Management Bill Guerin
- Thread starter BuiumSaveUs
- Start date
I think the better way to look at this is that Fenton was the hatchet man that got fired for being mean, which opened a door for Guerin to come off as the good guy on Day 1. I think a lot of the goodwill that Guerin still seems to enjoy goes back to that.
His tenure was short and volatile, but Fenton left behind Zuccarello, Fiala and Boldy and no long term problems that I can think of. Some opportunity costs (like the Johansson pick), but that's about it.
BagHead
Registered User
He had a lot of minor trades, but I'll talk on some of the most meaningful ones.
Fenton Trades:
- For a 2nd line PF, Niederreiter, he got a 4th line center, Rask. Bad trade, yeah, but not one that destroyed the franchise.
- For a 3rd line C, Coyle, he got a potential scoring winger, Donato. Didn't work out, that happens.
- Traded a 1st line W, Granlund, for a younger scoring wing, Fiala. Fiala has been the significantly better scorer of the two.
- A lot of his more minor trades ended up being real wins, like the trade for Brad Hunt and Nesterenko, or the swap of 3rd rounders that led to Adam Beckman. Not hugely impactful, but just good value followed by decent drafting.
Of those 3 big trades, I think you can reasonably say he lost two of them, to different degrees. The one he won though was a huge win. If those were all packed into one deal it would be:
Coye+Nino+Granlund for Fiala+Rask+Donato+NYR's 2019 4th (Cade Webber).
The Wild gave up the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best players, but gained the best one. It's an ok value, certainly not in "screwing the next GM" territory. He also signed Zuccarello. For all Fenton's faults, he actually did the least long-lasting damage to the team of all their GMs.
I was going to mention F. Jo, which is fair, as he has been a nothing burger. It's not like players immediately after him have turned out to be anything of note, for the most part. However, he picked McBain in the 3rd, which eventually turned into Hunter Haight, as well as Dewar, who is now a regular. S Jo was picked in the 5th round, who is a decent AHL player. Khovanov washed out out, but he was a 3rd rounder.
As much as i thought he was an arrogant arse who was unsuited to be a GM, he did have some scouting skills.
- Aug 9, 2011
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Don't forget Fenton also signed Hartman, closest thing we have to acquiring a top 6 center.
BagHead
Registered User
I think that was Fenton that forced Bruce to play Bitetto. Fenton's failings were really from a face-to-face standpoint. Not a people person.
I always meant Fenton.
I just want to end every post i have by shitting on Guerin, after his giving that awful Foligno contract.
Fair, but he was only here for a yearish. We can all be lucky, because I feel like he would have done a worse job. As is tradition in Minnesota.
GordieGallant
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Saga of the Elk
Honoured Person
- May 31, 2008
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The commentary on Guerin is great in this podcast: 32 Thoughts: The Podcast
26:00
Friedman suggests Michael Lewis follow Guerin around for a year because he's the "anti-moneyball." "Uniquely impulsive" about sums it up -- they're not dumping on him, just stating facts.
26:00
Friedman suggests Michael Lewis follow Guerin around for a year because he's the "anti-moneyball." "Uniquely impulsive" about sums it up -- they're not dumping on him, just stating facts.
BagHead
Registered User
If the way he negotiates is coming in, saying "this is my number, take it or leave it," it makes sense why Fiala and Kaprizov's contracts took so long. I get the impression that Guerin doesn't lowball players as some have suggested, he just offers what he thinks a player is worth to the Wild and won't budge.
He and I are very different people, and that's why I'd love to follow him for a year.
- Dec 10, 2012
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"Doesn't try to create a market for a player he wants to trade, just decides what he wants" (and takes the first offer he gets that matches?)
Nice.
Doesn't do it *intentionally*, anyway
I think the things he values and the way he comes to the end number is busted
It also makes me wonder about the Hartman negotiations, if the rumor is between 3-4M like Russo kinda reported, and Hartman thinks he should get more than Foligno? And Guerin won't budge?
Nice.
Doesn't do it *intentionally*, anyway
I think the things he values and the way he comes to the end number is busted
It also makes me wonder about the Hartman negotiations, if the rumor is between 3-4M like Russo kinda reported, and Hartman thinks he should get more than Foligno? And Guerin won't budge?
BagHead
Registered User
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I actually have no problem with the practice described, or just pointing to the roster plan/salary cap situation and just say, "this is the most that I can offer you". I would just re-organize the players he seems to prioritize in these scenarios.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Well it may not even be just the players' perception of their own value. Fiala got just about 8M on a long term deal, like he wanted. He probably gets around that from most teams (at least the teams that can afford it). If Guerin was offering him 5 years at 6M or something, and that's all Guerin thought his value was, Guerin was the one that's in the wrong, not Fiala. And Fiala shouldn't have to compromise for that. The fans are the ones that end up losing here.
Term is great for guys like Boldy or JEE but not sure why we need to giving it out to every role player.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I like Hartman a lot, he’s flexible in the lineup, and a good shooter on a team desperate for one. I wouldn’t have a problem committing to him.
- Mar 19, 2023
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I like Hartman too, seems like a versatile player more so than the likes of Foligno & Freddy G. But again, he only scored more than 20 goals once. Not too sure about how to value that kind of production on a already low scoring team.
Johansson was lowballed into $2 mil, and he has more of a scoring touch in my opinion. I would like to see Hartman get $3,5x4, but I think that may be impossible now when Fooligno got $4 mil
Johansson was lowballed into $2 mil, and he has more of a scoring touch in my opinion. I would like to see Hartman get $3,5x4, but I think that may be impossible now when Fooligno got $4 mil
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Our current contract situations...
Hate
Foligno
Dislike
Fleury, Goligoski
Neutral/Fine
Spurgeon, Middleton, Zuccarello, Duhaime
Like
Kaprizov, Boldy, Gaudreau, Brodin, Gustavsson
Love
Eriksson Ek, Johansson, Hartman
Hate
Foligno
Dislike
Fleury, Goligoski
Neutral/Fine
Spurgeon, Middleton, Zuccarello, Duhaime
Like
Kaprizov, Boldy, Gaudreau, Brodin, Gustavsson
Love
Eriksson Ek, Johansson, Hartman
Only change I'd make is bumping Spurgeon to the dislike column above, but otherwise, spot on.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I give the Spurgeon contract some credit for being done prior to the Covid seasons/flat cap. Also that it doesn't have an NMC all the way through. But it's close. At the time, I was hoping for not a whole lot more than 6 x $6.5M
Plus, our defense with Spurgeon out to start the season looks pretty ugly.
