Blackwood/Vanecek/We Really Need to Move On/Goalie Thread

[Bleedred]

I've said it time and again that VV is the better goalie, but not bc of your incessant raging and nonsensical VV 'would've stopped that' BS.

Almost as perplexing as Jim's inability to be happy is your ability to lock onto minor cogs like backup goaltenders and fourth line forwards and bottom pair DMen as the root of all that is evil with a team.

Last night was about three forwards flying the zone and leaving Graves to make a stupid pass, Sharangovich not competing at all, Severson classically unable to tie up sticks and just general bad hockey for 2.5 periods.

Since you're an unabashed goalie expert, you should know your 'softie' was the result of the classic pad high to blocker side shot looking for a rebound and perfectly executed.
Feel free to @ me back with how a goalie can trap and freeze that. The only play was to send it to the other corner.

At least have some sense if THAT is your best take.

Like I said, I didn't think he was THAT bad last night. I thought he could have had the game winner that sent them up two goals, before we pulled him and brought it to within one. And he should have never have had to kill the penalty that they gave him, that was BS.

Like I said, I thought he was worse against Seattle. Two short side shots that I don't know how they don't peg this oaf like most of the other 8 foot tall goalies in the league with their cone like shoulder risers. And then the PATHETIC game winner and imaginary deflection.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Like I said, I didn't think he was THAT bad last night. I thought he could have had the game winner that sent them up two goals, before we pulled him and brought it to within one. And he should have never have had to kill the penalty that they gave him, that was BS.

Like I said, I thought he was worse against Seattle. Two short side shots that I don't know how they don't peg this oaf like most of the other 8 foot tall goalies in the league. And then the PATHETIC game winner and imaginary deflection.

No. You need to type the following:

"Mackenzie Blackwood gave us above average goaltending the past two starts."

Because he did.

Your Seattle takes are bad too. Seattle had over 80 shot attempts. One goal was a top shelf laser that was a mirror reflection of goals for which Hughes has been lauded all season and the gw deflection was verified by the shooter in the post game interview saying 'he got Lucky' and it changed direction.

C'mon bleed. Say it with me...

...above avg goaltending...
We are getting above avg goaltending...

;-)

 

[Devils731]

No. You need to type the following:

"Mackenzie Blackwood gave us above average goaltending the past two starts."

Because he did.

Your Seattle takes are bad too. Seattle had over 80 shot attempts. One goal was a top shelf laser that was a mirror reflection of goals for which Hughes has been lauded all season and the gw deflection was verified by the shooter in the post game interview saying 'he got Lucky' and it changed direction.

C'mon bleed. Say it with me...

...above avg goaltending...
We are getting above avg goaltending...

;-)

The deflection this is weird, you can hear it, see it, and the player acknowledged it happened but I’ve discussed with people off this board where they swear it didn’t happen, even after we review everything above.

 

[Guttersniped]

This is utter bullshit. This notion that is was just goaltending.

And of all days to make this comment after last night you should know better...last night was the absolute epitome of what we saw for the last 3 years...it was an ugly flashback and part of the reason I'm not in a very good mood today...

You could've had Hasek in goal last night and wouldn't have changed the results...and that is 100% true about the prior 3 years.

Watch Last night's game again then talk to me about goaltending and gradual improvement.

It’s not “just goaltending” and no one says that but a NHL team needs NHL caliber goaltenders.

Plenty of posters ripped Ruff’s defensive system, particularly the swarm defense around the net. Plenty of posters complain about poor defensive play and went nuts for guys like Siegenthaler and Marino when they showed real shutdown chops.

Also teams play better defensively at certain times in the season and worse at other times. Good goaltending also helps a team play good defensively.

But if a goalie is playing with an injury or has never played professionally before that season or is an AHL scrub, there’s a real chance it won’t go well.

If we had Hasek over the last three years we definitely would have done better. I mean, Hasek was really great. Hasek would have done way better than Dell, Gillies, gimpy starters and some kids out of juniors, etc.

I don’t know why that fantasy alternative matters at all or who cares about it, but he definitely would have.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Thought this was interesting:

 

[JimEIV]

It’s not “just goaltending” and no one says that but a NHL team needs NHL caliber goaltenders.

Maybe you haven't been paying close attention? Plenty of people have said exactly that...some have gone as far to say "we would have been a playoff team with NHL average goaltending "

Not once or twice either...it has been said regularly for a year.

