Blues Trade Proposals 2021-2022 Part 1

[PocketNines]

I think he is.

After one game where he played 18 minutes in a loss to the worst regular season hockey team in decades, he’s top pair. We have left reality far behind

 

[BlueMed]

After one game where he played 18 minutes in a loss to the worst regular season hockey team in decades, he’s top pair. We have left reality far behind

Well, Connor McDavid was a first line player before his first regular season NHL game so number of games isn't necessarily a prereq for where you stand on a roster.

 

[PocketNines]

Well, Connor McDavid was a first line player before his first regular season NHL game so number of games isn't necessarily a prereq for where you stand on a roster.

I’m pretty sure my point is made if you have to bring up Connor McDavid. Come on, this argument is outright silly. Perunovich is not a top pair defenseman after one game.

 

[Meatball]

I don’t think issue is missing a certain type of D. It’s that our identity as changed and we need to as a team embrace that and maximize it. We get stuck in between and get tentative.

Faith in humanity: restored.

 

[PocketNines]

Yeah, God forbid he believes in the players on his favorite team.

It's a wonder why some of you even post here.

So, after the jab you initiated with “I’m going to regret this” just for talking to me, a difference of opinion entitles you to tell me essentially to leave.

this is garbage behavior and your idea about Perunovich being top pair after a single game is hideously dumb.

 

[BlueMed]

I’m pretty sure my point is made if you have to bring up Connor McDavid. Come on, this argument is outright silly. Perunovich is not a top pair defenseman after one game.

I never said he was a top pairing defenseman yet. Just refuting your logic there.

 

[PocketNines]

I never said he was a top pairing defenseman yet. Just refuting your logic there.

You compared Perunovich to McDavid. But ok I guess you weren’t calling him top pair? What even is this

 

[BlueMed]

You compared Perunovich to McDavid. But ok I guess you weren’t calling him top pair? What even is this

Your logic that a player couldn't be a top anything because that player didn't play a sufficient number of games is illogical. I used McDavid as an extreme example to make it abundantly clear that number of games doesnt matter where said player fits in a lineup. It's about the players' overall skill and ability, which is not necessarily associated with number of games.

 

[PocketNines]

Your logic that a player couldn't be a top anything because that player didn't play a sufficient number of games is illogical. I used McDavid as an extreme example to make it abundantly clear that number of games doesnt matter where said player fits in a lineup. It's about the players' overall skill and ability, which is not necessarily associated with number of games.

Using extreme examples is what people do when there are so few actual examples. If you are right then 23 year olds must step into top line or top pair from Game 1 in the NHL regularly enough to have other examples besides a generational prodigy. Let’s hear them

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Even after Perunovich's good game. I still 100% believe we need to get a defensively minded top 4 LHD. Scandella isn't cutting it and I don't trust Perunovich to be able to handle a top 4 defensive workload in the NHL yet. Let Perunovich take Dunn's spot as Bortuzzo's partner and 2nd PP and feast on weaker opponents.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I don’t see any imminent roster moves. While Lindholm is an excellent fit for the Blues, he is also going to be the best defender in the NHL available at the deadline…if he indeed becomes available at all. The bidding will end up with someone offering more than they should. Perseverating on acquiring him is narrow-minded. It reminds me of when Garrison was the preferred target by some posters. Acquiring him was advocated for to the exclusion of other discussion. In the end, he didn’t even want to come to St Louis, and the Blues arguably did much better in acquiring Bouwmeester.

The situation as of today:
This bottom 6 should be consistently outscoring other team’s bottom 6. It’s the Blues biggest strength. That 4th line is skilled and strong. There are lots of permutations of lines, but they all result in very good 3rd and 4th lines. At the same time, the top 6 is not a liability anywhere.

On defense, I think Armstrong is going to give Perunovich time to establish himself as an NHL player, and to define his role. Until those questions are answered to a better degree, a big trade move is premature. It’s premature to project Perunovich on the top pairing, but it’s conceivable that the team feel they have the best chance to win with the current roster and utilizing Perunovich and the rest of the D corps in a way to compensate for the lack of another big shutdown guy. Perunovich has forced his way into the roster, despite missing most of last season, and despite the Cap situation making his call-up inconvenient. It forced Armstrong to essentially cut a veteran player. That wasn’t an impulsive decision, and it speaks to the front office expecting him to 1) stick in the NHL and 2) giving him time to see what he can be this season.

The unknown is whether there is a potential Tarasenko trade which has been in place for months. Like a situation where both sides have already agreed to the pieces, and the other team just needed to see evidence he was as healthy/effective as advertised. I don’t believe that situation is very likely, therefore I see Vlad not being moved until the off-season.

 

[Majorityof1]

Are you a fan of this team? Honest question.

