Management Bill Guerin

How is Guerin Doing?


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Arturia Pendragon

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It’s completely insane to say that Guerin isn’t thinking of the future or that the future is “hopeless.” Our prospect pool is absolutely stacked at almost every position. Guerin hasn’t traded any 1st round pick and only traded a 2nd in a year he had another 2nd.

People have been crying to build through the draft since I became a fan back in 2005 and that’s what they are doing. Yeah, the NHL team might take a hit in the early stages and that initially looks bad for Guerin. I think he’s playing the long game while some of you are only viewing the short term.

We all took the L with Fiala getting traded. He wasn’t coming back. Zuccarello wasn’t getting moved. You can wish it all you want, but it wasn’t happening.

Reaves has looked fantastic. The more I watch him, the more I think he’s a perfect fit for our 4th line. He’s an energy guy amongst the “robots.” People got butthurt over him being traded for. So far, I hope you are enjoying eating your crow as much as I am. He doesn’t look like a liability at all and he’s been a net positive on more nights than not. He’s not fast, but he’s like Greenway when it comes to puck protection along the boards. He’s an absolute force.

The NHL team is stacked outside of a true 1C. Perhaps Guerin hasn’t needed to trade for an elite skill player because all of the spots we need filled (1C) are not available or don’t make sense (Horvat). He shouldn’t just trade for a skill guy just for the sake of trading for one. Players acquired should be a need. Name the spot that’s open at the moment if we were to acquire a 1C. Answer: there isn’t a spot open. We have too many forwards on the team as is. Hell, our prospects need to have an opening to fight for eventually too. Right now our top 6 wings are set at Kap-Zucc, Boldy-Hartman. That’s not a bad group IMO. It’s also funny that some of you got worked up over Walker having to be sent down now that Hartman is back. It’s almost like any move that’s made people will be complaining about it, regardless of what happened. A nothing pick for a guy to energize the team? Pissed off posters. A quality NHL player returns from injury forcing the team to send down a rookie player that had 0 points in 4 games so he can develop further next to our top prospect in the AHL? Pissed off posters. I truly believe it doesn’t matter what Guerin does anymore. Some of you are just gonna be pissed regardless.

We have almost all good/decent contracts. The one potentially bad contract is Spurgeon, and he is performing right along the lines of it right now.

The team is third in the division. Four points from 1st with a game in hand. Currently on a 5 game win streak where they have outscored their opponents 17-5 (3.4 gf/gp, 1 ga/gp). They are doing that with almost $13M in dead cap. I’ll take that W any day.

Lastly, I can’t believe some of you can watch the last two years and want Suter back. That dude is slow as shit, a bad personality and undermined the “team first” mentality. You guys realize that Guerin initially wanted to just buy out Suter and not Parise, right? The dude was a problem.

Thank you, just…
Thank you 👏👏👏
 
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Joseph Nathan

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I wouldn't say stacked at almost every position. While Wally is a great candidate for goaltender of the future, there is literally no one behind him. Center depth is questionable at best and there is no depth at right wing.

I think the only thing stacked is depth defenseman at this point and maybe left wing.

At this point, Rossi is very questionable, Khus is in the KHL for another few years and Oghren may tap out as nothing more than a good third liner and a poor second liner.

It's a stretch to say that Minnesota is stacked when in fact they have depth and depth and stacked are two different things. Having a bunch of Shaw's and Duhaimes only and not having a few Kaprizov type prospects is what is keeping this team in mediocrity.



Because they are concerned that in the short term, Kaprizov is going to be tired of the team spinning their wheels in the dirt and will peace out leaving Minnesota with what? And there is a huge difference between building through the draft and building through the draft.


And Dumba isn't getting traded either. Not with this current run. Zuccs makes the most sense on why he should get moved. He's older, his contract is expiring.


I mean if you consider Duhaime, Shaw, Foligno, Greenway, Steel, Gaudreau, Dewar, as irreplaceable good for you.


