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Blues Trade Proposals 2021-2022 Part 3

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bluesfan94 said:
There's a difference between getting in a little fight during a competitive practice and hitting someone on your own teammate in the locker room after a game against another team.

But yes, a lot of people hate him for his bigotry and general odiousness.
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I won't argue with that, and don't wanna get into it too much. Just saying that there is usually more to the situation than most fans are aware of, and I bet a lot of players that are labeled despicable people by fans are probably not bad people but just midunderstood. Fans love to hate guys like DeAngelo, Tom Wilson, Marchand, Patrick Kane Evander Kane, Kadri or whoever but I bet they are popular with teammates and peers despite making dumb mistakes in the past. People make mistakes all the time but it doesn't mean they are terrible people that should be scorned forever.

I was just pointing out that it doesn't seem like he was hated by his teammates as you said, but don't feel like arguing over it.
 
Brian39 said:
Again, no one is saying not to improve the left side before getting to the playoffs where they have to hard match against a top line over a series.

The point is that bringing Tarasenko back and then fixing the LD hole mid season when it is easier to fit a LD under the cap means you have a real left side AND Tarasenko for the playoffs. But trading Tarasenko and fixing the LD hole now means you don't have Tarasenko in the playoffs.

I'm with you that fixing the LD hole now should be the plan A. But it's just silly to act like any other plan forces us to enter the playoffs with the current D group.
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I'm not talking about any other plan, I am talking about one specific proposed plan. I accept that they might find themselves in the same longshot prayer situation they found themselves in this year. At that point we will have to run through the same dreary grind of finding a better defenseman at the deadline than all the current defensemen, and realistically that leads to just finding "a" defenseman and paying premium for it.
 
PocketNines said:
Parayko hasn't taken a step back. Parayko never, at any point, has had a two way game. He is big, fast, mobile, minute muncher who can play in all situations and those are highly valuable players. He is the same guy. He's a darn good player. It's just that any person who suggested, ever, that Parayko was a real #1 defenseman, was always manufacturing their own truth. The new narrative is that he declined.
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The pairing of Bouwmeester and Parayko was a true shutdown pairing when they won the Cup in 2019. They played top minutes against the other teams’ top lines, and came out on top (+6). Maybe much of that was because of JBo, but at the time, Parayko seemed to be a very strong defensive defenseman capable of putting up 30+ points. His defense has not been the same since his initial back injury.
 
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jmwc95 said:
The pairing of Bouwmeester and Parayko was a true shutdown pairing when they won the Cup in 2019. They played top minutes against the other teams’ top lines, and came out on top (+6). Maybe much of that was because of JBo, but at the time, Parayko seemed to be a very strong defensive defenseman capable of putting up 30+ points. His defense has not been the same since his initial back injury.
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My entire point is he was never a two way defenseman. Saying Parayko is a very strong defensive defenseman is restating my argument.
 
Reality Czech said:
I won't argue with that, and don't wanna get into it too much. Just saying that there is usually more to the situation than most fans are aware of, and I bet a lot of players that are labeled despicable people by fans are probably not bad people but just midunderstood. Fans love to hate guys like DeAngelo, Tom Wilson, Marchand, Patrick Kane Evander Kane, Kadri or whoever but I bet they are popular with teammates and peers despite making dumb mistakes in the past. People make mistakes all the time but it doesn't mean they are terrible people that should be scorned forever.

I was just pointing out that it doesn't seem like he was hated by his teammates as you said, but don't feel like arguing over it.
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Spare me. This isn't a 'labeled by the fans' thing. His temper, childishness, and use of slurs have been a persistent problem throughout his career that has been recognized by multiple leagues and organizations.

He was suspended twice in junior for violating the OHL's harassment, abuse and diversity policy. In the 2nd instance, whatever he said was directed at a teammate and his own team took action before submitting it to the league. Later that year, he was suspended again for abuse of an official.

He was drafted in the 1st round by Tampa, who downplayed any concerns about his character. In his rookie AHL season he was healthy scratched 8 times despite being one of the better offensive D men in the league at 20 years old. He also took a misconduct for abusing an official. After his first pro season, Tampa traded him for a 2nd round pick despite him posting 43 points as a 20 year old D man in the A.

He started the next season in the AHL but got called up to the Coyotes pretty quickly. Less than 2 months into his NHL career, he was suspended for abusing an official. He was traded to the Rangers the next summer in a legit hockey trade (the Coyotes got Stepan in the deal and already had OEL).

