Management Bill Guerin

[Wabit]

Does it seem like he wants to tank to you? I'm curious what gives you that impression because to me it appears he wants the opposite. My problem with his approach is that he has a ton of dead cap while trying to do it, and keeps going half-in at the trade deadlines. I really would prefer he aimed for asset collection right now (draft picks and prospects) and competitiveness after the buyouts are lessened, but he seems not to have the appetite for it.

100% he wants to tank, Kap just won't let him. He's traded the (mid-20's players) present for the future. Zucker for futures. Kunin for futures. Fiala or futures. Donato for futures. Heck even cap space that could have been used for something useful this year for futures.

The cap problems are of his own making. Yes he was stuck with Parise/Suter contracts. not ideal by any means, but workable to still field a better team than what it is now.

He's not trying to win, otherwise the gaping hole at 1C would be addressed (there have been plenty of opportunities). A PPG player (MN has had like 4 their entire team history) was traded away with the hole being filled with a waiver fodder player.

 

[AKL]

100% he wants to tank, Kap just won't let him. He's traded the (mid-20's players) present for the future. Zucker for futures. Kunin for futures. Fiala or futures. Donato for futures. Heck even cap space that could have been used for something useful this year for futures.

The cap problems are of his own making. Yes he was stuck with Parise/Suter contracts. not ideal by any means, but workable to still field a better team than what it is now.

He's not trying to win, otherwise the gaping hole at 1C would be addressed (there have been plenty of opportunities). A PPG player (MN has had like 4 their entire team history) was traded away with the hole being filled with a waiver fodder player.

I don't think he's trying to "tank", but I don't think he's trying to win either. He's just trying to survive the buyouts. That's the annoying part to me. He's not actively trying to acquire more futures for when the buyouts are over, and he's not trying to win now while Kaprizov is on the roster. He's basically just throwing these four years away not making progress on either front.

 

[BagHead]

His best move has been bringing in Brackett.

I don't mean to be negative, but I don't see why people think Brackett is all that great. Yeah, he drafted Hughes and Pettersson, but at 7th and 5th overall, not the hardest spots to draft a good talent from. The year before Pettersson he drafted Juolevi at 5th. Podkolzin kinda sucks, and he's hit on nothing in later rounds. I have some hopes for his picks here, but also some reservations that I'd like to be wrong about.

100% he wants to tank, Kap just won't let him. He's traded the (mid-20's players) present for the future. Zucker for futures. Kunin for futures. Fiala or futures. Donato for futures. Heck even cap space that could have been used for something useful this year for futures.

The cap problems are of his own making. Yes he was stuck with Parise/Suter contracts. not ideal by any means, but workable to still field a better team than what it is now.

He's not trying to win, otherwise the gaping hole at 1C would be addressed (there have been plenty of opportunities). A PPG player (MN has had like 4 their entire team history) was traded away with the hole being filled with a waiver fodder player.

Sorry, I edited my post while you were responding. I saw and understand why you feel that way.
My main gripe with him is that he seems to want to trade for futures, like you said, but then also trades futures for rentals. They're just really discordant approaches both happening at the same time.

 

[Wabit]

It was a joke rain cloud , calm down

Nope, being an asshat is fine, we all are on here at some point. Just own it.

Don't make up a poor taste "joke" that makes light of problems that people have in RL as a way to deflect responsibility.

 

[Wabit]

I don't mean to be negative, but I don't see why people think Brackett is all that great. Yeah, he drafted Hughes and Pettersson, but at 7th and 5th overall, not the hardest spots to draft a good talent from. The year before Pettersson he drafted Juolevi at 5th. Podkolzin kinda sucks, and he's hit on nothing in later rounds. I have some hopes for his picks here, but also some reservations that I'd like to be wrong about.

Sorry, I edited my post while you were responding. I saw and understand why you feel that way.
My main gripe with him is that he seems to want to trade for futures, like you said, but then also trades futures for rentals. They're just really discordant approaches both happening at the same time.

No worries. I just think he's not a good GM, and don't like many of the things he's done. I do try to give him credit when I think it due.

I agree about Brackett. VAN was terrible at drafting in time with them. Lambos and Rossi are picks I didn't like. The Wallstedt pick I did like. I'm meh about last year's draft class.

 

[AKL]

I don't mean to be negative, but I don't see why people think Brackett is all that great. Yeah, he drafted Hughes and Pettersson, but at 7th and 5th overall, not the hardest spots to draft a good talent from. The year before Pettersson he drafted Juolevi at 5th. Podkolzin kinda sucks, and he's hit on nothing in later rounds. I have some hopes for his picks here, but also some reservations that I'd like to be wrong about.

