Management Bill Guerin

[57special]

I am not surprised that BG has only made a token attempt to improve the team going into the playoffs, and has failed to deal with a couple of recent signing mistakes (Greenway and Goligoski). Am waiting for the off season when he lets Addison go, because they just “couldn’t get it done”, and dropping not so subtle hints that he is no big loss anyway.

The only reason that this team has even a chance to get in, and possibly win series is because of the sad state of the West, in general, and Gustavsson.

 

[f7ben]

Guerin - The team has spoken and really shown me what they are all about , I expect to be active this tdl and get them some help.

Guerin - Brings in Marcus Johansson

Guerin - Laughs hysterically at having punked his own lockerroom to the max

 

[ThatGuy22]

I'm sorry in advance, this is going to be a well meaning rant. Something has been bugging me for the last couple months- I keep seeing people give all the credit for the Wild's current roster to Fenton and Fletcher. Doing so is somewhat valid, as many current players were drafted by them, but giving them all of the credit ignores the work that Guerin has done since he arrived. Since that day, Guerin has chosen which players stay and which must leave. If a man tends an orchard, does he not get credit for his work because someone else planted the seeds? The seeds he has planted himself simply have not had the time to mature, yet.

What I'm getting at is that the roster turnover from Fenton's '18-19 Wild team to this year's version is quite large. 8 of the Wild's 10 leading scorers from that year are no longer on the team. Out of the 37 guys that played games for the '18-19 Wild, 6 remain (Spurgeon, Greenway, Foligno, Dumba, Brodin, and JEE). If we only want to talk "regular's", instead of all 37 guys, this is the equivalent of keeping your defense unit, but replacing all of the forwards and both goalies. Some of that turnover has been good, and some has been bad, and it was (nearly) all at Guerin's hand.

My point, I guess, is that blame and credit are things that should be shared by all of them, and that reality is more nuanced than "Guerin is only ever bad and I don't like him". I don't like him either, I think he's sort of a prick, but he's done a job.

I kind of get both sides of it.

Basically the entire core of the team was acquired by a different GM. Even the Shaw, Dewar, Duhaime trio were drafted by a different GM.

BG's acquistions are Fleury, Gus Bus, Addison, Goligoski, Middleton, Freddy Hockey and Steel.

At the same time, BG has done extensions on the core. Some good (Kaprizov, JEE, Hartman) some of the more controversial variety (Spurgeon, Brodin) and some like Goligoski....

 

[Wabit]

I'm sorry in advance, this is going to be a well meaning rant. Something has been bugging me for the last couple months- I keep seeing people give all the credit for the Wild's current roster to Fenton and Fletcher. Doing so is somewhat valid, as many current players were drafted by them, but giving them all of the credit ignores the work that Guerin has done since he arrived. Since that day, Guerin has chosen which players stay and which must leave. If a man tends an orchard, does he not get credit for his work because someone else planted the seeds? The seeds he has planted himself simply have not had the time to mature, yet.

What I'm getting at is that the roster turnover from Fenton's '18-19 Wild team to this year's version is quite large. 8 of the Wild's 10 leading scorers from that year are no longer on the team. Out of the 37 guys that played games for the '18-19 Wild, 6 remain (Spurgeon, Greenway, Foligno, Dumba, Brodin, and JEE). If we only want to talk "regular's", instead of all 37 guys, this is the equivalent of keeping your defense unit, but replacing all of the forwards and both goalies. Some of that turnover has been good, and some has been bad, and it was (nearly) all at Guerin's hand.

My point, I guess, is that blame and credit are things that should be shared by all of them, and that reality is more nuanced than "Guerin is only ever bad and I don't like him". I don't like him either, I think he's sort of a prick, but he's done a job.

Kaprizov is great, without him the the team is a bottom feeder.
-The Wild have 170g on the season, Kap has 71p. So 41.8% of the time he's been involved in the scoring.
-Kap has been on the ice for 94 of those 170 goals. So 55.3% of all goals scored has been with one player on the ice. (natural stat trick).

Guerin has made the team worse overall instead of surrounding one of the top players in the world with the talent he's gotten rid of talent. Kap (already in the system) and the goalies (full marks for those) are the only upgraded GMBG has made from the team he took over.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It's points and half-points.

