Blues Trade Proposals 2021-2022 Part 3

[PocketNines]

I do think we should assume that if we trade for Tkachuk, Kyrou being used is a real possibility. Now, I wouldn't add much on to that, and Tkachuk would have to come with a reasonable extension. My only exception would be if this trade could also be used as a way to get out of Krug. Kyrou and Krug will more or less cover Tkachuk for this season, we get back to 7 NHL D, and even though it's still not an ideal group, we at least clear a long-term cap issue on the back-end. In the forward group, we keep Tarasenko for the year to make a run for it, and with Krug gone, there is a possibility of keeping ROR along with Tkachuk.

No shot Krug waives for Calgary, but that would be the big plan that I'd be good with. It has to be more than just Tarasenko or Scandella because you need a long-term cap issue removed before I'd want to give Tkachuk a big deal.

I don't believe Armstrong can move Krug in time for what needs to be done, and if not, the verdict should be harsh. He made an utterly confident bet that Krug was the guy, and if not, a mere NTC wouldn't cripple him the way the deadly NMC would.

 

[Blueline2757]

I’ve watched Tkachuk more than most here.

He’s a good player, but he also played with 2 very, very good players. The supposed agitator/tough guy in him turtles when someone with real heft challenges, was a complete no show in the BoA. Very much like his Dad.

Matthew is a great person but I find the player overrated and I think it be a mistake to spend the assets or the $$$ to acquire him.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Mohko]

Blues should stand pat on this. Let's see if MT agrees on extension to another team. Thus, the money can be allocated to D as it should. In case he will end up being a rental or plays out the last year in Calgary, he has to prove himself with other players than JG and Lindholm to earn the payday.

Only when Calgary approaches the Blues that MT will only sign an extension with the Blues, should a trade be executed.

A total rip off should not happen with this trade as it could come back to haunt this organization later on.

 

[DatDude44]

I assumed 18M between Tkachuk and Kyrou (let's go 10.5M for MT and 7.5M for Kyrou). Mikkola's pay won't go down from his 1.9M this year. If Perunovich makes a step, he will need a lucrative bridge (1.5M does seem right). Acciari is likely a one year guy only given the crunch.

It will depend on how mikkola and perunovich play... mikkola will probably walk if need be. No reason to pay him 2 mill if it costs us losing kyrou or something obvi.

 

[STL fan in MN]

The more I think about it, my preference would be to not try to find a way to fit MT on the roster this year. Let Calgary deal with the mess for a year. Or trade him somewhere else for the 1 season. I don’t really see a scenario where we can fit MT into the lineup this season that actually makes the team better and is a good use of assets via trade.

If in that time, MT doesn’t sign a long term deal with someone else and he becomes a UFA, I’d absolutely pursue him. If he wants to make crazy money and someone else is willing to give it to him, then he can go there. But if he’d be willing to accept around what Gaudreau got from CBJ, I’d happily sign him to an 8-year deal.

The crunch then becomes needing to jettison someone else. I’d prefer to keep both ROR and Kyrou. The obvious move I think a lot of us have been gravitating towards is Krug but the more I think about it, I think I’d rather try to move Schenn. Or move both Schenn and Krug and replace Krug with a different d-man also making about $6.5M but who can be trusted defensively a bit more as I think that money would be needed on defense more than offense. The problem of course is that both Krug and Schenn have full NTCs. But of those two, I see Schenn’s contract as being the more likely of the two to become an albatross so I’d be good with trying to get rid of it.

It’d lead to something like this:

Tkachuk - 9.5
Thomas - 8.125
Kyrou - 7.7
O’Reilly - 7
Saad - 4.5
Buchnevich - 5.8
Schenn downgrade - 2
Neighbors - .836
Bolduc - .836
4th line C - .85
Toropchenko - .75
Walker - .75
13th F - .75
14th F - .75
Total: $50.147M

Faulk - 6.5
Parayko - 6.5
Krug or similar - 6.5
Leddy - 4
Perunovich - 1.4
Bortuzzo - .95
7th D - .75
Total: $26.6M

Binnington - 6
Hofer or stopgap - .75
Total: $6.75

Grand Total: $83.497M

Would Army be comfortable starting the season with $3000 in Cap space? Highly unlikely. Would the Blues be able to make all of the moves needed and signings and re-signings needed to make this possible? Also highly unlikely. But it’s a dream scenario and it’s the off season so I’m gonna dream.

 

[Celtic Note]

The more I think about it, my preference would be to not try to find a way to fit MT on the roster this year. Let Calgary deal with the mess for a year. Or trade him somewhere else for the 1 season. I don’t really see a scenario where we can fit MT into the lineup this season that actually makes the team better and is a good use of assets via trade.

If in that time, MT doesn’t sign a long term deal with someone else and he becomes a UFA, I’d absolutely pursue him. If he wants to make crazy money and someone else is willing to give it to him, then he can go there. But if he’d be willing to accept around what Gaudreau got from CBJ, I’d happily sign him to an 8-year deal.

The crunch then becomes needing to jettison someone else. I’d prefer to keep both ROR and Kyrou. The obvious move I think a lot of us have been gravitating towards is Krug but the more I think about it, I think I’d rather try to move Schenn. Or move both Schenn and Krug and replace Krug with a different d-man also making about $6.5M but who can be trusted defensively a bit more as I think that money would be needed on defense more than offense. The problem of course is that both Krug and Schenn have full NTCs. But of those two, I see Schenn’s contract as being the more likely of the two to become an albatross so I’d be good with trying to get rid of it.

It’d lead to something like this:

Tkachuk - 9.5
Thomas - 8.125
Kyrou - 7.7
O’Reilly - 7
Saad - 4.5
Buchnevich - 5.8
Schenn downgrade - 2
Neighbors - .836
Bolduc - .836
4th line C - .85
Toropchenko - .75
Walker - .75
13th F - .75
14th F - .75
Total: $50.147M

Faulk - 6.5
Parayko - 6.5
Krug or similar - 6.5
Leddy - 4
Perunovich - 1.4
Bortuzzo - .95
7th D - .75
Total: $26.6M

Binnington - 6
Hofer or stopgap - .75
Total: $6.75

Grand Total: $83.497M

Would Army be comfortable starting the season with $3000 in Cap space? Highly unlikely. Would the Blues be able to make all of the moves needed and signings and re-signings needed to make this possible? Also highly unlikely. But it’s a dream scenario and it’s the off season so I’m gonna dream.

I could get behind something like this, but it does seem unlikely. I could see one guy willing to waive in the right situation, but having that happen twice seems challenging. It would be easier if we sucked and players wanted to play for a challenger. But, we don’t, so what is their incentive to leave?

 

[oPlaiD]

I'm not happy about what Thomas did in the postseason this year, but Tkachuk disappeared against a mere Edmonton. Is your argument that he was good?

The argument is more that one series, or one playoff, doesn't represent the ultimate destiny of a player.

 

[Stealth JD]

It’s fun to speculate about and imagine Matthew Tkachuk with the Blues, but it’s highly unlikely all of the requisite maneuvering could be done in a way that makes the team better both today and for the foreseeable future. I’d still rather fix the LD than upgrade on the wing at the further expense of the defense; and teams like NJD, Detroit or Anaheim could fit Tkachuk’s contract easier without having to purge NHL talent to make it happen.

The Blues already had too many good players to fit in that they let DP57 walk; unless Army is prepared to lose another vet or two it’s probably wise for him to stay out of the MT sweepstakes.

 

[PJJJP]

There are only two ways I see Tkachuk coming here. The most likely is as a UFA. The second is a trade that is a steal for us. I don't think Armstrong is going to pay the price for Tkachuk and then have to do a bunch of cap maneuvering just to fit him in

 

[Mike Liut]

This is pretty much the package I'm imagining. Trade Tarasenko to an eastern team like NYI or NJD for a 1st +, then add that return to our first and Perunovich or Bolduc to get Matty.

