Blue Bombers 2022 Season Thread - Stunning Loss. Dynasty Interrupted. 2023 awaits.

Andy6

Court Jetster
Jun 3, 2011
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Toronto, Ontario
I don't understand that first sentence. No matter what, those spots aren't lost. They would still be Canadian starters and would have to play in over 50% of the snaps in a game.

In practice this is how I see it working. You'd have to track that the next day. Make the penalties massive. Like 50K for a first violation, 100K + 5th round pick for 2nd violation, 250K + 1st Round pick for 3rd volation, 500K + 3 1sts for 4th violation, etc.

In that case, no team is going to risk approaching that threshold. Canadian starter will play 70-90% of every game, no coach is gonna want to track that. Probably save the snaps from the american backup in certain situations.

An example would be let's say Bombers D. Jake Thomas is designated a canadian starter. Late in the game in obvious passing situations Bombers want to go 3 DL and bring in an extra DB, there best backup is say Demario Houston (EDIT: The replacement must be "naturalized american" so a guy like Houston wouldn't qualify. Yes, I don't have all the details). With this rule they can bring in Houston for Thomas in those certain sitations. They are not going to approach 49% for risk of the big penalties so it'll be saved for key situations.
What would prevent a team from playing the Americans over 49% of the time and then taking the fine to make or advance in the playoffs? They'd need to think through the incentives on this very carefully.

The other thing is that a team doesn't know how many snaps they will get in a game, which could confuse things under certain circumstances. For example, you play an American a lot on key drives in the 2d and 3d quarters, intending to sit him out in the 4th quarter, but then only get a handful of snaps in the 4th quarter - putting you over 49% usage. All of a sudden you're in violation, even though the previous week the identical number of "American" snaps was well below 49% of the total.

You could have teams playing a bunch of short plays late in a game in a desperate effort to increase their snap total in order to bring their American usage back down to 49%.

I wonder why they wouldn't take the simpler route of just naming a certain number of snaps that approximates 49% of the snaps a team would get on an average day. This issue will probably skew the usage of the American toward late-game situations (which might have been the case for other obvious reasons anyway).
 

Holden Caulfield

He's guilty
Feb 15, 2006
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Winnipeg
What would prevent a team from playing the Americans over 49% of the time and then taking the fine to make or advance in the playoffs? They'd need to think through the incentives on this very carefully.

The other thing is that a team doesn't know how many snaps they will get in a game, which could confuse things under certain circumstances. For example, you play an American a lot on key drives in the 2d and 3d quarters, intending to sit him out in the 4th quarter, but then only get a handful of snaps in the 4th quarter - putting you over 49% usage. All of a sudden you're in violation, even though the previous week the identical number of "American" snaps was well below 49% of the total.

You could have teams playing a bunch of short plays late in a game in a desperate effort to increase their snap total in order to bring their American usage back down to 49%.

I wonder why they wouldn't take the simpler route of just naming a certain number of snaps that approximates 49% of the snaps a team would get on an average day. This issue will probably skew the usage of the American toward late-game situations (which might have been the case for other obvious reasons anyway).

Exactly. This is why the teams would never even flirt at all close to the 49% barrier. In practice these spots would still be 80-90%, at least, of the canadians still playing. Your kidding yourself if you think it makes that big a difference to winning/losing games. Thered be no complaining about snap totals, if chose to ride the line with snap counts then to squeeze 3-4-5 extra snaps in the 2nd/3rd quarter with an american on field then dont have enough left, too bad so sad.

A snap count limit would make this worse, as teams might always go up to the limit. If you know you could get 30 snaps, you might take it. But if you dont know if the total is 50 or 75 snaps this game, your not taking 38, you are probably taking at most 20 to be safe.

Any intentional breaking the rules could have just over the top penalties. This is the same kind of stuff we see for salary cap management. Over the cap a bit big penalties, over a lot massive penalties. Then for just saying screw it and doing it intentionally, I could use your same argument that whats stopping teams that want to to just intentionally going over the cap by alot just to win? Even more massive penalties that can be franchise crippling if done intentionally. The CFL has the tools in place already to enforce this in same way as with the cap management.
 

rkp

Registered User
Mar 31, 2011
3,125
2,370
Fair enough. Wonder if that might be the sticking point the players are making on this issue, to make sure CFL has to stick to it.

One point not yet brought, this would huge for veteran american players. Right now its basically all rookies at back americans (only about 4/5 on a roster). Cheaper may as well rotate to rookies. This gives them legitimate usage on your roster. Guys like Craig Roh would have been a very nice asset to rotate in for a Kongbo, for example (If Kongbo was starting).

Next CBA would be 7 years down the road, alot will have changed im sure by then.
isnt there a 5 yr opt out clause
 

bustamente

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Jun 29, 2015
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Andy6

Court Jetster
Jun 3, 2011
2,132
737
Toronto, Ontario
All's well that ends well. They got a lot of publicity out of this and made the point that there are real things at stake in the CFL, like bigger leagues.
 

snowkiddin

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Exactly. This is why the teams would never even flirt at all close to the 49% barrier. In practice these spots would still be 80-90%, at least, of the canadians still playing. Your kidding yourself if you think it makes that big a difference to winning/losing games. Thered be no complaining about snap totals, if chose to ride the line with snap counts then to squeeze 3-4-5 extra snaps in the 2nd/3rd quarter with an american on field then dont have enough left, too bad so sad.