Points for bringing in something that wasn't there before. Half-points for smartly retaining what was brought in, either by the predecessor or by him.

 

[BagHead]

Kaprizov is great, without him the the team is a bottom feeder.
-The Wild have 170g on the season, Kap has 71p. So 41.8% of the time he's been involved in the scoring.
-Kap has been on the ice for 94 of those 170 goals. So 55.3% of all goals scored has been with one player on the ice. (natural stat trick).

Guerin has made the team worse overall instead of surrounding one of the top players in the world with the talent he's gotten rid of talent. Kap (already in the system) and the goalies (full marks for those) are the only upgraded GMBG has made from the team he took over.

I agree, without Kaprizov they'd be done, but it was he that signed Kaprizov, and then re-signed him, so you can't just exclude Kaprizov from what Guerin has done. As I said, Guerin has "done a job". Notice how I didn't say it was a particularly good job. It's sort of a mixed job.

 

[Wabit]

I agree, without Kaprizov they'd be done, but it was he that signed Kaprizov, and then re-signed him, so you can't just exclude Kaprizov from what Guerin has done. As I said, Guerin has "done a job". Notice how I didn't say it was a particularly good job. It's sort of a mixed job.

I have Kap in the same boat as the rest of the prospects that were in the system. He couldn't go anywhere else in the NHL and he was a RFA without arbitration or OS rights. Sure he was signed, but it wasn't a max term or anything contract.

If you're going to tank (like GMBG seems to want to) then it's a terrible contract because it keeps the team too good to get the top end prospects.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

I have Kap in the same boat as the rest of the prospects that were in the system. He couldn't go anywhere else in the NHL and he was a RFA without arbitration or OS rights. Sure he was signed, but it wasn't a max term or anything contract.

If you're going to tank (like GMBG seems to want to) then it's a terrible contract because it keeps the team too good to get the top end prospects.

Where did you get the idea that Guerin wants to tank? He has made statements to the exact opposite of that throughout his entire tenure here, saying it’s a competitive team with expectations to win in the playoffs and win a cup.

 

[Wabit]

Where did you get the idea that Guerin wants to tank? He has made statements to the exact opposite of that throughout his entire tenure here, saying it’s a competitive team with expectations to win in the playoffs and win a cup.

Look at his moves. They have been lateral, for futures, or downgrades positionally. The only spot he's come out ahead is with the goalies (thanks to Gus).

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Look at his moves. They have been lateral, for futures, or downgrades positionally. The only spot he's come out ahead is with the goalies (thanks to Gus).

He committed to the buyouts, and has been a buyer at every deadline. Even if you interpret these as lateral moves, they aren’t tanking or anything close to it. Was tinkering the word you meant?

 

[Wabit]

He committed to the buyouts, and has been a buyer at every deadline. Even if you interpret these as lateral moves, they aren’t tanking or anything close to it. Was tinkering the word you meant?

You mean selling off Fiala, Zucker, Donato, Kunin, Sturm, and Staal for nothing of use? Buying out Parise and Suter for nothing but 8 years of dead cap and signing worse replacements?

When your "best" FA signing is Freddy G (or Talbot) and the best trade is either Cole for Pateryn or taking a flyer on a goalie because you pissed off the previous guy.

He's been a buyer for:
-goalie (with below league average stats for the season), because he had to trade a young one to get a Suter replacement because the 4 guys he brought in couldn't do it.
-A couple of 4th line "grit" guys.
-A guy that's injured and might not even play at all this year for the team.
-A re-tread that failed the first time when he was here.
-Getting pissy because a solid 4C wouldn't re-sign so dumped him for Jost. This is the "buying" that GMBG has done.

These are just putting lipstick on a pig moves, and none of them really filled any team needs. Well I guess that's not true, they filled holes that he created on the team.

 

[NHL1674]

He REALLY fumbled the bag with Greenway.

 

[Minnewildsota]

You mean selling off Fiala, Zucker, Donato, Kunin, Sturm, and Staal for nothing of use? Buying out Parise and Suter for nothing but 8 years of dead cap and signing worse replacements?

When your "best" FA signing is Freddy G (or Talbot) and the best trade is either Cole for Pateryn or taking a flyer on a goalie because you pissed off the previous guy.

