Blues Trade Proposals 2021-2022 Part 3

[Moose and Squirrel]

I still don't think trading a fast playmaking Forward for a slow power forward makes sense. Wouldn't you want both of them on your team?

sure, but...cap and all that

and STL lacks PF prospects, but has skilled ones in the system

this is where IF a Kostin had panned out, this all may be a moot point

 

[Stealth JD]

I preface this by saying I don't think Army would offer this much to a team that has very little, if any, leverage...but if the Flames are just looking for value and don't care whether Tkachuk has any intention of re-signing with the team he's traded to, teams will offer a lot.

I'd do one of Bolduc/Neighbors/Snuggy, 2023 1st and the proceeds from whatever Scandella and Tarasenko can return in separate trades (probably a 4th for Scandella and a 1st + prospect for Tarasenko)

So two 1sts, a recent 1st round pick another prospect and a 4th. That's probably overkill and one 1st rounder too many...but I still think it would be worthwhile for 8-9 years of the league's best power-forward.

(Krug would need to go after this season if the plan is to keep ROR and Kyrou)

 

[Linkens Mastery]

sure, but...cap and all that

and STL lacks PF prospects, but has skilled ones in the system

this is where IF a Kostin had panned out, this all may be a moot point

The biggest issue is all of Tarasenko, Perron, and Kyrou leaving in the same offseason

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

The biggest issue is all of Tarasenko, Perron, and Kyrou leaving in the same offseason

agreed... that would leave one to believe that the team has confidence (high hopes?) for a Neighbors, Bolduc.. or someone like a Saad (honestly, last year is prolly what you get from him, so..) or a Barby sliding up the lineup to fill some of that void
would they be as good? prolly not. not initially at least
but IF Bolduc could adjust to the big boy game (a LOT to ask for a youngster) I think he has the potential to fill Perron's spot on the PP
dunno.. lots of moving pieces, but transitions in the lineup are always sketchy to predict.

so it's either keep pushing with a core that's getting older and risk a CHI/LA stalemate in the next few seasons, or try to retool on the run and HOPE ya make the right decisions

Army def has his work cut out for him

 

[Xanadude]

I’m not moving Kyrou for MT. I’d rather trade Tarasenko for a 1st and offer two 1sts + Perunovich.

This is pretty much the package I'm imagining. Trade Tarasenko to an eastern team like NYI or NJD for a 1st +, then add that return to our first and Perunovich or Bolduc to get Matty.

 

[The Note]

I am wholly against trading assets for Tkachuk. If they want to make a push for him in UFA, so be it, I still wouldn't really want any part of the $9.5+ AAV he's going to get given the other needs on this team and the longterm contracts already on the books though he is certainly a very good player. But, trading Kyrou (for example) to get him a year early for the privilege to pay him a huge sum of money is not at all appetizing to me. Frankly, I have a hard time seeing MT with the Blues, unless DA suddenly does things counter to how he has operated in the recent past.

 

[Zezel’s Pretzels]

This is pretty much the package I'm imagining. Trade Tarasenko to an eastern team like NYI or NJD for a 1st +, then add that return to our first and Perunovich or Bolduc to get Matty.

Feel like Perunovich needs to be kept to make the future cap work. I agree w/ a poster above, Krug will HAVE to be traded next offseason to make keeping ROR and Kyrou even remotely possible with Tkachuk on the roster.

In said scenario, by the start of the 2023-2024 season:

Tkachuk - Thomas - Kyrou (probably a $26M line)
Saad - ROR - Buch (assume ROR gets something near $7M with a moderate term, around a $17M line)
Neighbours - Schenn - Bolduc (hoping neither of the kids would be part of a Tkachuk trade, but good luck w/ that - $8.5M line)
Walker - Brown - Torpo ($3M)
13 and 14 are league min ($1.5M)

$56M for forwards

Leddy - Parayko ($10.5M)
Perunovich - Faulk (lets go $9M for this pairing)
3rd pair (hope some folks from the farm are ready, but Mikkola/Bortz can be extended if needed - $3M)
7th D, league min ($750K)

$23.25 for D

Binny
Hofer

$7M for G

EDIT: with the expected cap of $83.5M for 2023-2024, this roster would be over by $3M. Unless Tkachuk, Kyrou, and ROR all took a good bit less than they're worth to be part of this team - good luck with that - something would have to give. Schenn?

