Toggle sidebar

Management Bill Guerin

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates

How is Guerin Doing?

  • Total voters
    228
thestonedkoala said:
Basically forcing a mini rebuild and not getting any value for any of the players he traded away. Thank God Fiala turned out as a good as he was. But Rask and Donato. Also just in general the clean up of his personal issues.
Click to expand...
I think the better way to look at this is that Fenton was the hatchet man that got fired for being mean, which opened a door for Guerin to come off as the good guy on Day 1. I think a lot of the goodwill that Guerin still seems to enjoy goes back to that.

His tenure was short and volatile, but Fenton left behind Zuccarello, Fiala and Boldy and no long term problems that I can think of. Some opportunity costs (like the Johansson pick), but that's about it.
 
thestonedkoala said:
Basically forcing a mini rebuild and not getting any value for any of the players he traded away. Thank God Fiala turned out as a good as he was. But Rask and Donato. Also just in general the clean up of his personal issues.
Click to expand...
He had a lot of minor trades, but I'll talk on some of the most meaningful ones.


Fenton Trades:
- For a 2nd line PF, Niederreiter, he got a 4th line center, Rask. Bad trade, yeah, but not one that destroyed the franchise.
- For a 3rd line C, Coyle, he got a potential scoring winger, Donato. Didn't work out, that happens.
- Traded a 1st line W, Granlund, for a younger scoring wing, Fiala. Fiala has been the significantly better scorer of the two.

- A lot of his more minor trades ended up being real wins, like the trade for Brad Hunt and Nesterenko, or the swap of 3rd rounders that led to Adam Beckman. Not hugely impactful, but just good value followed by decent drafting.


Of those 3 big trades, I think you can reasonably say he lost two of them, to different degrees. The one he won though was a huge win. If those were all packed into one deal it would be:

Coye+Nino+Granlund for Fiala+Rask+Donato+NYR's 2019 4th (Cade Webber).

The Wild gave up the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best players, but gained the best one. It's an ok value, certainly not in "screwing the next GM" territory. He also signed Zuccarello. For all Fenton's faults, he actually did the least long-lasting damage to the team of all their GMs.
 
thestonedkoala said:
Basically forcing a mini rebuild and not getting any value for any of the players he traded away. Thank God Fiala turned out as a good as he was. But Rask and Donato. Also just in general the clean up of his personal issues.
Click to expand...
I was going to mention F. Jo, which is fair, as he has been a nothing burger. It's not like players immediately after him have turned out to be anything of note, for the most part. However, he picked McBain in the 3rd, which eventually turned into Hunter Haight, as well as Dewar, who is now a regular. S Jo was picked in the 5th round, who is a decent AHL player. Khovanov washed out out, but he was a 3rd rounder.

As much as i thought he was an arrogant arse who was unsuited to be a GM, he did have some scouting skills.
 
BagHead said:
The Wild gave up the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best players, but gained the best one. It's an ok value, certainly not in "screwing the next GM" territory. He also signed Zuccarello. For all Fenton's faults, he actually did the least long-lasting damage to the team of all their GMs.
Click to expand...

Don't forget Fenton also signed Hartman, closest thing we have to acquiring a top 6 center.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: MNRube and BagHead
And then there was the Anthony Bitetto acquisition, where Boudreau more or less indicated that he was forced to play him.

It's Billy's world, and we're all just living in it.
 
57special said:
And then there was the Anthony Bitetto acquisition, where Boudreau more or less indicated that he was forced to play him.

It's Billy's world, and we're all just living in it.
Click to expand...
I think that was Fenton that forced Bruce to play Bitetto. Fenton's failings were really from a face-to-face standpoint. Not a people person.
 
BagHead said:
I think that was Fenton that forced Bruce to play Bitetto. Fenton's failings were really from a face-to-face standpoint. Not a people person.
Click to expand...
I always meant Fenton.

I just want to end every post i have by shitting on Guerin, after his giving that awful Foligno contract.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Sweetnut and BagHead
BagHead said:
He had a lot of minor trades, but I'll talk on some of the most meaningful ones.


Fenton Trades:
- For a 2nd line PF, Niederreiter, he got a 4th line center, Rask. Bad trade, yeah, but not one that destroyed the franchise.
- For a 3rd line C, Coyle, he got a potential scoring winger, Donato. Didn't work out, that happens.
- Traded a 1st line W, Granlund, for a younger scoring wing, Fiala. Fiala has been the significantly better scorer of the two.

- A lot of his more minor trades ended up being real wins, like the trade for Brad Hunt and Nesterenko, or the swap of 3rd rounders that led to Adam Beckman. Not hugely impactful, but just good value followed by decent drafting.


Of those 3 big trades, I think you can reasonably say he lost two of them, to different degrees. The one he won though was a huge win. If those were all packed into one deal it would be:

Coye+Nino+Granlund for Fiala+Rask+Donato+NYR's 2019 4th (Cade Webber).