Im not including Bolduc either. 2- 1sts plus Perunovich and possibly Kostin. That’s it.

 

[TK 421]

Please don't be us, I can't do Tkachuk 2.0.

I was there for the Keith Tkachuk saga and watched he and Doug Weight get massive contracts that screwed us when it came time to extend a far superior player in Chris Pronger. Some of it was simply bad timing with the team being sold but a combined 20 mil for Tkachuk and Weight definitely played a role. Ended up watching Pronger get shipped off for Eric Brewer, Jeff Woywitka and Doug Lynch.

Acquiring and extending Tkachuk is a bad idea with ramifications beyond what we can currently see.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Man, looking back at that Pronger trade, it's amazing how we didn't get a better return. They had young players like Hemsky, Stoll, and Horcoff. And while the return still wouldn't have been great if one of them were added, it's at least another NHL caliber piece.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Adding Tkachuk only makes sense if we can get him to a team-friendly deal like Gaudreau's contract, and are able to trade for him for his total value -- and that includes the fact that he has only one year left on his deal. There's just no way in hell I trade Kyrou for Tkachuk. Calgary WISHES they could make that trade today. Why would I offer that for a player that is more of a luxury, is going to get PAID, and when we have the ability to bring him in for zero assets other than cap next year?

For those of you saying one of them has to go, even if that were true, that doesn't mean you trade Kyrou for Tkachuk. You could just as easily trade a package of Tarasenko+Kostin+Scandella+2nd (which is quite a haul for a player that is going to walk on them), and then turn around and trade Kyrou for something of actual need that represents his value (a #1LHD to play with Faulk/Parayko).

The only way I can see Kyrou being traded is if we get Tkachuk+Hanifin for him and some loose change, and I don't think the Blues need to do that. There are plenty of LHD on the market we could be targeting that wouldn't cost Kyrou: Sanheim, Provorov, Chychrun, Hanifin (with no Tkachuk), Dobson, and plenty others.



And now for some fun,
My offers:

Tkachuk for Tarasenko, Scandella, Kostin, '24 2nd

Hanifin for Barbashev, Mikkola, '23 1st, Matt Kessel

Scandella can be traded to someone else, but I think Scandella is the cost of value for Tkachuk. +/- on both sides to make things work, the Blues come in under cap with Krug or Leddy on the way out next year -- making room for Kyrou's raise. O'Reilly can then re-sign comfortably.

Hanifin, imo is the real target, and is both the best fit of the available LHD skill-wise, and especially cap-wise.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Sounds like us and Nashville are the strongest suitors for him. Some others mentioned on his list are Dallas, Vegas, and Florida, but they all have pretty big cap issues.

 

[rumrokh]

Please don't be us, I can't do Tkachuk 2.0.

I was there for the Keith Tkachuk saga and watched he and Doug Weight get massive contracts that screwed us when it came time to extend a far superior player in Chris Pronger. Some of it was simply bad timing with the team being sold but a combined 20 mil for Tkachuk and Weight definitely played a role. Ended up watching Pronger get shipped off for Eric Brewer, Jeff Woywitka and Doug Lynch.

Acquiring and extending Tkachuk is a bad idea with ramifications beyond what we can currently see.

That had everything to do with Laurie and not Tkachuk.

 

[TK 421]

That had everything to do with Laurie and not Tkachuk.

Yes I know it was primarily the timing of the team being sold happening to coincide with Pronger needing to be extended.

 

[rumrokh]

The argument is more that one series, or one playoff, doesn't represent the ultimate destiny of a player.

Yea, plenty of guys have some underwhelming playoffs and then go on to tear it up. Hossa is a big one. Perron and Hornqvist both had very good post-seasons later in their careers, just off the top of my head. There are many others. The most common factor is the team they're on.