A snap count limit would make this worse, as teams might always go up to the limit. If you know you could get 30 snaps, you might take it. But if you dont know if the total is 50 or 75 snaps this game, your not taking 38, you are probably taking at most 20 to be safe.

Any intentional breaking the rules could have just over the top penalties. This is the same kind of stuff we see for salary cap management. Over the cap a bit big penalties, over a lot massive penalties. Then for just saying screw it and doing it intentionally, I could use your same argument that whats stopping teams that want to to just intentionally going over the cap by alot just to win? Even more massive penalties that can be franchise crippling if done intentionally. The CFL has the tools in place already to enforce this in same way as with the cap management.
Hello there, Mr. Eternal Skeptic. Now that we’ve got a game tomorrow, which position battles/players should we be keeping a keen eye on?
 

Holden Caulfield

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Feb 15, 2006
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Hello there, Mr. Eternal Skeptic. Now that we’ve got a game tomorrow, which position battles/players should we be keeping a keen eye on?

Well all just my opinion but these are the most interesting position battles right now to me.

RB1: Johnny Augustine has been getting some regular reps with the #1's in camp. I had assumed Oliveira had the upper hand coming into camp but it appears like this is an open battle. I think it ends up in a time share and we'll see if either emerges as a #1 over the first half of the year, but it will be a battle.

WR4: If we consider Wolitarsky as the locked in #5, with Ellingson, Bailey and Demski locked in the top 3 spots, this open WR spot is pretty much wide open. Heard of everyone from returner Janarion Grant to canadian Brendan O'Leary-Orange to big Carlton Agudosi (albeit Agudosi hasn't practiced since an injury on Monday/Tuesday not in the lineup tonight) to rookies Dalton Schoen and Blake Jackson getting extended looks with the #1s so far in camp. This is a wide open battle, particularly in the wake of the Saunders news, as to who will slide in here.

DT1: Casey Sayles came into camp as the favourite here, but there's been talk of a few different guys stepping up in camp such as rookie Cedric Wilcots. The Bombers rotate quite a lot along the DL, including DE and DT rotating all along the DL so there's playing time to be had here depends who steps up.

SLB: This is the "dimeback" role. Might morph into more of a LB role again with the hashmarks moved in, but still seems most teams are treating this as more DB than LB. It was locked in with Mercy Maston, but he suffered what sounds like another devasting injury in camp (missed all of 2021 after an Archilles injury in camp last year). Right now CFL rookie and former Indianapolis Colt Donald Rutledge Jr appears to have the inside track, having played both CB and FS in the NFL/NCAA. But a few guys have had some looks.

FCB: The spot of departed DeAundre Alford. Right now it appears ex-Alouette Tyqwan Glass is the favourite for this spot, but there's a gaggle of rookie Americans as in the mix here as well as returning players DeMario Houston and rookie Canadians Patrice Rene and Tyrell Ford.

S: With Brandon Alexander expected to miss the first half of the year a few different canadians will get looks to open the year. Nick Hallett appears to be the front runner, but fellow canadians Tyrell Ford, Malcolm Thompson, Redhi Kramdi and perhaps Patrice Rene will also be getting looks here. Noah Hallett is also injured to start the year.

K: Liegghio has stated he worked very hard on his kicking game this off-season. He wants to win both roles. Mourtada will be helped by hash marks being brought in, so he'll get a chance as well.

P: Tom Hackett is one of the NCAA's all-time best punters. But he hasn't played football since a brief try-out with the Jets in 2016. Liegghio showed good directional punting in 2021, but certainly does not have the leg of a Hackett. But honestly Hackett when home when the strike started so I'm not sure if he's even back in Winnipeg yet.

MAYBE LG: I think Geoff Gray has this spot pretty much locked down, but there's a possibility Liam Dobson makes a push to start here.

BTW here's the roster for tonight's game. QB Zach Collaros is only one I've heard on this list that will not be dressing tonight.



Following the game the Bombers will need to release players down to 75. They currently have 98 in camp. However many guys in camp are "non-counters" such as USports mentorship QB Jackson Tachchinski, 4 Wpg Rifle try-outs players like Luke MacMillan, etc, a few players confirmed to return to school such as DT Cole Adamson, so it will probably be 10-15 cuts total following the game (probably tomorrow).
 
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Holden Caulfield

He's guilty
Feb 15, 2006
23,307
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Winnipeg
isnt there a 5 yr opt out clause

Full details will take a bit to come out. I believe that this was in the original agreement the PA negotiating committee agreed to but I didn't see it in the preliminary release about the CBA I saw last night (just said 7 year term). We'll see in the coming weeks as more details are released.
 

snowkiddin

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Well all just my opinion but these are the most interesting position battles right now to me.