Yes, a team needs adequate goaltending...but no amount of adequate goaltending was going to change the fortunes of last year or the last 3 years for that matter.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Maybe you haven't been paying close attention? Plenty of people have said exactly that...some have gone as far to say "we would have been a playoff team with NHL average goaltending "

Not once or twice either...it has been said regularly for a year.

Yes, a team needs adequate goaltending...but no amount of adequate goaltending was going to change the fortunes of last year or the last 3 years for that matter.

Anyone claiming they would be 35 points better with goaltending last year, mistaken.

Claiming they WOULDN'T have been 15 points better though, also mistaken.

The answer truly lies somewhere in the middle (for a change).

 

[TrufleShufle]

Anyone claiming they would be 35 points better with goaltending last year, mistaken.

Claiming they WOULDN'T have been 15 points better though, also mistaken.
The answer truly lies somewhere in the middle (for a change).

The answer truly lies somewhere in the middle (for a change always).

 

[NJDevs26]

Maybe you haven't been paying close attention? Plenty of people have said exactly that...some have gone as far to say "we would have been a playoff team with NHL average goaltending "

Not once or twice either...it has been said regularly for a year.

Yes, a team needs adequate goaltending...but no amount of adequate goaltending was going to change the fortunes of last year or the last 3 years for that matter.

Appreciably change their fortunes in terms of the playoff chase no, give you the incremental improvement you complain we never saw last year, a lot more likely.

The narrative on ‘being worse for three straight years’ changes a little if a healthy Bernier/Mac tandem gets us to 80-ish points as opposed to the dumpster fire that was last year with 50/82 games being started by castoffs and rookies, and the 32 that Blackwood and Bernier did play, they were nursing injury in a lot of them. Until Blackwood came back for the final couple of games last year Nico Daws led the team in starts, this year he’s a poor #1B in Utica

 

[Bleedred]

Has anyone seen what Jon Gillies has done in the AHL this year for Tucson?

We may have actually been making him look better, rather than making him look worse.

How about the Hamburglar? Where's he? Retired. Guess how many pro games he played after playing here? 2...... In the KHL.

And it's same old, same old from Blackwood. It's fair to point out that he is indeed a plus in GSAx, I've pointed that out already. But if we're going by that, this is his FIRST season in the NHL with a positive GSAx on evolving hockey and second on money puck? His first two seasons he was still a slight negative on evolving hockey's GSAx stats. I think he was slightly a positive in 19-20 on moneypuck but not 18-19.

He's never had a season in the NHL in GSAx as good as Vitek's current season

Not even close to it. And that's the only reason anybody thinks he could be something. Because of THREE years ago. And it wasn't even overly impressive, although it was compared to everything since.

And his AHL career sucked as well, and that was YEARS before covid, injuries or at least the current-ish ones.

 

[Bleedred]

The deflection this is weird, you can hear it, see it, and the player acknowledged it happened but I’ve discussed with people off this board where they swear it didn’t happen, even after we review everything above.

The shooter's (Burakovsky I think?) stick blade made contact with Bratt's stickblade. I'm pretty certain it didn't actually deflect, but you can argue that changed it up marginally. I think Burakovsky was mistaken that it was deflected (probably because of how f***in baby shit soft the goal was) and it was really the two stick blades intersecting.

If this deflected the puck, it was extremely marginal. I don't think it's too much to ask an NHL caliber goalie to stop that shot. He was still square to it, it's not dramatically changed directions if it did at all.

Goalies STOP deflections, even harder ones than that. Even Blackwood has stopped trickier deflections than that. And those types of ''Deflections'' beat goalies like Blackwood (who isn't any good) more than the actual good goalies.

 

[MasterofGrond]

So obviously take all "shot danger" metrics with a ton of salt, but moneypuck has Blackwood as well above expected against high danger chances, fine against medium danger chances, and real f***in bad against low danger chances. I think this tracks with how I view him, and is why people are so willing to say stuff like "he kept us in it" because he is definitely stopping some hard shots only to absolutely f***in blow it with multiple softies.

Vanaecek is the opposite, pretty bad against HD chances, good against MD, and solid against LD. And overall this has made him a significantly better goalie this year. Being good against the hard stuff really doesn't matter if you're going to get beat by floaters regularly.

 

[Devils731]

The shooter's (Burakovsky I think?) stick blade made contact with Bratt's stickblade. I'm pretty certain it didn't actually deflect, but you can argue that changed it up marginally. I think Burakovsky was mistaken that it was deflected (probably because of how f***in baby shit soft the goal was) and it was really the two stick blades intersecting.

If this deflected the puck, it was extremely marginal. I don't think it's too much to ask an NHL caliber goalie to stop that shot. He was still square to it, it's not dramatically changed directions if it did at all.