 

[bleedblue1223]

I do think we should assume that if we trade for Tkachuk, Kyrou being used is a real possibility. Now, I wouldn't add much on to that, and Tkachuk would have to come with a reasonable extension. My only exception would be if this trade could also be used as a way to get out of Krug. Kyrou and Krug will more or less cover Tkachuk for this season, we get back to 7 NHL D, and even though it's still not an ideal group, we at least clear a long-term cap issue on the back-end. In the forward group, we keep Tarasenko for the year to make a run for it, and with Krug gone, there is a possibility of keeping ROR along with Tkachuk.

No shot Krug waives for Calgary, but that would be the big plan that I'd be good with. It has to be more than just Tarasenko or Scandella because you need a long-term cap issue removed before I'd want to give Tkachuk a big deal.

 

[Xerloris]

I do think we should assume that if we trade for Tkachuk, Kyrou being used is a real possibility. Now, I wouldn't add much on to that, and Tkachuk would have to come with a reasonable extension. My only exception would be if this trade could also be used as a way to get out of Krug. Kyrou and Krug will more or less cover Tkachuk for this season, we get back to 7 NHL D, and even though it's still not an ideal group, we at least clear a long-term cap issue on the back-end. In the forward group, we keep Tarasenko for the year to make a run for it, and with Krug gone, there is a possibility of keeping ROR along with Tkachuk.

No shot Krug waives for Calgary, but that would be the big plan that I'd be good with. It has to be more than just Tarasenko or Scandella because you need a long-term cap issue removed before I'd want to give Tkachuk a big deal.

There is absolutely no way Armstrong trades Kyrou for MT. If Kyrou was not even available to land ROR then he sure as shit isn't available for MT.

 

[Vektor]

There is absolutely no way Armstrong trades Kyrou for MT. If Kyrou was not even available to land ROR then he sure as shit isn't available for MT.

Agreed. RoR was a necessity at that time and MT is more of a luxury. If he didn't have ties to STL, the Blues wouldn't be trying to get him.

 

[Zezel’s Pretzels]

There is absolutely no way Armstrong trades Kyrou for MT. If Kyrou was not even available to land ROR then he sure as shit isn't available for MT.

Absolutely right. CGY has no leverage here, so expecting Kyrou to go in the other direction is silly. They're going to be lucky to get Neighbours and a 1st.

 

[PJJJP]

I do think we should assume that if we trade for Tkachuk, Kyrou being used is a real possibility. Now, I wouldn't add much on to that, and Tkachuk would have to come with a reasonable extension. My only exception would be if this trade could also be used as a way to get out of Krug. Kyrou and Krug will more or less cover Tkachuk for this season, we get back to 7 NHL D, and even though it's still not an ideal group, we at least clear a long-term cap issue on the back-end. In the forward group, we keep Tarasenko for the year to make a run for it, and with Krug gone, there is a possibility of keeping ROR along with Tkachuk.

No shot Krug waives for Calgary, but that would be the big plan that I'd be good with. It has to be more than just Tarasenko or Scandella because you need a long-term cap issue removed before I'd want to give Tkachuk a big deal.

You trade Krug and our defense is even worse. Is one of Scandella, Perunovich, Mikkola going to play a top 4 role?

 

[DatDude44]

Feel like Perunovich needs to be kept to make the future cap work. I agree w/ a poster above, Krug will HAVE to be traded next offseason to make keeping ROR and Kyrou even remotely possible with Tkachuk on the roster.

