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Blues Trade Proposals 2021-2022 Part 3

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Two things can be true.

Krug should be shipped out because he makes too much money for too long when he's on the back side of his career to be hidden against fast players and not played on PK.

Also, Perunovich has in no way proven he is ready. He looks like he has solid PP QB instincts but is still a high risk for blueline mistakes generating odd man shorthanded chances and besides that the rest of his game needs lots of work.
 
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And a lot would depend on who we acquire. We can make the safe assumption that Perunovich is penciled into a PP and 3rd pair sheltered role, but if the top 4 includes Faulk, Parayko, Leddy, and Chychurn/Provorov, then we have 2 or 3 guys that I'd be comfortable running a #1 PP unit, and all 4 would be good enough to run a decent #2 PP unit. If it's Scandella and Leddy/Chychrun/Provorov, then it's 1 less guy, but Berube would still have flexibility where he's not forced to play someone that is a hinderance on the defensive side or at least not play them significant minutes.
 
In case the amount of available talent on the market brings some of the prices down, Jack Drury could be an interesting prospect from the Hurricanes. And if there is a match between Krug and Detroit, they have had an absurd about of 2nd and 3rd round picks in recent drafts.
 
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Stealth JD said:
I think it's a bad look for an organization to move on from a guy to whom they gave a long-term contract after a single season. But as quickly as year 2, should situation have changed, I don't think any UFA would begrudge a team for moving a guy out. Players are more than happy to have simply found the contract terms that they wanted; having to simply honor those terms for another organization is simply part of the business.

Giving up on a guy after one lackluster year has the feeling of doing a guy wrong. What if the Blues had said, "nope - we've seen enough" after Justin Faulk's first season? He'd probably be pissed having not had the chance to rebound after an adjustment period; and guys let other guys in the locker-room know what they think of a city/management. If he's immediately traded to Winnipeg, that doesn't go un-noticed.

Krug's had 2 full years, and is an asset for which Armstrong should have freedom to use however he sees best fit for his hockey-franchise. No different than any other player without a NMC.
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The Faulk situation was so different to this thing with Krug. They played Faulk at LD because of the logjam at RD with Petro still on the team, and I have not forgotten that signing Faulk looked like a mistake (and still was a mistake) because Doug seemed to be trying to do two incongruous things at once:

1. Sign insurance for Petro leaving
2. Prevent Petro from leaving

You can't convince me that the plan was to sign Faulk and give him an extension to play him at LD.

Krug has had no real competition at LD to speak of in his role. He didn't have a down year where they played him in a position he was not comfortable and effective with. He's been given every opportunity to stake his claim, and you know what he did? He did exactly what he's always done, no worse, and it wasn't good enough. It's a bad signing.
 
ValHaller said:
The Faulk situation was so different to this thing with Krug. They played Faulk at LD because of the logjam at RD with Petro still on the team, and I have not forgotten that signing Faulk looked like a mistake (and still was a mistake) because Doug seemed to be trying to do two incongruous things at once:

1. Sign insurance for Petro leaving
2. Prevent Petro from leaving

You can't convince me that the plan was to sign Faulk and give him an extension to play him at LD.

Krug has had no real competition at LD to speak of in his role. He didn't have a down year where they played him in a position he was not comfortable and effective with. He's been given every opportunity to stake his claim, and you know what he did? He did exactly what he's always done, no worse, and it wasn't good enough. It's a bad signing.
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I don't think Krug's signing was bad at all. But he should be treated as a stop-gap, and if you had to sign him for 7-years to get him for the 2-3 that you actually needed him for, so be it. As you mentioned, he's done what he's always done. But now, two years later, we have cheaper alternatives to what he provides and can use the money he makes to fill other holes. It is what it is. That however is NOT a bad signing. He could be traded for value today at 5 x $6.5M, so that's an asset. A bad signing is one you have to pay to get out of...this isn't that.
 