Goalies STOP deflections, even harder ones than that. Even Blackwood has stopped trickier deflections than that. And those types of ''Deflections'' beat goalies like Blackwood (who isn't any good) more than the actual good goalies.

I do find it weird that you’re saying the guy who shot the puck has no idea what he was trying to do and must be wrong when he said the puck went somewhere other than he intended.

Burakovsky’s body and stick both said the puck was going one place and Burakovsky says the puck went somewhere completely different. You can also see Blackwood tried to adjust to the puck going somewhere completely unexpected based on the body and stick of the player.

The player shooting literally said it was deflected and changed the shot dramatically but you’re saying he’s wrong.

 

[MasterofGrond]

That puck still went under his pad from a position and timing where Blackwood (should have) had time to set up for it. Deflection or no it's a bad goal. Not like it got kicked to the top corner or something.

 

[Bleedred]

I do find it weird that you’re saying the guy who shot the puck has no idea what he was trying to do and must be wrong when he said the puck went somewhere other than he intended.

Burakovsky’s body and stick both said the puck was going one place and Burakovsky says the puck went somewhere completely different. You can also see Blackwood tried to adjust to the puck going somewhere completely unexpected based on the body and stick of the player.

The player shooting literally said it was deflected and changed the shot dramatically but you’re saying he’s wrong.

The replay looks more like the stick blades touched each other, than Bratt's stick touching the puck.

I can't 100% say for sure, as there's no camera angle on the other side of the sticks/puck on that goal. I mean there probably is, but I have no access.

And let's just say I'm wrong, okay? I still think I'm right in saying a goalie needs to make that save. It was headed straight for him and right through the 5-hole.

But Blackwood is not a good goaltender, he's one of the worst in the NHL. Which is why he barely plays anymore here, because it's basically the difference between 13-14 Brodeur and Schneider, only Blackwood isn't a has-been, he's a never-was. And he's not a legend that they're too afraid to bench. Even though there was a point they were hoping and praying that things would change with him.

So, fine, I'll go along with it and say it was deflected. I still don't think it was, but I can't prove it. But I also say MAKE A f***ING SAVE GUY!

The people that RUN to defend this guy (there ain't many anymore) are insane. He's one of the most popular BAD players we've had. All because of a good season 3 years ago that's now been at least matched, if not topped by another goalie on the same team that he's still struggling to get to get above .890%-something for the last 70 games. 70 games of .893%, 14 games of .894% this year. He's not getting any better. He doesn't appear to be ''Bouncing back''. And he wasn't even a good goalie in the AHL before he even made his NHL debut.

And I don't even wanna read ''save percentage doesn't f***in matter!'' because there's TWO other goalies on this team with far superior numbers, behind the same team. Both have been better than him this year at every metric, including WINNING.

 

[The Devil In I]

I do find it weird that you’re saying the guy who shot the puck has no idea what he was trying to do and must be wrong when he said the puck went somewhere other than he intended.

Burakovsky’s body and stick both said the puck was going one place and Burakovsky says the puck went somewhere completely different. You can also see Blackwood tried to adjust to the puck going somewhere completely unexpected based on the body and stick of the player.

The player shooting literally said it was deflected and changed the shot dramatically but you’re saying he’s wrong.

It's like the hockey equivalent of a changeup pitch rather than an actual deflection, but yea it's still called a deflection even if the puck may not have actually been tipped by someone else.

 

[Bleedred]

It's like the hockey equivalent of a changeup pitch rather than an actual deflection, but yea it's still called a deflection even if the puck may not have actually been tipped by someone else.

Doesn't change the fact that goalies stop those shots more than you think. They don't go in often, that's why you don't realize it and they get caught up in the goalie's pads and nothing is made of it.

Blackwood is not a good goalie though. So there's a lot of goals on him that get scored on him that aren't goals on your average NHL goalie because he's not any good. And it's been that way for quite some time.

There's also a lot of shots that go in on this big dumb oaf, that are sure goals on Aaron Dell or Nedeljkovic, because they're only 5 foot 8 and yet they still go past him at like 6 foot 8.

Somewhat hyperbolizing those heights a little bit.

 

[The Devil In I]

Doesn't change the fact that goalies stop those shots more than you think. They don't go in often, that's why you don't realize it and they get caught up in the goalie's pads and nothing is made of it.

Blackwood is not a good goalie though. So there's a lot of goals on him that get scored on him that aren't goals on your average NHL goalie because he's not any good. And it's been that way for quite some time.

