Prospect Info: Blues 2023-2024 Prospect Thread

[Davimir Tarablad]

Watching the Oskarshamn game and a graphic comes up showing who is leading the shl in goals early on and tied for the lead is none other than Ty Rattie

 

[STL fan in MN]

There is at least a monetary upside. He spent 2 of the 3 seasons of his ELC earning his NHL salary as an injured player. That pushed his career earnings to about $2M and he was making that money while looking at a high likelihood that his career was over. His agent was certainly stressing the importance of saving that money.

If he had toiled for 3 years in the AHL (with maybe a cup of coffee in the NHL to say he did it) and then had to retire, his career earnings would be around $500k. Just under that if he never got the cup of coffee.

He's not set for life and a lot of that $2M is lost by being in the highest tax bracket, agent fees, etc. But it is a hell of a bigger financial head start than if he had been making AHL money throughout his entire ELC.

Money doesn't fix everything, he will likely feel a physical toll from hockey for the rest of his life and the "what if" question will likely nag at him forever. But there are a ton of guys who washed out of the minor leagues due to injuries with similar questions/issues who earned a small fraction of what he got.

Is that really how that works? A player almost certain to go to the minors gets injured so gets his NHL salary instead of his AHL salary instead?

I see capfriendly has his career earnings at $2,012,500 but I’m genuinely curious how that works.

Why would he have gotten his NHL salary 2 of the 3 years but then his AHL salary the other year? What’s the mechanism that determines that?

Obviously players on one-way contracts that get injured get their full salary even if they don’t play another day in their life but that seems like a grey area regarding minor league players/prospects. Does that mean the Blues paid Dickinson an NHL salary last season? If so, that sucks for NHL teams to have to pay almost certain minor leaguers NHL money to just sit and rehab.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Is that really how that works? A player almost certain to go to the minors gets injured so gets his NHL salary instead of his AHL salary instead?

I see capfriendly has his career earnings at $2,012,500 but I’m genuinely curious how that works.

Why would he have gotten his NHL salary 2 of the 3 years but then his AHL salary the other year? What’s the mechanism that determines that?

Obviously players on one-way contracts that get injured get their full salary even if they don’t play another day in their life but that seems like a grey area regarding minor league players/prospects. Does that mean the Blues paid Dickinson an NHL salary last season? If so, that sucks for NHL teams to have to pay almost certain minor leaguers NHL money to just sit and rehab.

The injury happened when he was on the NHL camp roaster, didn’t it? You can’t send down an injured player. It was the equivalent of being on NHL LTIR the duration.

If the injury occurred midseason on the AHL roster, I don’t think he gets that benefit.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Is that really how that works? A player almost certain to go to the minors gets injured so gets his NHL salary instead of his AHL salary instead?

I see capfriendly has his career earnings at $2,012,500 but I’m genuinely curious how that works.

Why would he have gotten his NHL salary 2 of the 3 years but then his AHL salary the other year? What’s the mechanism that determines that?

Obviously players on one-way contracts that get injured get their full salary even if they don’t play another day in their life but that seems like a grey area regarding minor league players/prospects. Does that mean the Blues paid Dickinson an NHL salary last season? If so, that sucks for NHL teams to have to pay almost certain minor leaguers NHL money to just sit and rehab.

Capfriendly shows foley spent the first 2 seasons on season opening IR, which doesn’t impact Cap (Players who are on a two-way contract, who did not accrue any NHL games in the previous season, can be placed on SOIR and do not count against their teams cap hit.). Not clear why he wouldn’t have been on soir for 3rd year since he never got healthy. Feels like he should have been. What am I missing?

 

[Brian39]

Is that really how that works? A player almost certain to go to the minors gets injured so gets his NHL salary instead of his AHL salary instead?

I see capfriendly has his career earnings at $2,012,500 but I’m genuinely curious how that works.

Why would he have gotten his NHL salary 2 of the 3 years but then his AHL salary the other year? What’s the mechanism that determines that?

Obviously players on one-way contracts that get injured get their full salary even if they don’t play another day in their life but that seems like a grey area regarding minor league players/prospects. Does that mean the Blues paid Dickinson an NHL salary last season? If so, that sucks for NHL teams to have to pay almost certain minor leaguers NHL money to just sit and rehab.