Their last five games were against: Vancouver, Edmonton, Detroit and Ottawa - a whopping 64 - 73 - 16. Let's see how they do in late December, early January.

I think their only quality win is against Carolina? Dallas?



I don't think people want Suter back for his play on the ice, but they are paying for TWO defensemen. Goligoski's cap hit (or Merill) is 6-7 million higher as the Wild had to replace Suter. I did not like Suter, but that doesn't mean I can't see the value in keeping him as a depth defenseman.
Danila yurov? Forgot him? Zuccarello isn't getting traded. He's attached to Zuccarello and Guerin knows that. He's not messing up that relationship
 

thestonedkoala

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Danila yurov? Forgot him? Zuccarello isn't getting traded. He's attached to Zuccarello and Guerin knows that. He's not messing up that relationship

Yurov is hard to determine where he stands at the moment. He has 4 goals and 5 assists in 30+ games, but that isn't a great indicator of the talent. Nor do we know what is going to happen to him beyond this season; if he goes back to the KHL or if he goes to the AHL.

Zuccs may price himself out of Minnesota and at that point, Guerin may need to think about moving him and getting the best deal he can. Will he? Probably not, but if Zuccs is looking for another contract (not length but average) around what he has now, Minnesota maybe forced to move on.
 

Webster

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Zucc is like a good wine, better and better the older he gets. He will probably re-sign a couple of years, I'm sure he'll agree with Guerin on a fair deal. And he's like a dad to Kaprizov, we all know about this cute story.
 

Sad People

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Depends on what the winning hockey looks like, to some degree.
That’s a fair point.

It just reminded me of another poster on another website where he’s got nothing good to say about the Vikings, ever. Last April he wanted Kwesi to be fired because he made a inter division trade with the Lions. 1 trade and he wanted him gone. Lol Haven’t seen him post at all this year until Saturdays game with the Colts where he was going on and on about how the teams bad, KOC is bad, Kwesi is bad, and that the players and coaches don’t want to win unlike Zimm and Slick Rick. Well I haven’t seen him post since a bit after halftime. He’s just a fan that’s always unhappy no matter if the team is winning or not. And if the team is doing poorly and losing he’ll bring it up. But never has anything good to say.
 

DANOZ28

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i've said this before, do you want a gm who trades all draft picks to win now for season ticket holders or do you want a gm who builds through the draft for 5 years? i look at chicago and LA who tanked then added a few top free agents that turned them into contenders. nothing always works but we've seen 20 years of mostly MILD hockey, i want to watch a top 10 legit contender.
 

Minnewildsota

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Depends on what the winning hockey looks like, to some degree.
Hypothetically, if we could win the Cup being the Devils from the 90-00s, you wouldn’t want that because we would be playing winning hockey, but it would be “boring”?

Trying to determine where the line is between winning and having entertaining hockey. I mean, the Oilers play entertaining hockey but they’ll never win the Cup with their current structure IMHO.

Of course, winning and entertaining aren’t mutually exclusive but again, just trying to find where that line is
 

Dr Jan Itor

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Hypothetically, if we could win the Cup being the Devils from the 90-00s, you wouldn’t want that because we would be playing winning hockey, but it would be “boring”?

Trying to determine where the line is between winning and having entertaining hockey. I mean, the Oilers play entertaining hockey but they’ll never win the Cup with their current structure IMHO.

Of course, winning and entertaining aren’t mutually exclusive but again, just trying to find where that line is
Worth watching + playoffs is the baseline of what I hope for nowadays. Make 82 regular season games worth it, and have that chip/chair/chance at the end. Winning the Cup isn't unimportant, but it isn't the be all and end all for me anymore (if it ever was).
 

Prior

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Is it okay to think Guerin is not a good GM, annoyed that he had the opportunity for two years to make an impact move with the best team he will ever have and didn’t, to be more than fine with the Fiala deal, and would rather watch winning hockey than not? All the while knowing this team won’t be win a championship over the next few years?