There's also a lot of shots that go in on this big dumb oaf, that are sure goals on Aaron Dell or Nedeljkovic, because they're only 5 foot 8 and yet they still go past him at like 6 foot 8.

Somewhat hyperbolizing those heights a little bit.

lol k

 

[My3Sons]

Doesn't change the fact that goalies stop those shots more than you think. They don't go in often, that's why you don't realize it and they get caught up in the goalie's pads and nothing is made of it.

Blackwood is not a good goalie though. So there's a lot of goals on him that get scored on him that aren't goals on your average NHL goalie because he's not any good. And it's been that way for quite some time.

There's also a lot of shots that go in on this big dumb oaf, that are sure goals on Aaron Dell or Nedeljkovic, because they're only 5 foot 8 and yet they still go past him at like 6 foot 8.

Somewhat hyperbolizing those heights a little bit.

Yeah well someday Blackwood is gonna be in the AHL and what are you going to say then smart guy? You will see!!! Blackwood may be a bad or at least wildly inoconsistent and injury prone but he is trained in the healing arts from Facebook!!! You will eat crow!!

 

[Bleedred]

lol k

The only thing funny is the fact that we have a bottom-5 goalie in the NHL on our roster.

But that's more sad than anything.

Like I said, one of the most popular BAD players I've ever seen on the Devils. We've had old washed up has-been's that were just done, but used to be good, but just got too old and were still popular, but this guy got A LOT of MILEAGE out of particularly that 19-20 season.

Maybe mileage is the wrong word, as that would confuse one to believe he's gotten a lot of games, which was not what I meant. He's gotten a lot of fanfare and a lot of hope and faith based on that season.

And he wasn't even good in the AHL. It's not like he went to bed, woke up with covid and that's the only bad stretch of his pro hockey career. His AHL career was a joke years before that. He's been a BAD goaltender at the pro hockey level more than he's been good.

 

[My3Sons]

The only thing funny is the fact that we have a bottom-5 goalie in the NHL on our roster.

But that's more sad than anything.

Like I said, one of the most popular BAD players I've ever seen on the Devils. We've had old washed up has-been's that were just done, but used to be good, but just got too old and were still popular, but this guy got A LOT of MILEAGE out of particularly that 19-20 season.

Maybe mileage is the wrong word, as that would confuse one to believe he's gotten a lot of games, which was not what I meant. He's gotten a lot of fanfare and a lot of hope and faith based on that season.

And he wasn't even good in the AHL. It's not like he went to bed, woke up with covid and that's the only bad stretch of his pro hockey career. His AHL career was a joke years before that. He's been a BAD goaltender at the pro hockey level more than he's been good.

The NFL calls guys like Blackwood coach killers. The local radio guy used to say about guys like him they “Look like Tarzan and play like Jane”. Blackwood has every physical attribute and flashes enough big saves that you can’t imagine he will give up such bad softies in and moments but he does. He has just enough good games to hang around while they wait for him to master the game but he never really improves. He’s more or less the same goalie at 26 he was at 21. I understand why the organization has given him as much of a leash as they have. Why not? They were losing anyway and maybe he would put it all together. It just hasn’t happened. Maybe a good goalie coach can get him to achieve stability but it will almost certainly be somewhere else next season. Frankly I’ll miss him. The two of you have a unique relationship that the rest of us get to observe from a safe distance .

 

[DerekDevils30]

Sounds like Schmid was a wall tonight for Utica. He’s been playing very well as of late and is top in GAA in the AHL. Probably won’t happen this season but I think next season you run with a Vanecek/Schmid tandem. He showed well for us earlier this year and I think he’s ready to be a backup at the NHL level.

 

[Guadana]

Was fun to read reactions after nashville game and how one game represent everything before, especially previous seasons. Every team have defensive brain downs. For questions like that you have average statistics. If one goalie drop everything and other stop a lot more, than you have answers for your questions, same with team stats - basic and advanced. And some how only game should should that goalie, who missed more than any other goalie in the league with less average danger chances wasn`t fault, because in one game he didn`t protect the team in situations where defensemen were obviously fault.

And the comments about "nashville is better" were fun too. Devils didn`t play well after travel through the season. Because they are people and it`s really hard to show maximum of physical form after travel.

Devils are not the best team in the league, especially in january, but they are good. And they were average previous season. There are tonns of stats that represent it, same stat that works this season. Without Marino it`s the same defensive roster minus Smith plus Smith plus Vanecek.