Yes, if a player gets hurt before the season in a hockey-related activity, he can't be assigned to the minors while he remains unfit to play. It doesn't matter how likely he was to go to the AHL. If you bring a player with an NHL contract to camp and they get hurt, then you have to pay their NHL salary. One of the very few victories the PA has had in CBA negotiations is that injuries can't directly cost players money.

As for the final year of Foley's deal, I haven't seen any reporting about what happened for him to earn an AHL salary. However, I do recall reports in 2020 (I think?) that no doctor had ever told him that he could never play hockey again. My guess is that he made the personal decision not to try and resume his pro career in 2020/21 but that this decision didn't come after a failed physical. I'd guess that he knew he would have been deemed fit to play at a team physical, but personally didn't want to take the risk of further head trauma. And in response, I'd guess that the team decided it would be better to simply pay his AHL salary instead of trying to void his contract for non-performance when he didn't report (which would be a horrible look).

There was almost certainly a behind-closed-doors discussion between the team and Foley's agent to coordinate what happened in 2020/21. No essentially-retired player is going to leave $750k on the table if he is confident that he'd fail a physical and be able to collect that money on injured reserve. He clearly knew that there was a good chance he'd be deemed fit to play. Instead, it was likely in both party's best interest to just agree he was fit to play and agree to pay him his AHL salary to sit at home and call it a career if he wasn't comfortable playing pro hockey anymore.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Yes, if a player gets hurt before the season in a hockey-related activity, he can't be assigned to the minors while he remains unfit to play. It doesn't matter how likely he was to go to the AHL. If you bring a player with an NHL contract to camp and they get hurt, then you have to pay their NHL salary. One of the very few victories the PA has had in CBA negotiations is that injuries can't directly cost players money.

As for the final year of Foley's deal, I haven't seen any reporting about what happened for him to earn an AHL salary. However, I do recall reports in 2020 (I think?) that no doctor had ever told him that he could never play hockey again. My guess is that he made the personal decision not to try and resume his pro career in 2020/21 but that this decision didn't come after a failed physical. I'd guess that he knew he would have been deemed fit to play at a team physical, but personally didn't want to take the risk of further head trauma. And in response, I'd guess that the team decided it would be better to simply pay his AHL salary instead of trying to void his contract for non-performance when he didn't report (which would be a horrible look).

There was almost certainly a behind-closed-doors discussion between the team and Foley's agent to coordinate what happened in 2020/21. No essentially-retired player is going to leave $750k on the table if he is confident that he'd fail a physical and be able to collect that money on injured reserve. He clearly knew that there was a good chance he'd be deemed fit to play. Instead, it was likely in both party's best interest to just agree he was fit to play and agree to pay him his AHL salary to sit at home and call it a career if he wasn't comfortable playing pro hockey anymore.

Fair enough. Interesting that Foley made more money not playing a single game than many make toiling in the minors for years. Good for him though. I’m sure he would’ve rather have given it a legit shot and not dealt with concussion symptoms for years. I saw a video from him a while back and the stuff he went through was pretty bad. Sounds like in retrospect he now realizes he had multiple concussions before the one that ended his career and wasn’t fully recovered from the one he sustained in the Frozen Four when he went out and got another one in Traverse City a few months later.

And those are good, logical guesses at the reason Year 3 was different than the other 2.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Fair enough. Interesting that Foley made more money not playing a single game than many make toiling in the minors for years. Good for him though. I’m sure he would’ve rather have given it a legit shot and not dealt with concussion symptoms for years. I saw a video from him a while back and the stuff he went through was pretty bad. Sounds like in retrospect he now realizes he had multiple concussions before the one that ended his career and wasn’t fully recovered from the one he sustained in the Frozen Four when he went out and got another one in Traverse City a few months later.

And those are good, logical guesses at the reason Year 3 was different than the other 2.

I think he would have made the NHL, maybe as a journeyman type guy, but I think he was going to be a legit NHLer. The health issues were a big bummer, but I'm glad he at least got some significant compensation. Sure hope he managed it well.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I think he would have made the NHL, maybe as a journeyman type guy, but I think he was going to be a legit NHLer. The health issues were a big bummer, but I'm glad he at least got some significant compensation. Sure hope he managed it well.

I think he would’ve too. Just found the situation interesting.