There's some debate about who he drafted and who management drafted. Recall part (most?) of the reason he left is because he didn't have autonomy to run the scouting department the way he wanted. Management overruled him on several occasions.

Based on what he's done here, despite none of the picks having made the league yet, I like what I've seen so far. Then again, a blind squirrel would have taken Rossi and Wallstedt. Jury is still out on guys like Lambos, Khusnutdinov, Peart, Hunt, Ohgren and Yurov, but so far, it seems it could have been worse.

 

[BagHead]

There's some debate about who he drafted and who management drafted. Recall part (most?) of the reason he left is because he didn't have autonomy to run the scouting department the way he wanted. Management overruled him on several occasions.

Based on what he's done here, despite none of the picks having made the league yet, I like what I've seen so far. Then again, a blind squirrel would have taken Rossi and Wallstedt. Jury is still out on guys like Lambos, Khusnutdinov, Peart, Hunt, Ohgren and Yurov, but so far, it seems it could have been worse.

That is a good point that I had forgotten! I'm still going to reserve judgement on our own pool, but that does ease my fears a bit.

 

[north21]

Fiala

Fiala Fiala Fiala

Could easily be sitting on top of the west with fiala still on the team.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

His best move has been bringing in Brackett.

We don't know that yet.

 

[Roman Maroni]

Could easily be sitting on top of the west with fiala still on the team.

Could be sitting on top if any of Hartman (9), Greenway (2), Foligno (4), Shaw (4), Reaves (1), Dewar(5) could put the puck in the net.

Did I leave anybody else out?
Edit…I forgot Duhaime (7).

It’s a miracle they are where they are ( Thanks Kap!,Thanks Gus!)

 

[f7ben]

Could be sitting on top if any of Hartman (9), Greenway (2), Foligno (4), Shaw (4), Reaves (1), Dewar(5) could put the puck in the net.

Did I leave anybody else out?

It’s a miracle they are where they are ( Thanks Kap!,Thanks Gus!)

Except Fiala was a known ppg play driving net filler and all the guys you just rattled off are role playing plugs.

Could easily be sitting on top of the west with fiala still on the team.

Correct

 

[Roman Maroni]

Except Fiala was a known ppg play driving net filler and all the guys you just rattled off are role playing plugs.


Correct

I get it. But he’s gone. All the bitching that he’s gone and being reminded of it every other post gets old. I don’t like it he’s gone either. But I can’t change it, and refuse to let it get to me.
Hell, if a couple of those players have a season half as good as last year, it would help. Plus you basically have 1 scoring defenseman. That doesn’t help either.

 

[Wabit]

Could be sitting on top if any of Hartman (9), Greenway (2), Foligno (4), Shaw (4), Reaves (1), Dewar(5) could put the puck in the net.

Did I leave anybody else out?
Edit…I forgot Duhaime (7).

It’s a miracle they are where they are ( Thanks Kap!,Thanks Gus!)

Dewar and Duhaime have more goals than they did last year. Steel is on par with Bjugstad as the pressbox FWD. Shaw was in the AHL, but behind Sturm's numbers. Reaves wasn't on the team.

The ones behind their last year paces are Boldy, Foligno, Greenway, and Hartman.

 

[ThatGuy22]

100% he wants to tank, Kap just won't let him. He's traded the (mid-20's players) present for the future. Zucker for futures. Kunin for futures. Fiala or futures. Donato for futures. Heck even cap space that could have been used for something useful this year for futures.

The cap problems are of his own making. Yes he was stuck with Parise/Suter contracts. not ideal by any means, but workable to still field a better team than what it is now.

He's not trying to win, otherwise the gaping hole at 1C would be addressed (there have been plenty of opportunities). A PPG player (MN has had like 4 their entire team history) was traded away with the hole being filled with a waiver fodder player.

A GM that wants to tank doesn't extend 3 of our 4 or 5 most effective players to tough to move contracts in Brodin, Spurgeon and JEE.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Could be worse. Could be about to give another team your lottery 1st round pick because you traded for Ben freaking Chiarot.

 

[Roman Maroni]

Dewar and Duhaime have more goals than they did last year. Steel is on par with Bjugstad as the pressbox FWD. Shaw was in the AHL, but behind Sturm's numbers. Reaves wasn't on the team.

The ones behind their last year paces are Boldy, Foligno, Greenway, and Hartman.

Agree, I like the Dewey’s and Shaw for that matter.
The guy who should be happy that Greenway is still here is Foligno. Everyone is talking how bad Greenway is and nobody says a word about him. Foligno gets a free pass. He’s been terrible.

And mainly it’s those two I was referencing about having half as good of a year as last year.