 

[BlueDream]

Please don't be us, I can't do Tkachuk 2.0.

I was there for the Keith Tkachuk saga and watched he and Doug Weight get massive contracts that screwed us when it came time to extend a far superior player in Chris Pronger. Some of it was simply bad timing with the team being sold but a combined 20 mil for Tkachuk and Weight definitely played a role. Ended up watching Pronger get shipped off for Eric Brewer, Jeff Woywitka and Doug Lynch.

Acquiring and extending Tkachuk is a bad idea with ramifications beyond what we can currently see.

It’s time for people to stop complaining about the Keith Tkachuk trade. The Blues are still benefiting from that trade considering Keith works and scouts for the Blues, and has a major hand in youth hockey in St. Louis. The only reason we are even talking about trading for/signing Matthew is because his dad played here. It’s not often a player of that caliber has St. Louis at the top of his list. It basically never happens.

Then when you also factor in things like how they helped guys like Backes and Robert Thomas settle into STL, there’s a lot of benefits. So we are still reaping plenty of rewards that go well beyond whatever Handzus and Nagy were going to provide to the team. The Tkachuks have been great for STL.

As for the Pronger thing, that was due to ownership. Not Tkachuk. That team was going to rebuild sooner than later anyways so whatever.

Glad the Blues made that trade. I don’t care if people aren’t happy with his playoff production. Time to get over it.

 

[PJJJP]

Sounds like us and Nashville are the strongest suitors for him. Some others mentioned on his list are Dallas, Vegas, and Florida, but they all have pretty big cap issues.

It depends on what Calgary wants to do. Do they want more prospects or players who can help them now. Nashville has the edge in prospects nut if we dangle Kyrou the blues have the best player available

 

[oPlaiD]

That had everything to do with Laurie and not Tkachuk.

We also... don't have a better player than Tkachuk on our team right now... it'd be real nice if Parayko was actually Pronger but sadly that's not our situation.

There's also a big difference between acquiring Keith at age 29 and signing him long term vs. acquiring Matt at 24 and signing him long term. Though there's also a big difference between signing one in the pre-cap era and the other in the post-cap era...

 

[PocketNines]

Extremely strong Keith Tkachuk and Ryan Miller trade vibes here.

 

[bleedblue1223]

As long as Calgary embraces a rebuild and we get Tkachuk or Hanifin, then I'm happy.

 

[TK 421]

It’s time for people to stop complaining about the Keith Tkachuk trade. The Blues are still benefiting from that trade considering Keith works and scouts for the Blues, and has a major hand in youth hockey in St. Louis. The only reason we are even talking about trading for/signing Matthew is because his dad played here. It’s not often a player of that caliber has St. Louis at the top of his list. It basically never happens.

Then when you also factor in things like how they helped guys like Backes and Robert Thomas settle into STL, there’s a lot of benefits. So we are still reaping plenty of rewards that go well beyond whatever Handzus and Nagy were going to provide to the team.

As for the Pronger thing, that was due to ownership. Not Tkachuk. That team was going to rebuild sooner than later anyways so whatever.

Glad the Blues made that trade. I don’t care if people aren’t happy with his playoff production. Time to get over it.

Sure those are valid points, none of them change my mind about not wanting Matt Tkachuk here though.

Don't get me wrong, if we end up with him I'll cheer for him and hope he experiences success here but I think it's a mistake to acquire him. We don't know what contract he ends up with but to this point every indication he's given, including direct quotes, are that he's out for the most money possible and that goes directly against the way Doug Armstrong builds teams. Hey, I could end up surprised by what he ends up signing for but right now.... I'm worried it's going to destroy our cap structure. I'm also worried how his negotiating style potentially impacts other future contracts.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Going to be an interesting next week or so. It's clear Tkachuk has been Army's plan since there's been nothing about any of the LD that we've all speculated about.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Prediction time:

Kyrou + Scandella+ 2023 1st for MT.
MT re-signs for 8x8.75