Goalies are making so big impact you can see it with Devils and Vanecek on the ice, you can see it in previous season with Sorokin on the ice(and Varlamov wasn`t bad, islanders were), with Shestyorkin and Gergiev etc. And of course you can have offensive juggernaut like Toronto that win games even with bad goaltending.

I really don`t understand how and why people still defend Blackwood. And try to not admit that he was huge fault of previous season disaster. +\- Same defense, Hughes was productive, Nico produced 60 points in 70 games, Jack produced more than 1 ppg, Bratt produced 73 points in 76 games. Great we have Marino, if he will return with the same form, Devils will be even better. But, oh gdf, how I tired to read same story day after day how Blackwood wasn`t fault and goalies don`t matter. Blackwood was overused, injured etc, but he play poorly. Now anything didn`t changed. He didn`t save the game against Nashville and will never do it, because he was very bad against breakaways allways.

Freaking average teams like rangers and islanders played in ECF three years in a row only because their goaltending.

I hope when he will be traded or not signed this summer, this topic will close. I wish he will find himself in the new place.

 

[Blender]

Sounds like Schmid was a wall tonight for Utica. He’s been playing very well as of late and is top in GAA in the AHL. Probably won’t happen this season but I think next season you run with a Vanecek/Schmid tandem. He showed well for us earlier this year and I think he’s ready to be a backup at the NHL level.

He dipped for a while after he got sent down after playing really well for us. Young player I assume got a confidence hit from being sidelined by Blackwood after standing on his head for us.

 

[Bleedred]

Was fun to read reactions after nashville game and how one game represent everything before, especially previous seasons. Every team have defensive brain downs. For questions like that you have average statistics. If one goalie drop everything and other stop a lot more, than you have answers for your questions, same with team stats - basic and advanced. And some how only game should should that goalie, who missed more than any other goalie in the league with less average danger chances wasn`t fault, because in one game he didn`t protect the team in situations where defensemen were obviously fault.

And the comments about "nashville is better" were fun too. Devils didn`t play well after travel through the season. Because they are people and it`s really hard to show maximum of physical form after travel.

Devils are not the best team in the league, especially in january, but they are good. And they were average previous season. There are tonns of stats that represent it, same stat that works this season. Without Marino it`s the same defensive roster minus Smith plus Smith plus Vanecek.


Goalies are making so big impact you can see it with Devils and Vanecek on the ice, you can see it in previous season with Sorokin on the ice(and Varlamov wasn`t bad, islanders were), with Shestyorkin and Gergiev etc. And of course you can have offensive juggernaut like Toronto that win games even with bad goaltending.

I really don`t understand how and why people still defend Blackwood. And try to not admit that he was huge fault of previous season disaster. +\- Same defense, Hughes was productive, Nico produced 60 points in 70 games, Jack produced more than 1 ppg, Bratt produced 73 points in 76 games. Great we have Marino, if he will return with the same form, Devils will be even better. But, oh gdf, how I tired to read same story day after day how Blackwood wasn`t fault and goalies don`t matter. Blackwood was overused, injured etc, but he play poorly. Now anything didn`t changed. He didn`t save the game against Nashville and will never do it, because he was very bad against breakaways allways.

Freaking average teams like rangers and islanders played in ECF three years in a row only because their goaltending.

I hope when he will be traded or not signed this summer, this topic will close. I wish he will find himself in the new place.

Obviously I agree with all of this

And I don't see any way he's back next year, as the worst one year deal in the league next year would be whatever one year deal pays him his qualifying offer. He's not worth anything close to it.

The only way I see him back is if it's for WAAYYYYYYYY lower than his qualifying offer and for the second year in a row he can't get above .900%, not even when the other goalie is performing significantly above that, as well as winning at a greater clip than he is. And he's been an .893% goalie over the last 69 games, from game 6 of the 20-21 season onward. Those first 5 games of .939% keep him at .902% on that season as a whole.

His February of 2020 (6-0-1, .966%, 2 shutouts) was one of the best months of Devils goaltending ever and gave us some good hope, but he hasn't come close to that since.

I wish him well, but he's not the better goaltender on this team and hasn't been since better than Vanecek since Vanecek entered the NHL.

For what it's worth, I don't think he played badly against Nashville, but I also don't think he played as well as his game in Seattle, where he allowed two short side goals and the coup de grace with the very soft OT winner. Change up or not.

He played well against Florida and LA, but every other game since he's been back (including in relief in Carolina) has been anywhere from just okay (Nashville game, Carolina game) to terrible, like the Boston game where he was yanked. His Carolina game would have been good if not for the horrendous gaffe.