He was scratched 20 times in his first season with the Rangers and at least some of those scratches were for "maturity issues" as described by the coach. Things went pretty well for a couple years, but then started to unravel in 2021. He was scratched for the 2nd game of the season and apparently his response was bad enough that the GM told him that he was going to get waived if there were any more behavioral issues. Less than 2 weeks later, he gets into an altercation with his goalie after a game and is kicked off the team. This was all just a handful of games into a 2 year, $9.6M contract.

They put him through waivers and he went unclaimed.

The same temper and stupid bullshit has followed him around through 3 leagues and multiple organizations. This isn't some fan narrative. He is a clear and obvious talent who has burned his way out of multiple organizations and cost himself millions of dollars due to his temper.
 
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Not sure if trying to improve at the deadline is going to work out. Next year's crop of UFA/RFA LHD.

Put me in the camp of improving the defense this summer and adding to the roster to supplement scoring at next year's deadline if necessary.

1657312114011.png
 
Brian39 said:
Spare me. This isn't a 'labeled by the fans' thing. His temper, childishness, and use of slurs have been a persistent problem throughout his career that has been recognized by multiple leagues and organizations.

He was suspended twice in junior for violating the OHL's harassment, abuse and diversity policy. In the 2nd instance, whatever he said was directed at a teammate and his own team took action before submitting it to the league. Later that year, he was suspended again for abuse of an official.

He was drafted in the 1st round by Tampa, who downplayed any concerns about his character. In his rookie AHL season he was healthy scratched 8 times despite being one of the better offensive D men in the league at 20 years old. He also took a misconduct for abusing an official. After his first pro season, Tampa traded him for a 2nd round pick despite him posting 43 points as a 20 year old D man in the A.

He started the next season in the AHL but got called up to the Coyotes pretty quickly. Less than 2 months into his NHL career, he was suspended for abusing an official. He was traded to the Rangers the next summer in a legit hockey trade (the Coyotes got Stepan in the deal and already had OEL).

He was scratched 20 times in his first season with the Rangers and at least some of those scratches were for "maturity issues" as described by the coach. Things went pretty well for a couple years, but then started to unravel in 2021. He was scratched for the 2nd game of the season and apparently his response was bad enough that the GM told him that he was going to get waived if there were any more behavioral issues. Less than 2 weeks later, he gets into an altercation with his goalie after a game and is kicked off the team. This was all just a handful of games into a 2 year, $9.6M contract.

They put him through waivers and he went unclaimed.

The same temper and stupid bullshit has followed him around through 3 leagues and multiple organizations. This isn't some fan narrative. He is a clear and obvious talent who has burned his way out of multiple organizations and cost himself millions of dollars due to his temper.
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Sheesh, you act like you know the guy personally. I'm just quoting someone who's actually met him and spoke positively about him in an interview, but since you clearly know him better than the ex-GM of the Rangers I'll just bow out of this conversation.

People make mistakes and people can change. Maybe people do have mental issues, personality disorders, substance abuse issues or make bad decisions but that doesn't mean they are "despicable people" as the poster I quoted put it. But I'm not gonna continue arguing because I'm not as invested in this as you seem to be.
 
Can we just drop the DeAngelo stuff since he's obviously not coming here?

Let's argue about size on defense.
 
Blueston said:
Rangers cut him in spite of strong production bc entire team thought he was jerk and couldn't stand him. This shouldn't be a controversial take to anyone that follows NHL.
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I've also seen players from the Rangers say they liked him.

bluesfan94 said:
He punched a teammate in the face but I guess that could have been misrepresented.

He was suspended in juniors not once but twice for racist and homophobic slurs, but I guess that's a "different worldview."
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So did Bortuzzo.

We just recently saw a kids career get ruined because a Subban decided getting flexxed on was racist.

A lot of this shit needs to be taken with a grain of salt in a world where everyone gets hurt feelings and want to ruin someones life.
Brian39 said:
Deangelo's biggest asset is his ability to QB a powerplay and the Rangers PP went 32% in the playoffs this year. They were 25% in the regular season, which was good for 4th in the league.

Removing Deangelo from the team last year opened up the door for Fox to become their primary offensive D man and the QB of the top PP unit. As a result, he won the Norris last year and had a 74 point season this year.

The Rangers went to the Conference Final this year and faced Deangelo in the 2nd round. Deangelo was -6 with zero even strength points in that series. He did have 2 powerplay points though. I'm sure that stung the Rangers since Fox only had 6.

What exactly is the cause of this speculated regret?
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Is it possible they could have retained salary and traded him? Therefore getting at least a draft pick instead of just having dead cap.
 
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Xerloris said:
Is it possible they could have retained salary and traded him? Therefore getting at least a draft pick instead of just having dead cap.
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They don't have too much dead cap because he was still young. They only had to pay him 1/3 of his remaining salary instead of 2/3. That means that the cap penalties for the buyout were around $350k this year and $850k next year. Everything I read was that teams wanted them to either retain more salary than that or to take a bad contract back.