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Stealth JD said:
I don't think Krug's signing was bad at all. But he should be treated as a stop-gap, and if you had to sign him for 7-years to get him for the 2-3 that you actually needed him for, so be it. As you mentioned, he's done what he's always done. But now, two years later, we have cheaper alternatives to what he provides and can use the money he makes to fill other holes. It is what it is. That however is NOT a bad signing. He could be traded for value today at 5 x $6.5M, so that's an asset. A bad signing is one you have to pay to get out of...this isn't that.
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How do you know he can be traded for value? How do you know the Blues don't have to eat value coming back to get him off the team? You can't possibly know that until he's dealt.
 
Yeah, if Krug was a free agent this summer, he'd probably get or something close to what's left on his deal. Maybe the assets we get in return won't be the greatest, but I imagine we'd get something worthwhile along with the cap space that is more important.
 
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ValHaller said:
The Faulk situation was so different to this thing with Krug. They played Faulk at LD because of the logjam at RD with Petro still on the team, and I have not forgotten that signing Faulk looked like a mistake (and still was a mistake) because Doug seemed to be trying to do two incongruous things at once:

1. Sign insurance for Petro leaving
2. Prevent Petro from leaving

You can't convince me that the plan was to sign Faulk and give him an extension to play him at LD.

Krug has had no real competition at LD to speak of in his role. He didn't have a down year where they played him in a position he was not comfortable and effective with. He's been given every opportunity to stake his claim, and you know what he did? He did exactly what he's always done, no worse, and it wasn't good enough. It's a bad signing.
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Nothing about Faulk was a mistake. Armstrong probably knew long before any of us that Pietrangelo was going to walk. Also Krug is a great asset. I don't see how you can say Krug was a bad signing when He is exactly the type of player we needed.
 
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He could maybe be traded for value today. I expect it to be too difficult for the right deal to be there, and that he'll be on the roster all this coming year. The deal would be close to giving him away just to dump the contract. And he can only go to teams he accepts. But at least Armstrong understands he needs to accomplish this.
 
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ValHaller said:
How do you know he can be traded for value? How do you know the Blues don't have to eat value coming back to get him off the team? You can't possibly know that until he's dealt.
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I'm not saying he'll bring back the Blues a 1st and a blue-chip prospect....but he won't need assets attached to him to be moved. If his contract were waived, I believe it would be claimed. You don't think Army could get a 6th for the guy? A 3rd? A 2nd? Look around the league at the teams that suck and could use a proven, puck-moving, PP-QBing, LHD. This isn't Brent Seabrooke or Marc Edward Vlasic we're talking about...this guy is a proven commodity in the prime of his career signed for a relative bargain compared to the top-tier D-man of today. The trade board show teams such as Detroit, NYI and BOS all having fans who'd be open to giving up things for him. And it's not like he's shit the bed like Justin Faulk did in yr.1. All things considered, his two full seasons to this point have been pretty worthwhile.

You're correct in stating that we don't know what he's worth until he's sold. But I have a feeling that his worth is greater than you're making it out to be. Just because the Blues fans don't value his skillset (largely in part to what we've got in house, and as a perceived weakness to the current roster in general), doesn't mean the rest of the league feels the same way. Back in 2006, Krug would have been a Godsend for this organization.
 
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Xerloris said:
Nothing about Faulk was a mistake. Armstrong probably knew long before any of us that Pietrangelo was going to walk. Also Krug is a great asset. I don't see how you can say Krug was a bad signing when He is exactly the type of player we needed.
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Is he, though? For the past 2 years we have been looking for a top 4 guy that can play shut-down defense, ever since we lost Bouwmeester and Pietrangelo. Krug has never been that guy and that's why I think most people were surprised when we signed him.

And I'm not saying he's bad or anything. He's a very good player at what he does. But he really didn't fill a huge need.
 