 

[Frenzy31]

Anyone have an update on Lindstien?

It is hard to follow d due to lack of offensive production.

 

[Frenzy31]

Stats from the OHL boys.

Buchinger: 1g, 1a in 2 games (Storm)
Burns: 0gp (Kingston had 2 games)
Mayich: 0p, -2 in 1 game (67s)

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I'm keeping one eye on the Oskarshamn game this morning while catching up on work. Boy, Dvorsky's team is godawful. Getting outshot 38-17 in the middle of the 3rd and running around chasing for 50 minutes. No structure.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I'm keeping one eye on the Oskarshamn game this morning while catching up on work. Boy, Dvorsky's team is godawful. Getting outshot 38-17 in the middle of the 3rd and running around chasing for 50 minutes. No structure.

Yeah, I watched a game a week or so ago and it was horrible to watch. Just looked and Oskarshamn is currently in 14th place with 2 pts on the season. The SHL has 14 teams. The 13th place team has 7 pts. Oskarshamn apparently lost most of their top players over the summer.

If they continue to be this bad, I think I’d rather Dvorsky be on an Allsvenskan team instead. Or heck, even the T-Birds or Sudbury Wolves. Doubt that happens though and I would think the loan agreement to Oskarshamn was for the full season.

 

[Thallis]

Yeah, I watched a game a week or so ago and it was horrible to watch. Just looked and Oskarshamn is currently in 14th place with 2 pts on the season. The SHL has 14 teams. The 13th place team has 7 pts. Oskarshamn apparently lost most of their top players over the summer.

If they continue to be this bad, I think I’d rather Dvorsky be on an Allsvenskan team instead. Or heck, even the T-Birds or Sudbury Wolves. Doubt that happens though and I would thing the loan agreement to Oskarshamn was for the full season.

Yeah I've watched 4 or so of their games and it's been really bad hockey. I've been wondering if we could pull Dvorsky and put him in the AHL instead because this is good for basically no one. I don't know when the point is where we should start being concerned here, but he's still on the 3rd line with no points through 8 games. Even if that's a factor of how bad the team is vs the player, if this continues we're basically wasting a year of development.

 

[LGB]

Does the contract lock him in or would it be possible for us to pull him out and have him play in Springfield?

 

[Frenzy31]

Put him in the CHL. Let him develop. I don’t want another Kostin.

 

[TK 421]

Put him in the CHL. Let him develop. I don’t want another Kostin.

CHL can't do anything but dumb down his game, he's fine in the SHL. He jumped up an entire tier in competition but observers obviously thought he could handle it. It would be nice if he was on a team that didn't suck and this is exactly why I suggested the Blues won't be leaving Dvorsky's development to others past this season. As a European Dvorsky could potentially be sent to the AHL next year, now obviously he can and probably will go straight to the NHL but at least the Blues have that option to cater to his unique development needs.

 

[Thallis]

CHL can't do anything but dumb down his game, he's fine in the SHL. He jumped up an entire tier in competition but observers obviously thought he could handle it. It would be nice if he was on a team that didn't suck and this is exactly why I suggested the Blues won't be leaving Dvorsky's development to others past this season. As a European Dvorsky could potentially be sent to the AHL next year, now obviously he can and probably will go straight to the NHL but at least the Blues have that option to cater to his unique development needs.

I don't see how he jumps to the NHL if he can't force his way to a top 6 role in the shl.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I don't see how he jumps to the NHL if he can't force his way to a top 6 role in the shl.

lotta season left..

 

[tfriede2]

Pekarcik is off to a good start in the USHL with 2 goals and 6 points in 6 games (tied for 5th on his team). In looking at his team, the leading scorer is 19 year old Swede Erik Pahlsson with 5 goals and 12 points in 6 games. I wonder if the Blues are taking note, and this guy could be a sleeper as an overage in next year’s draft - he’s 6’1, so size isn’t an issue - and he produced big time in Sweden juniors and has 4 goals in 4 games in for Sweden U20 international team this year; anyone know anything about him? Erik Påhlsson at eliteprospects.com

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Pekarcik is off to a good start in the USHL with 2 goals and 6 points in 6 games (tied for 5th on his team). In looking at his team, the leading scorer is 19 year old Swede Erik Pahlsson with 5 goals and 12 points in 6 games. I wonder if the Blues are taking note, and this guy could be a sleeper as an overage in next year’s draft - he’s 6’1, so size isn’t an issue - and he produced big time in Sweden juniors and has 4 goals in 4 games in for Sweden U20 international team this year; anyone know anything about him? Erik Påhlsson at eliteprospects.com

Nuggets like these are why I love this board.