Because that’s where I’m at.
 

MK9

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Lastly, I can’t believe some of you can watch the last two years and want Suter back. That dude is slow as shit, a bad personality and undermined the “team first” mentality. You guys realize that Guerin initially wanted to just buy out Suter and not Parise, right? The dude was a problem.
Read in another thread that there are at least a handful of Dallas fans that can't wait to get him off their team. Not sure how the majority of the fanbase feels about him, but that he wore out his welcome that fast, I can't say surprised me.
 

Digitalbooya

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I wouldn't say stacked at almost every position. While Wally is a great candidate for goaltender of the future, there is literally no one behind him. Center depth is questionable at best and there is no depth at right wing.

I think the only thing stacked is depth defenseman at this point and maybe left wing.

At this point, Rossi is very questionable, Khus is in the KHL for another few years and Oghren may tap out as nothing more than a good third liner and a poor second liner.

It's a stretch to say that Minnesota is stacked when in fact they have depth and depth and stacked are two different things. Having a bunch of Shaw's and Duhaimes only and not having a few Kaprizov type prospects is what is keeping this team in mediocrity.
LW: Ohgren, Beckman, Lorenz, Milne,
C: Rossi, Khusnutdinov, Bankier, Haight, Petrovsky,,
RW: Yurov, Novak
LD: Lambos, Hunt, O'Rourke, Peart, Warren
RD: Addison, Faber, Spacek, Masters,
G: Wallstedt,

They have a recent 1st round pick at every position, except RD where they have Addison and a 1st round equivalent in Faber. These are all quality players. I see Ohgren, Rossi, Khusnutdinov, Yurov, Lambos, Faber, and Wallstedt as top of the lineup (top 6/top 4)/starter quality. That's stacked IMO. You want to call it depth... Whatever, makes no difference to me what language is used. I like our prospect pool and the way it looks to be shaping our future.
Because they are concerned that in the short term, Kaprizov is going to be tired of the team spinning their wheels in the dirt and will peace out leaving Minnesota with what? And there is a huge difference between building through the draft and building through the draft.
This team is doing the best it can at building through the draft. A top 10 pick is completely out of the question for the next however many years that Kap is here.
And Dumba isn't getting traded either. Not with this current run. Zuccs makes the most sense on why he should get moved. He's older, his contract is expiring.
Gotta love this. Dumba needs to stay because we are in a playoff position. But our 1st line RW, best friend of our superstar, and player who is pacing 95 points so far this year and 93 points last year? He's gotta go. Lmao

I mean if you consider Duhaime, Shaw, Foligno, Greenway, Steel, Gaudreau, Dewar, as irreplaceable good for you.
What the hell are you talking about with this? I said we need to create spots for our prospects and that we have too many forwards right now. I didn't say anyone was irreplaceable.
Their last five games were against: Vancouver, Edmonton, Detroit and Ottawa - a whopping 64 - 73 - 16. Let's see how they do in late December, early January.

I think their only quality win is against Carolina? Dallas?
Against the current top 15 teams they are 4-6-1. They started the year 0-4-1 against those teams and are 4-2-0 as the team has been getting healthy.

Most playoff teams are like this. .500 against playoff teams and win against the lesser teams.

Quality wins are Carolina, Dallas, Winnipeg, Seattle.
I don't think people want Suter back for his play on the ice, but they are paying for TWO defensemen. Goligoski's cap hit (or Merill) is 6-7 million higher as the Wild had to replace Suter. I did not like Suter, but that doesn't mean I can't see the value in keeping him as a depth defenseman.
You're looking at it all wrong. If you look at it as a pure numbers game then maybe you have a point. When you look at everything, he needed to go.