The Wild gave up the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best players, but gained the best one. It's an ok value, certainly not in "screwing the next GM" territory. He also signed Zuccarello. For all Fenton's faults, he actually did the least long-lasting damage to the team of all their GMs.
Click to expand...
Fair, but he was only here for a yearish. We can all be lucky, because I feel like he would have done a worse job. As is tradition in Minnesota.
 
The commentary on Guerin is great in this podcast: 32 Thoughts: The Podcast

26:00

Friedman suggests Michael Lewis follow Guerin around for a year because he's the "anti-moneyball." "Uniquely impulsive" about sums it up -- they're not dumping on him, just stating facts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BagHead
Saga of the Elk said:
The commentary on Guerin is great in this podcast: 32 Thoughts: The Podcast

26:00

Friedman suggests Michael Lewis follow Guerin around for a year because he's the "anti-moneyball." "Uniquely impulsive" about sums it up -- they're not dumping on him, just stating facts.
Click to expand...
If the way he negotiates is coming in, saying "this is my number, take it or leave it," it makes sense why Fiala and Kaprizov's contracts took so long. I get the impression that Guerin doesn't lowball players as some have suggested, he just offers what he thinks a player is worth to the Wild and won't budge.

He and I are very different people, and that's why I'd love to follow him for a year.
 
"Doesn't try to create a market for a player he wants to trade, just decides what he wants" (and takes the first offer he gets that matches?)

Nice.

BagHead said:
If the way he negotiates is coming in, saying "this is my number, take it or leave it," it makes sense why Fiala and Kaprizov's contracts took so long. I get the impression that Guerin doesn't lowball players as some have suggested, he just offers what he thinks a player is worth to the Wild and won't budge.

He and I are very different people, and that's why I'd love to follow him for a year.
Click to expand...

Doesn't do it *intentionally*, anyway

I think the things he values and the way he comes to the end number is busted

It also makes me wonder about the Hartman negotiations, if the rumor is between 3-4M like Russo kinda reported, and Hartman thinks he should get more than Foligno? And Guerin won't budge?
 
AKL said:
"Doesn't try to create a market for a player he wants to trade, just decides what he wants" (and takes the first offer he gets that matches?)

Nice.



Doesn't do it *intentionally*, anyway

I think the things he values and the way he comes to the end number is busted

It also makes me wonder about the Hartman negotiations, if the rumor is between 3-4M like Russo kinda reported, and Hartman thinks he should get more than Foligno? And Guerin won't budge?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think that's the danger of his approach. His fair value may be different enough from a player's perception of their fair value that it gets hard to get anything done, especially if that player also is resistant to compromising.
 
I actually have no problem with the practice described, or just pointing to the roster plan/salary cap situation and just say, "this is the most that I can offer you". I would just re-organize the players he seems to prioritize in these scenarios.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thestonedkoala
BagHead said:
Yeah, I think that's the danger of his approach. His fair value may be different enough from a player's perception of their fair value that it gets hard to get anything done, especially if that player also is resistant to compromising.
Click to expand...

Well it may not even be just the players' perception of their own value. Fiala got just about 8M on a long term deal, like he wanted. He probably gets around that from most teams (at least the teams that can afford it). If Guerin was offering him 5 years at 6M or something, and that's all Guerin thought his value was, Guerin was the one that's in the wrong, not Fiala. And Fiala shouldn't have to compromise for that. The fans are the ones that end up losing here.
 
Just waiting for the news to break. Billy G is yeeting 6 mil in Hartmans direction with NMC to boot. Let´s say 6 years because why not?
 
Term is great for guys like Boldy or JEE but not sure why we need to giving it out to every role player.
 
I like Hartman a lot, he’s flexible in the lineup, and a good shooter on a team desperate for one. I wouldn’t have a problem committing to him.
 
I like Hartman too, seems like a versatile player more so than the likes of Foligno & Freddy G. But again, he only scored more than 20 goals once. Not too sure about how to value that kind of production on a already low scoring team.
Johansson was lowballed into $2 mil, and he has more of a scoring touch in my opinion. I would like to see Hartman get $3,5x4, but I think that may be impossible now when Fooligno got $4 mil
 
Dr Jan Itor said:
Our current contract situations...

Hate
Foligno

Dislike
Fleury, Goligoski

Neutral/Fine
Spurgeon, Middleton, Zuccarello, Duhaime

Like
Kaprizov, Boldy, Gaudreau, Brodin, Gustavsson

Love
Eriksson Ek, Johansson, Hartman
Click to expand...
Only change I'd make is bumping Spurgeon to the dislike column above, but otherwise, spot on.
 
TaLoN said:
Only change I'd make is bumping Spurgeon to the dislike column above, but otherwise, spot on.
Click to expand...
I give the Spurgeon contract some credit for being done prior to the Covid seasons/flat cap. Also that it doesn't have an NMC all the way through. But it's close. At the time, I was hoping for not a whole lot more than 6 x $6.5M

Plus, our defense with Spurgeon out to start the season looks pretty ugly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom