think the Strickland guarantee is significant. Strickland is sometimes a clown but he usually doesn’t guarantee things and he obviously talks with the Tkachuk family a lot.

It just feels like one of those things destined to happen, but we’ll see. Crazy and exciting indeed.

I agree. Strick is a goof. But he doesn't say things to blow smoke. It's also highly significant that Big Walt works in the Blues Organization as well