 
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Digitalbooya

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Read in another thread that there are at least a handful of Dallas fans that can't wait to get him off their team. Not sure how the majority of the fanbase feels about him, but that he wore out his welcome that fast, I can't say surprised me.
That doesn't surprise me at all.
 

thestonedkoala

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LW: Ohgren, Beckman, Lorenz, Milne,
C: Rossi, Khusnutdinov, Bankier, Haight, Petrovsky,,
RW: Yurov, Novak
LD: Lambos, Hunt, O'Rourke, Peart, Warren
RD: Addison, Faber, Spacek, Masters,
G: Wallstedt,

Beckman hasn't proven anything other than he could dominate in the CHL. There are a LOT of prospects that could dominate in the CHL that couldn't translate to the AHL, much less than the NHL. That's where Beckman currently sits. Lorenz, no idea how he's doing in the NCAA, but he's far away. Milne is a plugger similar to Shaw and Duhaime.

Ohgren is seen as a jack of all trades, master of none. He could be the equivalent of JEE, but on the wing. JEE is an excellent middle-six guy, but can't break into the top line and they have tried.

Rossi, talked about him. Khusnutdinov, talked about him. Bankier is an overager, no idea if he'll translate his game well to the AHL. Haight is playing with a phenom and his numbers are inflated. I'm interested in Petrovsky myself.

Yurov is hard to tell where he'll land. His points, his game time is not indicative of his talent, but he's a real wild card. Novak just got over cancer, who knows where he is at this point.

Lambos is another wild card. But on the whole, none of the defensemen really stand out from being middle 4 guys except maybe Faber. Also I wouldn't call Warren a prospect, there is probably a good chance we won't sign him.

Wallstedt and what?

Except for Yurov (and that's hard to tell), none of Minnesota's prospects have any elite offensive talent. That's why a guy like Firkus would have made a ton of sense to go with the middle 6 guys that Minnesota has a ton of.
This team is doing the best it can at building through the draft. A top 10 pick is completely out of the question for
Why though? One bad year, especially this year, would have been an enormous boon for this team. For a team that has questionable center, getting a top 10 pick and getting a possible elite center would have been a massive boon for the team.

Gotta love this. Dumba needs to stay because we are in a playoff position. But our 1st line RW, best friend of our superstar, and player who is pacing 95 points so far this year and 93 points last year? He's gotta go. Lmao

I want Dumba traded, but the consensus is that he's going to stay due to the locker room, depth and a variety of reasons. I don't think Zuccs is going to get traded, but it would make sense to trade him this offseason (I'm afraid of what his contract is going to look like and he'll be signing past 35).
What the hell are you talking about with this? I said we need to create spots for our prospects and that we have too many forwards right now. I didn't say anyone was irreplaceable.

It really sounded like you think this team is fine as it is and that this team doesn't have major holes.

Against the current top 15 teams they are 4-6-1. They started the year 0-4-1 against those teams and are 4-2-0 as the team has been getting healthy.

Most playoff teams are like this. .500 against playoff teams and win against the lesser teams.

Quality wins are Carolina, Dallas, Winnipeg, Seattle.

What are they against the top 4 teams? Top 15 teams don't say much other than they are in the middle of a dog fight and the bottom 4 of the top 15 can easily end up in the bottom 15.

You're looking at it all wrong. If you look at it as a pure numbers game then maybe you have a point. When you look at everything, he needed to go.

For a guy that really likes to talk about the locker room, he sure has brought in some skeevy guys. Not to mention, we have to look at the numbers game because he basically handicapped himself with a 20 million cap hit over three years. People complain that Guerin doesn't have cap room to work with and then say we had to buy out Suter. Which one is it?
 

Digitalbooya

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Why though? One bad year, especially this year, would have been an enormous boon for this team. For a team that has questionable center, getting a top 10 pick and getting a possible elite center would have been a massive boon for the team.
Come on dude, think logically on this. Kap would have to be out for a significant amount of time for this team to be anywhere near a bottom 10 team.

It really sounded like you think this team is fine as it is and that this team doesn't have major holes.
This team has one (1!) major hole and I said what that is in my first post. Point me to the major holes this team has outside of 1C.