Yeah, God forbid he believes in the players on his favorite team.

It's a wonder why some of you even post here.

Honest question: Are you a long-time fan? Did you only watch the year we won the cup? Long time fans know most seasons end in disappointment. Being eternally optimistic in the face of such overwhelming data is insane. You literally have to be crazy to actually think the Blues are destined for the cup in any given year.

Why do you post here? Again a serious question. You don't like seeing opinions contrary to your own highly optimistic one. You don't need to read from fans who might have information you don't, because your default position is "This player plays for my team so they are the bestest player to ever play". I might come to the forum to hear from someone who watched a prospect play in juniors, or read a goalie break down from someone who played the position, or get a bunch of stats from someone who put int the work to dig them up and distill it down. I come here to educate myself (and debate) about my favorite team. Scouting, stats, or break-down of play don't matter when you are blindly deluding yourself into "Everything is Awesome".

 

[Meatball]

Honest question: Are you a long-time fan? Did you only watch the year we won the cup? Long time fans know most seasons end in disappointment. Being eternally optimistic in the face of such overwhelming data is insane. You literally have to be crazy to actually think the Blues are destined for the cup in any given year.

Why do you post here? Again a serious question. You don't like seeing opinions contrary to your own highly optimistic one. You don't need to read from fans who might have information you don't, because your default position is "This player plays for my team so they are the bestest player to ever play". I might come to the forum to hear from someone who watched a prospect play in juniors, or read a goalie break down from someone who played the position, or get a bunch of stats from someone who put int the work to dig them up and distill it down. I come here to educate myself (and debate) about my favorite team. Scouting, stats, or break-down of play don't matter when you are blindly deluding yourself into "Everything is Awesome".

I'm sorry.

 

[Majorityof1]

I'm sorry.

You don't have to be sorry. I actually asked in earnest. You do you though, even if it makes no sense to me.

I fundamentally disagree with this idea that you have to always be positive to be a fan. We all spend a TON of time and many of us spend a lot of money in order to follow the Blues. All it takes to be a fan is to want your team to win and to make an effort to be as much a part of that as possible (watching on TV, attending games, following box scores, whatever). BELIEVING a team is going to lose is not at all the same as WANTING the team to lose. Being uncertain is definitely not wanting the team to lose.

 

[Meatball]

You don't have to be sorry. I actually asked in earnest. You do you though, even if it makes no sense to me.

I fundamentally disagree with this idea that you have to always be positive to be a fan. We all spend a TON of time and many of us spend a lot of money in order to follow the Blues. All it takes to be a fan is to want your team to win and to make an effort to be as much a part of that as possible (watching on TV, attending games, following box scores, whatever). BELIEVING a team is going to lose is not at all the same as WANTING the team to lose. Being uncertain is definitely not wanting the team to lose.

I apologized anyway because it's the right thing to do.

Anyway, I guess we'll just agree to disagree. My aim isn't to force beliefs on anyone.

My hope is that Perunovich puts all doubts to rest.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Majorityof1]

I didn't say that, that's your interpretation.

In all seriousness, the negativity around here disguised as "realism" gets old.

Your assertion that Perunovich isn't a top pairing-caliber defenseman irks me.

It's like, can we give the kid a chance? Maybe we have a star on our hands. If I take your viewpoint, they may as well send him back to the AHL, because forget it. Why bother?

If I get called out for blind belief in my team, so be it.

The reason I think "everything is awesome" is because everything really is awesome.

Nothing delusional about that.

Nobody is saying we shouldn't give Perunovich a chance. They are saying the opposite. Throwing a rookie into the top pairing before he is ready isn't giving him a chance to succeed, it is ruining his career. Let him play sheltered a bit to get used to the NHL. Then when he shows he has mastered that, you can add more responsibility.

Imagine a doctor who was very talented. He aced his MCATs, finished top of his class in med school, passed the medical boards with flying colors. Do you want him operating on you by himself as his first day on the job? No, he first must go through residency where he is supervised by other doctors before he is allowed to lead a surgery. You are skipping Perunovich's residency. There is a big difference between letting him grow in the NHL in a limited role and sending him back to the minors.

 

[Meatball]

Nobody is saying we shouldn't give Perunovich a chance. They are saying the opposite. Throwing a rookie into the top pairing before he is ready isn't giving him a chance to succeed, it is ruining his career. Let him play sheltered a bit to get used to the NHL. Then when he shows he has mastered that, you can add more responsibility.

Imagine a doctor who was very talented. He aced his MCATs, finished top of his class in med school, passed the medical boards with flying colors. Do you want him operating on you by himself as his first day on the job? No, he first must go through residency where he is supervised by other doctors before he is allowed to lead a surgery. You are skipping Perunovich's residency. There is a big difference between letting him grow in the NHL in a limited role and sending him back to the minors.