 

[Beauterham]

Pekarcik is off to a good start in the USHL with 2 goals and 6 points in 6 games (tied for 5th on his team). In looking at his team, the leading scorer is 19 year old Swede Erik Pahlsson with 5 goals and 12 points in 6 games. I wonder if the Blues are taking note, and this guy could be a sleeper as an overage in next year’s draft - he’s 6’1, so size isn’t an issue - and he produced big time in Sweden juniors and has 4 goals in 4 games in for Sweden U20 international team this year; anyone know anything about him? Erik Påhlsson at eliteprospects.com

Pahlsson turns 20 in April, so I'd take his numbers with a grain of salt as he's mostly playing against younger and physically less matured players. I don't mind picking an overager, but someone who is already in their 3rd draft eligible season? Yeah, they'll have to totally dominate the league if I'd consider drafting them. If he was doing really well in the NCAA, I'd consider it. The USHL on the other hand? I think there might be options with more upside.

 

[TK 421]

I don't see how he jumps to the NHL if he can't force his way to a top 6 role in the shl.

He may not.

He didn't exactly blow up Allsvenskan last year so really he has a lot to prove at the SHL level first as you said, although he has a ton of season left to do so. My point is that the Blues won't leave his development to others past this year and bringing him over after this season doesn't necessarily mean the Blues intend to play him at the NHL level right away. It means they want to directly influence his development and bringing him to NA accomplishes that. He may need to play in the AHL for half a season before his NHL debut, I don't think he will but isn't it nice to have that option with our prized center prospect?

 

[BlueDream]

Don’t know where else to put this, but it looks like since the Canes don’t have their own AHL team, they’re loaning Dylan Coghlan to the Thunderbirds.

The Thunderbirds’ roster looks pretty dang good. Hopefully Dean and Bolduc do really well down there and maybe force the Blues hands by the deadline.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Don’t know where else to put this, but it looks like since the Canes don’t have their own AHL team, they’re loaning Dylan Coghlan to the Thunderbirds.

The Thunderbirds’ roster looks pretty dang good. Hopefully Dean and Bolduc do really well down there and maybe force the Blues hands by the deadline.

Nice. Him, Kessel, and Skinner will be a solid Right side.

 

[Beauterham]

Don’t know where else to put this, but it looks like since the Canes don’t have their own AHL team, they’re loaning Dylan Coghlan to the Thunderbirds.

The Thunderbirds’ roster looks pretty dang good. Hopefully Dean and Bolduc do really well down there and maybe force the Blues hands by the deadline.

Not a fan of this, we already have a lot of D in Springfield and rather not bench one of our own prospects or send one to the ECHL.

We already have Rosen, Kessel, Loof, Gaudet, Biakabutuka, Duszak, Kalynuk and Skinner while Jacobs and Malmstrom are injured. There simply is no room?

EDIT: just noticed the Canes also send Jamieson Rees to Springfield.

EDIT 2: Just to highlight, this is Springfields complete roster:

Not saying this is going to be their exact line-up (shuffle them around if you will), but I think these could very well be the players on their opening night roster. Unless injuries occur I see it as a realistic posibility that Dickinson and Gaudet might not play on opening night... which is a really bad think IMO.

Bolduc - Dean - W. Bitten
MacEachern - Gaudette - Laferriere
McGing - Walker - Peca
Rees (CAR) - Abramov - Heim

Loof - Kessel
Rosen - Coghlan (CAR)
Kalynuk - Duszak (AHL)

Subban - Zherenko




Players benched or potentially send to the ECHL:

Cranley
Ellis

Biakabutuka
Gaudet
Skinner
Jacobs INJ
Malmstrom INJ
Osmanski (AHL)
Harpur (AHL)

S. Bitten (AHL)
Callin (AHL)
Guy (AHL)
Hoelscher (AHL)
Jandric (AHL)
Dickinson
Washkurak