 

[Wabit]

A GM that wants to tank doesn't extend 3 of our 4 or 5 most effective players to tough to move contracts in Brodin, Spurgeon and JEE.

Yes they do. That's the building blocks for the "new" team. Keep some and dump others. I mean look at COL with Landy, MacKinnion, and EJ; yet they dumped ROR and Duschene.

A full BUF style teardown is the worst approach, because there isn't any quality players to learn from.

 

[Wabit]

Agree, I like the Dewey’s and Shaw for that matter.
The guy who should be happy that Greenway is still here is Foligno. Everyone is talking how bad Greenway is and nobody says a word about him. Foligno gets a free pass. He’s been terrible.

And mainly it’s those two I was referencing about having half as good of a year as last year.

Hartman and Foligno are the big dropoffs.

Greenway is a setup guy not really a goal scorer. He had 2 in the final game of the season last year to bump him goals up to 10. His points have been hurt by Foligno not finishing or being too slow to the pucks put in the same places as last year.

Don't get me wrong Greenway needs to be better too, but the 5v5 on ice GF/60 are higher with Greenway on the ice than they are for JEE, Foligno, and Boldy. Heck Boldy has only been on ice for 3g more than Greenway and has 250mins more.

 

[MNNumbers]

Who gave Spurgeon his present extension? I can't remember?

Guerin? Well, the Fiala thing was personality. You can like that, or not. Protecting Dumba seems to have been a mistake (but perhaps he was forced into that by an NMC? I can't remember), because Dumba isn't worth 6M.

As others have said, everything else is deck chairs. Gustav might be a good move, though, and Gustafson was a lucky move.

But, this is the case for most GMs.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Yes they do. That's the building blocks for the "new" team. Keep some and dump others. I mean look at COL with Landy, MacKinnion, and EJ; yet they dumped ROR and Duschene.

A full BUF style teardown is the worst approach, because there isn't any quality players to learn from.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a tanking team that resigned mid to late 20s players to 7-8 year deals when they all could have returned a first.

You could call it a retool what he's done(not particularlywell in my opinion). Definitely not a tank. Maybe you could call it a rebuild, given how he's keeping picks and prospects. But even that's stretching the meaning in my opinion.


As far as the colorado example, they thought they were building with Duchene, ror, Mack, Landeskog, barrie, etc until they bottomed out in 16 and 17 with that 48 point Barrie,

The three you mentioned were in the first two years of long term contracts(two of which were signed off of ELCs) when they bottomed out and Roy quit. Not the same situation as extending pending UFAs.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Who gave Spurgeon his present extension? I can't remember?

Guerin? Well, the Fiala thing was personality. You can like that, or not. Protecting Dumba seems to have been a mistake (but perhaps he was forced into that by an NMC? I can't remember), because Dumba isn't worth 6M.

As others have said, everything else is deck chairs. Gustav might be a good move, though, and Gustafson was a lucky move.

But, this is the case for most GMs.

IIRC, technically it was signed under Guerin but the contract offer was from Fenton.

 

[Wabit]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a tanking team that resigned mid to late 20s players to 7-8 year deals when they all could have returned a first.

You could call it a retool what he's done(not particularlywell in my opinion). Definitely not a tank. Maybe you could call it a rebuild, given how he's keeping picks and prospects. But even that's stretching the meaning in my opinion.

Who gave Spurgeon his present extension? I can't remember?

Guerin? Well, the Fiala thing was personality. You can like that, or not. Protecting Dumba seems to have been a mistake (but perhaps he was forced into that by an NMC? I can't remember), because Dumba isn't worth 6M.

As others have said, everything else is deck chairs. Gustav might be a good move, though, and Gustafson was a lucky move.

But, this is the case for most GMs.

I think getting the job as GM required re-signing Spurgeon ASAP. Fenton not talking to Spurgeon was the final nail in his coffin.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Who gave Spurgeon his present extension? I can't remember?

Guerin? Well, the Fiala thing was personality. You can like that, or not. Protecting Dumba seems to have been a mistake (but perhaps he was forced into that by an NMC? I can't remember), because Dumba isn't worth 6M.

As others have said, everything else is deck chairs. Gustav might be a good move, though, and Gustafson was a lucky move.

But, this is the case for most GMs.

I have a hard time blaming him much for this since it was a pre-pandemic signing. Cap should probably be >$90 million right now.

Probably only 1 year and ~$800k too much at the time. Just became more burdensome due to unforeseen factors.

 

[Wabit]

IIRC, technically it was signed under Guerin but the contract offer was from Fenton.

That was JEE's extension. Spurgeon was all Guerin.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

IIRC, technically it was signed under Guerin but the contract offer was from Fenton.

Fenton offered him a contract, but highly likely wasn't the one he ended up signing.