In said scenario, by the start of the 2023-2024 season:

Tkachuk - Thomas - Kyrou (probably a $26M line)
Saad - ROR - Buch (assume ROR gets something near $7M with a moderate term, around a $17M line)
Neighbours - Schenn - Bolduc (hoping neither of the kids would be part of a Tkachuk trade, but good luck w/ that - $8.5M line)
Walker - Brown - Torpo ($3M)
13 and 14 are league min ($1.5M)

$56M for forwards

Leddy - Parayko ($10.5M)
Perunovich - Faulk (lets go $9M for this pairing)
3rd pair (hope some folks from the farm are ready, but Mikkola/Bortz can be extended if needed - $3M)
7th D, league min ($750K)

$23.25 for D

Binny
Hofer

$7M for G

EDIT: with the expected cap of $83.5M for 2023-2024, this roster would be over by $3M. Unless Tkachuk, Kyrou, and ROR all took a good bit less than they're worth to be part of this team - good luck with that - something would have to give. Schenn?

How are u 3 mill over?

On cap friendly
Tkachuk-Thomas-Kyrou
Saad-ROR-Buch
Bolduc-Schenn-Neighbours
Walker-Acciari-Highmore

Leddy-Faulk
Perunovich-Parayko
Mikkola- Bortz

Binner
Hofer

Tkachuk=9, Kyrou=7, ROR= 7, Highmore=775, Acciari= 1,250, Mikkola=1,500,000, Perunovich 1,500,000 & Hofer= 800K

Obviously those contract AAV's could be off...but if this were the case we'd have 3.3 mill in cap space to fill 13th/14th fwd, 7th & 8th D

 

[bleedblue1223]

You trade Krug and our defense is even worse. Is one of Scandella, Perunovich, Mikkola going to play a top 4 role?

They did last season.

 

[PJJJP]

They did last season.

Krug was still in the top 4 playing a vital role. If we are trading Krug we need to get back a top 4 defensemen in another trade. Running Leddy, Perunovich, Mikkola, Scandella down the left side is a bad idea

 

[bleedblue1223]

Krug was still in the top 4 playing a vital role. If we are trading Krug we need to get back a top 4 defensemen in another trade. Running Leddy, Perunovich, Mikkola, Scandella down the left side is a bad idea

That d core is just as good as what we started with last season, it's good enough to kick the can down to the trade deadline.

 

[PJJJP]

That d core is just as good as what we started with last season, it's good enough to kick the can down to the trade deadline.

I think it's worse tbh. But everyone has their own opinions

 

[STL fan in MN]

Feel like Perunovich needs to be kept to make the future cap work. I agree w/ a poster above, Krug will HAVE to be traded next offseason to make keeping ROR and Kyrou even remotely possible with Tkachuk on the roster.

In said scenario, by the start of the 2023-2024 season:

Tkachuk - Thomas - Kyrou (probably a $26M line)
Saad - ROR - Buch (assume ROR gets something near $7M with a moderate term, around a $17M line)
Neighbours - Schenn - Bolduc (hoping neither of the kids would be part of a Tkachuk trade, but good luck w/ that - $8.5M line)
Walker - Brown - Torpo ($3M)
13 and 14 are league min ($1.5M)

$56M for forwards

Leddy - Parayko ($10.5M)
Perunovich - Faulk (lets go $9M for this pairing)
3rd pair (hope some folks from the farm are ready, but Mikkola/Bortz can be extended if needed - $3M)
7th D, league min ($750K)

$23.25 for D

Binny
Hofer

$7M for G

EDIT: with the expected cap of $83.5M for 2023-2024, this roster would be over by $3M. Unless Tkachuk, Kyrou, and ROR all took a good bit less than they're worth to be part of this team - good luck with that - something would have to give. Schenn?

I was about to point on the Cap overage but now I see your edit.

But generally speaking, something like that is doable. It would lead to an absolutely sick offense…but that defense? Woof. Leddy, Parayko and Faulk are good (but not elite) players but will all be on the wrong side of 30 by then. I get the impression that I value Perunovich’s potential more than many here but I think he’s never going to be a defensive stalwart. That group of forwards has me salivating but the D just doesn’t seem to be of the caliber needed to win a Cup.

 

[WeWentBlues]

There is absolutely no way Armstrong trades Kyrou for MT. If Kyrou was not even available to land ROR then he sure as shit isn't available for MT.