RB1: Johnny Augustine has been getting some regular reps with the #1's in camp. I had assumed Oliveira had the upper hand coming into camp but it appears like this is an open battle. I think it ends up in a time share and we'll see if either emerges as a #1 over the first half of the year, but it will be a battle.

WR4: If we consider Wolitarsky as the locked in #5, with Ellingson, Bailey and Demski locked in the top 3 spots, this open WR spot is pretty much wide open. Heard of everyone from returner Janarion Grant to canadian Brendan O'Leary-Orange to big Carlton Agudosi (albeit Agudosi hasn't practiced since an injury on Monday/Tuesday not in the lineup tonight) to rookies Dalton Schoen and Blake Jackson getting extended looks with the #1s so far in camp. This is a wide open battle, particularly in the wake of the Saunders news, as to who will slide in here.

DT1: Casey Sayles came into camp as the favourite here, but there's been talk of a few different guys stepping up in camp such as rookie Cedric Wilcots. The Bombers rotate quite a lot along the DL, including DE and DT rotating all along the DL so there's playing time to be had here depends who steps up.

SLB: This is the "dimeback" role. Might morph into more of a LB role again with the hashmarks moved in, but still seems most teams are treating this as more DB than LB. It was locked in with Mercy Maston, but he suffered what sounds like another devasting injury in camp (missed all of 2021 after an Archilles injury in camp last year). Right now CFL rookie and former Indianapolis Colt Donald Rutledge Jr appears to have the inside track, having played both CB and FS in the NFL/NCAA. But a few guys have had some looks.

FCB: The spot of departed DeAundre Alford. Right now it appears ex-Alouette Tyqwan Glass is the favourite for this spot, but there's a gaggle of rookie Americans as in the mix here as well as returning players DeMario Houston and rookie Canadians Patrice Rene and Tyrell Ford.

S: With Brandon Alexander expected to miss the first half of the year a few different canadians will get looks to open the year. Nick Hallett appears to be the front runner, but fellow canadians Tyrell Ford, Malcolm Thompson, Redhi Kramdi and perhaps Patrice Rene will also be getting looks here. Noah Hallett is also injured to start the year.

K: Liegghio has stated he worked very hard on his kicking game this off-season. He wants to win both roles. Mourtada will be helped by hash marks being brought in, so he'll get a chance as well.

P: Tom Hackett is one of the NCAA's all-time best punters. But he hasn't played football since a brief try-out with the Jets in 2016. Liegghio showed good directional punting in 2021, but certainly does not have the leg of a Hackett. But honestly Hackett when home when the strike started so I'm not sure if he's even back in Winnipeg yet.

MAYBE LG: I think Geoff Gray has this spot pretty much locked down, but there's a possibility Liam Dobson makes a push to start here.

BTW here's the roster for tonight's game. QB Zach Collaros is only one I've heard on this list that will not be dressing tonight.



Following the game the Bombers will need to release players down to 75. They currently have 98 in camp. However many guys in camp are "non-counters" such as USports mentorship QB Jackson Tachchinski, 4 Wpg Rifle try-outs players like Luke MacMillan, etc, a few players confirmed to return to school such as DT Cole Adamson, so it will probably be 10-15 cuts total following the game (probably tomorrow).

Thanks for the detailed analysis.
 

WolfHouse

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Oct 4, 2020
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I want to see how the new hashmarks change the game for WIL... I think that position is under the most pressure - maybe Wilson ends up replaced by say tyquan glass? As it evolves into another sam type position
 
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snowkiddin

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Following the game the Bombers will need to release players down to 75. They currently have 98 in camp. However many guys in camp are "non-counters" such as USports mentorship QB Jackson Tachchinski, 4 Wpg Rifle try-outs players like Luke MacMillan, etc, a few players confirmed to return to school such as DT Cole Adamson, so it will probably be 10-15 cuts total following the game (probably tomorrow).
Should be lots of easy ones to make given how the game has gone so far.
 
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Holden Caulfield

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Should be lots of easy ones to make given how the game has gone so far.

I mean its fine. Who cares about results today? Just fun to have game back.

Some stand out performances. Tomoya Machino looked great on the interior of the OL. Johnny Augustine chewing yards. Dalton Schoen looks like a dependable guy. Donald Rutledge has shown some burst. Greg McCrae has looked very fast in the return game. Cole Adamson with a beast move splitting a double team for a sack.
 

snowkiddin

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I mean its fine. Who cares about results today? Just fun to have game back.

Some stand out performances. Tomoya Machino looked great on the interior of the OL. Johnny Augustine chewing yards. Dalton Schoen looks like a dependable guy. Donald Rutledge has shown some burst. Greg McCrae has looked very fast in the return game. Cole Adamson with a beast move splitting a double team for a sack.
Agreed. Looks like we need a kicker again though. That’s a shame.

Much like last year though this season is largely dependent on Collaros’s health. But most teams are in the same situation with their QB.
 

snowkiddin

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Bombers should sign whichever one of these QBs Edmonton cuts tomorrow. They’ve all shown way more than either of our guys.
 
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