The truth hurts sometimes.
There were/have been a number of reports about the country club attitude, going to Leipold instead of the coach/gm, extending shifts past when he should have, bad attitude, entitlement, etc.
Management Bill Guerin
- Thread starter BuiumSaveUs
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There were/have been a number of reports about the country club attitude, going to Leipold instead of the coach/gm, extending shifts past when he should have, bad attitude, entitlement, etc.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter how they were personality wise, when the league brought cap recapture in, the buyouts were pretty much inevitable, the league basically shifted the power dynamic extremely in these few players favor where they are guaranteed job security and can actively punish their bosses to an extreme degree simply by quitting if they aren’t fully catered to. I have no idea why the NHL went that route, maybe they didn’t really understand the repercussions, but I don’t think there is another GM on this planet that would have walked into this team and not seen those contracts as huge problems.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I don't have a lot of sympathy for the team on this one, if I recall correctly, teams were warned about signing these types of contracts prior to Parise/Suter signing and the new CBA being negotiated.
I have some sympathy, it’s been confirmed that both players had even bigger offers that they turned down and at least a few others in the same ball park, with rumors of 7-8 teams bidding for them at the time. When over 1/4 of the league would have done the same thing, I find it pretty trashy that they turned around and all voted against these when the players didn’t accept their offers.
- Dec 10, 2012
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That's the business. Minnesota would have done the exact same thing if they lost out on Parise and Suter too. Everyone knew those types of deals were toxic, including the owners and GM's handing them out, but they had to do what they thought they had to do to be competitive.
As for those two specifically, everyone knew they were gonna hurt in the last 3-5 years. It was the worst kept secret that we were going to regret them regardless. We just assumed it would be because we're paying 15M for two not-very-good players, and in reality it's because we're paying 15M for nothing. Not really that much of a difference there though.
Does the punishment really fit the crime is my real point, when you consider a good portion of the league was attempting to do it, and that the financial landscape of the league has seen dramatic shifts throughout the last decade, I think it would be fair to say that it should have at least been up for debate with the league. Right now the only ones being punished are the players that are getting pretty clearly underpaid just so we can field a roster.
Leipold did at least make an effort to talk to the league about this last off season but the only word we heard from that is that they said no with no potential concessions. It just seems odd that they would choose to ostracize one of the most impactful potential markets that they have by continuously shooting an expansion franchise in the foot, while giving teams like Chicago and AZ bailouts for their own legitimate management issues.
I am not saying it’s a conspiracy or anything, but it’s at least somewhat hypocritical, and without any kind of appeals process available, just seems wrong in my mind.
- Dec 10, 2012
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What's the punishment and what's the crime in your eyes? We committed to them to the tune of 7.5M for 13 years. The NHL effectively made it so we actually have to have that commitment on the books for 13 years. So yeah, the punishment fits the crime. They didn't patch the LTIR loophole that teams like Chicago used to get Hossa off the books, or Arizona is using to hit the cap floor, and if Parise or Suter were incapable of continuing to play, we could have used that loophole still.
Remember, recapture wasn't a guarantee. It was only going to happen if they actually retired. Which, so far, they haven't. So we could have moved them to Arizona or whoever else, but Guerin wanted it this way.
As a side note, can we all appreciate the irony that we're still talking about these two guys and the buyouts a couple years later without anyone saying "let it go, it's done, just get over it", but we couldn't talk about Fiala even a couple months after he was traded without those kinds of comments?
The crime was that chuck fletcher offered contracts with long terms and low cap final years to Parise and Suter, while these terms were legal by the league approved rules and other teams also offered the same or similar contracts, they were immediately questionable from a likelihood to reach maturity. The punishment, as it played out, is that Chuck Fletcher saw zero repercussions, Ryan Suter and Zack Parise ended up receiving even more money, while also given complete control over where they played. New Wild management has been able to field a still competitive team solely on the basis that they moneyball players to an absurd degree where our performance per dollar metrics show nearly every player on the team as millions of dollars per year underpaid. Basically only future players were punished, while the people who committed the “crimes” either got off free, or were rewarded to the tune of nearly $10MM.