Xerloris said:
Nothing about Faulk was a mistake. Armstrong probably knew long before any of us that Pietrangelo was going to walk. Also Krug is a great asset. I don't see how you can say Krug was a bad signing when He is exactly the type of player we needed.
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This is really a proxy conversation for the Great Petro Argument and I think we'll have to just accept a difference of opinion.
Stealth JD said:
I'm not saying he'll bring back the Blues a 1st and a blue-chip prospect....but he won't need assets attached to him to be moved. If his contract were waived, I believe it would be claimed. You don't think Army could get a 6th for the guy? A 3rd? A 2nd? Look around the league at the teams that suck and could use a proven, puck-moving, PP-QBing, LHD. This isn't Brent Seabrooke or Marc Edward Vlasic we're talking about...this guy is a proven commodity in the prime of his career signed for a relative bargain compared to the top-tier D-man of today. The trade board show teams such as Detroit, NYI and BOS all having fans who'd be open to giving up things for him. And it's not like he's shit the bed like Justin Faulk did in yr.1. All things considered, his two full seasons to this point have been pretty worthwhile.

You're correct in stating that we don't know what he's worth until he's sold. But I have a feeling that his worth is greater than you're making it out to be. Just because the Blues fans don't value his skillset (largely in part to what we've got in house, and as a perceived weakness to the current roster in general), doesn't mean the rest of the league feels the same way. Back in 2006, Krug would have been a Godsend for this organization.
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I guess we'll have to define our own respective opinions on what constitutes 'value' for a player like Krug. For me, it's a 1st or a 2nd (and given this inflated Defense market, I'm leaning toward a late 1st or bust). I don't think it's likely he fetches that. You may have a different perspective on what value means to you, and there's nothing wrong with that of course.
 
PocketNines said:
When I see the Zadorov tidbit (which is insane, and absolutely better NOT happen, as he is an awful player), it reminds me of the time Doug Armstrong offered that crazy deal to Matt Carle.
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You know what....for 'dumb', 'mean', and 'big'...I kind of like Zadarov. He's a better version of Edmundson.
That's a solid #5/6. I don't think I'd pay more than $3M/yr for that (as a luxury) but he'd be the perfect partner for a guy like Perunovich, if they both weren't so goddamn left-handed.
 
Islanders get:
Tarasenko 1YL @7.5M

Blues get:
Mayfield 1YL @1.45M OR Mayfield
Aatu Raty 2022 1st Round pick (#13)
2022 2nd Round pick (#65)
2023 4th Round pick

Which is better for the blues and do the Islanders accept this?
 
Islanders wouldn't offer that. I doubt the 13th or Raty would be on the table, that would be a great deal if Army got it though.
 
Dougs Burner said:
Islanders get:
Tarasenko 1YL @7.5M

Blues get:
Mayfield 1YL @1.45M OR Mayfield
Aatu Raty 2022 1st Round pick (#13)
2022 2nd Round pick (#65)
2023 4th Round pick

Which is better for the blues and do the Islanders accept this?
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We don’t need a righty, but I can’t see how we’d say no to that. No way the Islanders offer that much if he’s a one year rental.
 
Vladys Gumption said:
We don’t need a righty, but I can’t see how we’d say no to that. No way the Islanders offer that much if he’s a one year rental.
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I'm thinking about the equivalent of 2 mid-late first round picks is what Tarasenko's value is.

We could definitely use a righty... Bortuzzo is not going to play all 82 games.
Our Defense is going to (hopefully) look a lot different come October.
 
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Dougs Burner said:
I'm thinking about the equivalent of 2 mid-late first round picks is what Tarasenko's value is.

We could definitely use a righty... Bortuzzo is not going to play all 82 games.
Our Defense is going to (hopefully) look a lot different come October.
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As a one year rental, Tarasenko is not fetching two firsts. If we’re looking to clear cap space I’d expect the standard rental price for a top six winger with one year remaining: a first + a decent prospect.
 
Mayfield is a guy I'd absolutely look at if I'm the Blues. I love Bortz but agree that we can't count on him to play every game.

Leddy-Parayko
Krug-Faulk
Mikkola-Mayfield

I would be fine with rolling those pairs to start the season.
 
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Vladys Gumption said:
As a one year rental, Tarasenko is not fetching two firsts. If we’re looking to clear cap space I’d expect the standard rental price for a top six winger with one year remaining: a first + a decent prospect.
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With the no trade clause, Tarasenko will get some say in where he goes, which would increase the likelihood of him signing an extension.

1st plus a decent prospect is really close to 2 firsts. The new statistical models for valuing draft picks are much lower than they used to be.
 
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