I understand that, and to that end the organization has handled his development fantastically.

My hope is that he grows into the top-pairing LD we need as early as this season. Just my hopes, nothing more.

May as well shoot for the stars, otherwise, why bother?

I believe in him and the team.

 

[i aint Dunn yet]

Even after Perunovich's good game. I still 100% believe we need to get a defensively minded top 4 LHD. Scandella isn't cutting it and I don't trust Perunovich to be able to handle a top 4 defensive workload in the NHL yet. Let Perunovich take Dunn's spot as Bortuzzo's partner and 2nd PP and feast on weaker opponents.

i caught the 3rd of the hawks /kraken game on seattles board , towards the end they pulled the goalie and dunn was out there the whole time ... he had a 3 min shift

 

[SoupNazi]

You guys need to stop trolling each other. Now.

 

[Meatball]

You were genuinely curious whether I was a Blues fan. Even the people who hate me don’t sink that low. But not you.

I own the things I have said to you because you are them, scumbag. But anything I said to you happened after you both questioned whether I was a fan because I disagreed with your assessment of Perunovich, which you stated had irked you before you ever engaged. And you said you couldn’t understand why I belonged in the space, not being a Blues fan and all. You were irked, you did weasel shit, you’re still doing it. Scumbag.

I am genuinely sorry for upsetting you.

I hope the rest of your day goes better.

Good luck.

 

[sfvega]

Let's not gatekeep the forum. We're here to discuss the Blues because we're all obviously Blues fans.

 

[ezcreepin]

You were genuinely curious whether I was a Blues fan. Even the people who hate me don’t sink that low. But not you.

I own the things I have said to you because you are them, scumbag. But anything I said to you happened after you both questioned whether I was a fan because I disagreed with your assessment of Perunovich, which you stated had irked you before you ever engaged. And you said you couldn’t understand why I belonged in the space, not being a Blues fan and all. You were irked, you did weasel shit, you’re still doing it. Scumbag.

I mean to be fair you didn't really provide a reason why Perunovich CAN'T be a #1 d-man on this team. You just sort of vague posted about how you thought we were 1 top paring LD short from being a true contender and that was it. If you have insights as to why you feel so strongly, I'd love to hear them because I almost never get to watch AHL or NCAA hockey games.

 

[PocketNines]

I mean to be fair you didn't really provide a reason why Perunovich CAN'T be a #1 d-man on this team. You just sort of vague posted about how you thought we were 1 top paring LD short from being a true contender and that was it. If you have insights as to why you feel so strongly, I'd love to hear them because I almost never get to watch AHL or NCAA hockey games.

So, facts will bear out that I’ve discussed thoughts on this topic previously multiply and recently.

I don’t therefore like being sarcastically told I didn’t do it right in your lap so it hasn’t been done.

 

[Brockon]

Using extreme examples is what people do when there are so few actual examples. If you are right then 23 year olds must step into top line or top pair from Game 1 in the NHL regularly enough to have other examples besides a generational prodigy. Let’s hear them

Not to step on toes, but...

Charlie McAvoy did exactly that with a post-season debut to his NHL career at 19. McAvoy played 24:11 in his debut on April 12, 2017 in game 1 vs the Sens, in the first round.

GM 1 - 24:11
GM 2 - 27:48
GM 3 - 24:44
GM 4 - 25:03
GM 5 - 31:14
GM 6 - 24:10

He's not exactly a prodigy either. A rare example, sure?

Makar logged 20 mins of ice time in his 2nd NHL game, after 14 mins in his debut in the 2019 post season during game 3 of the 1st round.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

You don't have to be sorry. I actually asked in earnest. You do you though, even if it makes no sense to me.

I fundamentally disagree with this idea that you have to always be positive to be a fan. We all spend a TON of time and many of us spend a lot of money in order to follow the Blues. All it takes to be a fan is to want your team to win and to make an effort to be as much a part of that as possible (watching on TV, attending games, following box scores, whatever). BELIEVING a team is going to lose is not at all the same as WANTING the team to lose. Being uncertain is definitely not wanting the team to lose.

There’s a similar flavor of poster who takes the most negative positions just as reflexively as the pollyanna style you’re discussing. I find that style just as difficult from which to take meaningful discussion. I’ve learned that a lot of posters couldn’t give a reason for why they post. I haven’t found Meatwad to be mindlessly optimistic in the past, though. Just seems really optimistic about Perunovich.

Independent of how I feel about Perunovich, my impression is that the Blues’ front office is very high on him. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn they think he could become a top pairing partner for Parayko. It’s more about how he functions with his partner against top talent than him fitting a specific prototype.