And while the buyouts necessity has been discussed in depth, there has been very little discussion about the leagues decision itself, there are very few laws ever passed in the real world that carry retroactive punishments, and that is for good reason, the NHL stepping in the way that they did was certainly something unique for a large entertainment venture. All of this is at its core made up and enforced by the league, but there was never any real transparency around this decision besides “well teams shouldn’t be doing this, and only MN actually gets hurt by it, so why not?”
Since buyouts Wild have had most successful regular season in their history in year one. Now in Year 2 the Wild are in first place in Central with 9 games left with over 12 million in dead cap space. Took Huge stones from Billy to buyout both players and so far its paying off, at least during regular season.
Southern Minny
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2021
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I must say that I'm totally surprised by this year, BG knows what's he's doing and more, BG can put a competitive team together like this with the penalties, just imagine what he can do with a full cap to work with.
BagHead
Registered User
I'll admit, I keep not liking most of his moves, and then they just keep working more often than not. He just keeps proving to me that I'm not that smart.
BuiumSaveUs
Danila Yurov Fan Club Executive Assistant
- May 2, 2018
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I’m elevating him to 4 for now. His teams have gotten results. Did a good job of filling needs at the deadline. If he handled the Fiala situation differently, I’d have him firmly in 4. Can’t really knock him for that fully until we see what Faber and Ohgren are.
MK9
Registered User
Almost every move he makes on the surface looks absolutely underwhelming. Like...most of them have been, 'What? WTF? Why?' But, almost everything has panned out in ways I couldn't have imagined it going well. I don't get it. He clearly sees subtle things the rest of us don't and fills them with players the rest of us wouldn't hardly think to look at.
You just can't bitch about the results.
Well...maybe. You kinda can. I mean, the team still hasn't advanced past the first round yet. I still think they're in dire need of 2 significantly better centers if they're going to do any real postseason damage.
You just can't bitch about the results.
Well...maybe. You kinda can. I mean, the team still hasn't advanced past the first round yet. I still think they're in dire need of 2 significantly better centers if they're going to do any real postseason damage.
I went back and started watching highlights of wins from last year. My god, Talbot was the king of letting in soft goals. Kahkonen not so much, but still not great. I like our chances to advance past the 1st round more this year than any other year in recent history.
MK9
Registered User
I wish we as fanbase didn't have to hope for this, but right now considering we're heading down Maple Leaf path in that respect, I'll kind of take it. And I think there is a good chance of it as well.
Further though. Further would be good too.
Our coach still worries me come post season, but we'll see...
Also... still losing far too many face offs
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I personally think Dean has done a good job, but I think a 4th first round exit in a row would be a reason for a coaching change IMO. They werent heavy underdogs in any of the previous 3 years and i felyt they could have won any of those and didnt. Deans winning percentage in regular season should come with Playoff expectations and if you go 0-4 in first round you should probably make a change. No matter what happens in playoffs I dont thinhk Dean will get fired. Just saying it should be considered when you lose 4 straight 1st round series
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Guerin should have moved Foligno for almost anything. The dude has reverted to being a plug and brings less than nothing.
They are putting him in a skill position in the lineup. He’s more crash and bang. It’s a horrible fit.
I just felt he still had decent value from his absolute outlier season and we don’t really need any more aging expensive crash and bangers. A 2nd and a 3rd should have been doable
I saw that, and like it, Guerin has done some tremendous things for this team. I have a hard time thinking of a GM who did more with less than he did these past two seasons. Pretty much every acquisition has contributed, he’s gotten multiple players to take significant underpayments just to be a part of this team and organization. The buyouts are really only limiting for another season and half and then he has us setup to really take more steps forward, if he can use cap accrual like this season in 24-25 then we have the opportunity to go after some big names and finally fill the center position.
Players like playing for him, GMs don’t mind trading with him, and he relies on his scouts, who appear to be quite good, especially for players in the league already.
- Mar 19, 2023
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I think this is great. Just imagine what he can do when his hands is not tied up. 15 mil extra can buy you a lot of experience and star power
Well, who will be happy with Guerin if we go through 6 years of not getting past the second round? Hasn't happened yet, but that is the course we're on. Certainly not what he promised coming into the job.
I am happy that he has not mortgaged the future like Fletcher did, but he has had zero success in leading the team to any playoff success, which has to be the goal, no? Certainly told us that when he was hired.
I am happy that he has not mortgaged the future like Fletcher did, but he has had zero success in leading the team to any playoff success, which has to be the goal, no? Certainly told us that when he was hired.