Absolutely right. CGY has no leverage here, so expecting Kyrou to go in the other direction is silly. They're going to be lucky to get Neighbours and a 1st.

The only logical conclusion I can reach is that by trading for Tkachuk and extending him to a long term extension, you are almost assuredly not going to be able to afford to extend both Kyrou and O'Reilly.

However, at the end of the day, trading Kyrou for Tkachuk is poor asset management. Then it gets even more complicated because you'd have to clear more salary in addition to Kyrou just to fit Tkachuk is for this upcoming season. The amount of maneuvering it would take to add Tkachuk would be a re-tool unlike one that's ever been seen in the cap era.

 

[ArenaRat]

Kyrou is every bit as impactful, albeit in a different manner, as Tkachuk. It would be a huge mistake to move him. Jordan will be an 85-95 point player for the next 7 years at least. I get that Tkachuk likes St. Louis or whatever and that's pretty cool, but if he likes it so much let him come as a free agent next year. Unless Calgary is willing to go Tarasenko and a small add for Tkachuk, which they almost certainly wouldn't and shouldn't do, then pass. We're building around Kyrou, Thomas, Schenn, and Buch up front with the hope that Bolduc/Neighbours/Snuggerud/Future early picks help supply the rest of the top six. Don't dismantle that for Tkachuk just because he likes the city. David Perron loves it too. Didn't seem to matter.

This. All of this.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Strickland about Tkachuk being a Blue in the 2023-24 season

 

[Zezel’s Pretzels]

Krug was still in the top 4 playing a vital role. If we are trading Krug we need to get back a top 4 defensemen in another trade. Running Leddy, Perunovich, Mikkola, Scandella down the left side is a bad idea

1. Scandella will be gone.
2. If one of Mikkola or Perunovich is not ready to be a second pairing D, there are bigger problems.

 

[Zezel’s Pretzels]

How are u 3 mill over?

On cap friendly
Tkachuk-Thomas-Kyrou
Saad-ROR-Buch
Bolduc-Schenn-Neighbours
Walker-Acciari-Highmore

Leddy-Faulk
Perunovich-Parayko
Mikkola- Bortz

Binner
Hofer

Tkachuk=9, Kyrou=7, ROR= 7, Highmore=775, Acciari= 1,250, Mikkola=1,500,000, Perunovich 1,500,000 & Hofer= 800K

Obviously those contract AAV's could be off...but if this were the case we'd have 3.3 mill in cap space to fill 13th/14th fwd, 7th & 8th D

I assumed 18M between Tkachuk and Kyrou (let's go 10.5M for MT and 7.5M for Kyrou). Mikkola's pay won't go down from his 1.9M this year. If Perunovich makes a step, he will need a lucrative bridge (1.5M does seem right). Acciari is likely a one year guy only given the crunch.

 

[PocketNines]

Matthew Tkachuk in the playoffs this year: 12 GP, 4g, 6a, 10 pts, -6
Robert Thomas in the playoffs this year: 12 GP, 2g, 4a, 6 pts, -6

If one of those performances earned the largest contract in Blues history, then the other must deserve more money than everyone on the Blues!

I'm not happy about what Thomas did in the postseason this year, but Tkachuk disappeared against a mere Edmonton. Is your argument that he was good?

 

[Zezel’s Pretzels]

The only logical conclusion I can reach is that by trading for Tkachuk and extending him to a long term extension, you are almost assuredly not going to be able to afford to extend both Kyrou and O'Reilly.

However, at the end of the day, trading Kyrou for Tkachuk is poor asset management. Then it gets even more complicated because you'd have to clear more salary in addition to Kyrou just to fit Tkachuk is for this upcoming season. The amount of maneuvering it would take to add Tkachuk would be a re-tool unlike one that's ever been seen in the cap era.

The Blues could make this work - see my previous post - but it will require Tarasenko and Scandella to be traded this offseason to fit MT on this year's team, Barby to walk, and it will take one of Krug or Schenn to be traded next offseason to extend both Kyrou and ROR.