He's been a buyer for:
-goalie (with below league average stats for the season), because he had to trade a young one to get a Suter replacement because the 4 guys he brought in couldn't do it.
-A couple of 4th line "grit" guys.
-A guy that's injured and might not even play at all this year for the team.
-A re-tread that failed the first time when he was here.
-Getting pissy because a solid 4C wouldn't re-sign so dumped him for Jost. This is the "buying" that GMBG has done.

These are just putting lipstick on a pig moves, and none of them really filled any team needs. Well I guess that's not true, they filled holes that he created on the team.

Yeah, some of these players went on to have some really illustrious careers after moving on from the Wild...

 

[AKL]

He REALLY fumbled the bag with Greenway.

His biggest fumble by a long shot was [redacted]. The rest of it is water under the bridge. He'll dump Greenway at some point, fine. He can probably dump Goligoski at some point, fine. Staal was aging and probably wasn't gonna be super useful much longer, fine. I don't know. He's basically done nothing but move deck chairs around since he got here, outside of [redacted].

 

[Wabit]

Yeah, some of these players went on to have some really illustrious careers after moving on from the Wild...

Still better than what is currently on the roster or the guys that have been bought as a "buyer" GM.

 

[f7ben]

Fiala

Fiala Fiala Fiala

 

[Wabit]

Fiala

Fiala Fiala Fiala

I'm glad you miss him too.

 

[f7ben]

I'm glad you miss him too.

Just blurting out his name in text is like a nervous tick for me at this point.

 

[Wabit]

Just blurting out his name in text is like a nervous tick for me at this point.

Well you should either go see a head shrinker, or buy one of his sweaters. Whichever one works best for you.

 

[f7ben]

Well you should either go see a head shrinker, or buy one of his sweaters. Whichever one works best for you.

What’s wrong with just off topic spamming and boards about him , gives the mods something to do here

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

You mean selling off Fiala, Zucker, Donato, Kunin, Sturm, and Staal for nothing of use? Buying out Parise and Suter for nothing but 8 years of dead cap and signing worse replacements?

When your "best" FA signing is Freddy G (or Talbot) and the best trade is either Cole for Pateryn or taking a flyer on a goalie because you pissed off the previous guy.

He's been a buyer for:
-goalie (with below league average stats for the season), because he had to trade a young one to get a Suter replacement because the 4 guys he brought in couldn't do it.
-A couple of 4th line "grit" guys.
-A guy that's injured and might not even play at all this year for the team.
-A re-tread that failed the first time when he was here.
-Getting pissy because a solid 4C wouldn't re-sign so dumped him for Jost. This is the "buying" that GMBG has done.

These are just putting lipstick on a pig moves, and none of them really filled any team needs. Well I guess that's not true, they filled holes that he created on the team.

You specifically said that he is tanking, if these moves count as tanking to you, then at least I know where you stand, my opinion on that term is very different from your own.

 

[BagHead]

I have Kap in the same boat as the rest of the prospects that were in the system. He couldn't go anywhere else in the NHL and he was a RFA without arbitration or OS rights. Sure he was signed, but it wasn't a max term or anything contract.

If you're going to tank (like GMBG seems to want to) then it's a terrible contract because it keeps the team too good to get the top end prospects.

Does it seem like he wants to tank to you? I'm curious what gives you that impression because to me it appears he wants the opposite. My problem with his approach is that he has a ton of dead cap while trying to do it, and keeps going half-in at the trade deadlines. I really would prefer he aimed for asset collection right now (draft picks and prospects) and competitiveness after the buyouts are lessened, but he seems not to have the appetite for it.

*edit* Nevermind, I just saw your reply to Ovechkid above, I see where you're coming from on it now.

 

[Wabit]

What’s wrong with just off topic spamming and boards about him , gives the mods something to do here

If you've developed a tick then there is something deeper going on and you should really get that addressed. Mental health is no joke after all. Or you're just full of **** and using a mental health issue as cover as an easy out.

 

[f7ben]

If you've developed a tick then there is something deeper going on and you should really get that addressed. Mental health is no joke after all. Or you're just full of **** and using a mental health issue as cover as an easy out.

It was a joke rain cloud , calm down

 

[PuckInTheNards]

His best move has been bringing in Brackett.