At the end of the day, he went through waivers unclaimed despite being a 50 point D man making $4.6M against the cap for just a 2 year term. And then this summer the best contract he could sign was a 1 year, $1M deal. That is the result of the pro hockey community having major concerns about his character in the locker room and not his reputation. Evander Kane got $375k more than that for half a season and his fan reputation is absolutely worse.
 
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Given the rumors surrounding Tarasenko and Krug I decided to build a roster post them being dealt. So toying around on capfriendly I came up with this roster.

Saad - ROR - Perron
Buch - Thomas - Kyrou
Barbashev - Schenn - Neighbours
Kostin - Brown - Toropchenko
Walker

Sanheim - Faulk
Leddy - Parayko
Perunovich - Bortuzzo
Mikkola

Binnington
Hofer/Lindgren

Signed Perron 3yrs/4.25 million
Signed Kostin 2yrs/1.25 million
Signed Leddy 3yrs/4.5 million
Signed Perunovich 2yrs/1.25 million
Signed Mikkola 2yrs/1.5 million

Tarasenko traded to Flyers for Travis Sanheim and prospect Samu Tuomaala.
- Both are UFA after this year but I believe that Tarasenko holds a bit more value so added a young former 2nd round forward prospect on the Flyers side.

Krug traded the Islanders for a 2nd round pick and prospect Bode Wilde.
- Islanders are in dire need of a LHD that can move the puck. Despite believing that Krug holds quite a bit more value then some others on our board I don't think he fetches a 1st, so a 2nd rounder and former 2nd rounder project defenseman who still holds some upside.

Scandella to the Devils for a 3rd round pick.
- Devils are in the market for defense as well and the FA market this year is pretty rough, plus they have the cap space to easily accommodate Scandella's contract.


This would leave us with little less than 8 million for potential end season moves or saved for next summer when we need to re-sign a couple of big names.


It's going to be a long summer. o_O
 
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Brian39 said:
I don't see how anyone could be willing to give up value for him until we know that he isn't in Russia. Hearing Bettman and Guerin's 'no comments' that were very clearly crafted by legal teams told me that there is real belief that we are heading toward a worst case scenario here. This is obviously speculation, but Guerin's 'I can't talk about that' sounded to me like he is aware of a plan to sneak Kaprizov out of the country and doesn't want to make a comment that brings potential legal liability.

I think it is very reasonable to operate under an assumption that any player young enough to meet Russia's mandatory conscription requirement is going to be forced to stay in Russia unless he can get out of the country without showing a passport at his point of exit.
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OH my, what intrigue!

So Operation Hockey Clip or Bettman's List?
 
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PocketNines said:
4.75M for Husso for three years is hilarious for a goalie whose resume consists of 8 great games in one January once. Binnington won a Cup and got 2 x 4.4. Yes I know RFA/UFA is the whole difference, but absolutely goodbye to Ville. He is just a guy.
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Looking at the UFA goalie market, it seems pretty reasonable to me. I also think you undersell Husso quite a bit there. He hasn't firmly established himself as a starting goalie in this league, but he's on the right trajectory. He was at sea a bit in the post-season, but he anchored the team for more than just 8 games in January this past regular season.

I'm a lot more comfortable with Binnington as our starter next season, but I would be a little surprised if Husso doesn't stick as a starter for the next several years. He may not lead Detroit to the Cup, but I think he'll earn his money. And looking at Detroit's other options (at that price) I think they did well, too.
 
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WeWentBlues said:
Not sure if trying to improve at the deadline is going to work out. Next year's crop of UFA/RFA LHD.

Put me in the camp of improving the defense this summer and adding to the roster to supplement scoring at next year's deadline if necessary.

View attachment 566403
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This chart reminds me that the Blues won a Cup with Del Zotto.
 
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Brian39 said:
Good thing that @Mike Liut already stated that the plan would be to "then address LD later like he did this year." That defense wouldn't be the group going on a Cup run.

I'd rather just fix the LD problem for 2-3 years this summer, take a hit up front and then spend the first 3 months of the season figuring out if the forward group can be good enough or if we need a mid-season upgrade. I feel that we have a surplus of scoring ability and can offset losing some by improving our ability to defend. But if we go a different direction, that doesn't mean that the LD group we bring to camp is the LD group that opens round 1 of the playoffs.
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I agree with this strategy, but it might be that nothing shakes out until in season at the trade deadline. Regardless of when it happens, I think most or all of us agree that it needs to happen.
 
Is Army going to pull off a blockbuster offseason???

Krug for strictly futures and then Tarasenko for Tkachuk.???

Something has to give
 
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