What are they against the top 4 teams? Top 15 teams don't say much other than they are in the middle of a dog fight and the bottom 4 of the top 15 can easily end up in the bottom 15.
They are 1-0-1 against the top 4. They are 3-1-1 against the top 8. Against 9th-15th they are 1-5-0.

 
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Dr Jan Itor

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Come on dude, think logically on this. Kap would have to be out for a significant amount of time for this team to be anywhere near a bottom 10 team.


This team has one (1!) major hole and I said what that is in my first post. Point me to the major holes this team has outside of 1C.


They are 1-0-1 against the top 4. They are 3-1-1 against the top 8. Against 9th-15th they are 1-5-0.
I don’t wish to find out, but if Kap is out 10 games, we lose 8 out of 10.
 

thestonedkoala

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Come on dude, think logically on this. Kap would have to be out for a significant amount of time for this team to be anywhere near a bottom 10 team.


This team has one (1!) major hole and I said what that is in my first post. Point me to the major holes this team has outside of 1C.


They are 1-0-1 against the top 4. They are 3-1-1 against the top 8. Against 9th-15th they are 1-5-0.

I don't think Kap would need to be out. We saw that earlier in the year.

Let's see; an elite defenseman like prime Doughty or Pietroangelo or an elite offensive defenseman like Makar or Fox. An elite offensive player like Kaprizov or even Fiala. Hell just having a goal scorer that doesn't look completely lost in the AHL would be nice.

So played two games against a top 4 teams...7 games total against the top 8...but a decent record than I expected.
 

BagHead

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I don't think Kap would need to be out. We saw that earlier in the year.

Let's see; an elite defenseman like prime Doughty or Pietroangelo or an elite offensive defenseman like Makar or Fox. An elite offensive player like Kaprizov or even Fiala. Hell just having a goal scorer that doesn't look completely lost in the AHL would be nice.

So played two games against a top 4 teams...7 games total against the top 8...but a decent record than I expected.
So your argument is that the Wild should have purposely gutted their depth and goaltending in order to bottom out? I'd like to know your plan for replacing the quality lost there. If it's reasonable and likely effective, I'm on board, but otherwise I don't think it's realistic this team would ever be able to bottom out with Kaprizov on the team.

I absolutely agree that there's more than one hole, though, if the purpose is to win a Cup. Top C, 2nd line RW, and likely1st pairing D, and maybe starting goalie, but Gus has allayed some of my fears there. I'd need to see what he can do with the lion's share of starts.
 

Digitalbooya

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I don’t wish to find out, but if Kap is out 10 games, we lose 8 out of 10.
Boldy-Hartman-Zucc
GREEF
Rossi-Gaudreau-Walker
Duhaime-Dewar-Reaves/Shaw

Brodin-Dumba
Middleton-Spurgeon
Merrill-Addison

Gus
MAF

This team doesn’t lose 8 of 10 unless unusual circumstances happen. I think Rossi/Walker would get a call up at this point. There would be some growing pains, but I see at least .500 hockey.
 

Prior

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Of all things to be worried about, the goaltending position is certainly not one. You can do a lot worse than having Wallstedt (20) and Gustavsson (24). All the while knowing full well that’s a position that’s as easy as any to pickup reasonable NHL solutions.
 

Digitalbooya

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I don't think Kap would need to be out. We saw that earlier in the year.

Let's see; an elite defenseman like prime Doughty or Pietroangelo or an elite offensive defenseman like Makar or Fox. An elite offensive player like Kaprizov or even Fiala. Hell just having a goal scorer that doesn't look completely lost in the AHL would be nice.

So played two games against a top 4 teams...7 games total against the top 8...but a decent record than I expected.
You saw an anomaly earlier in the year.

Brodin-Spurgeon-Dumba is a really solid top 3. The players you are looking for are elite superstars/upgrades. That doesn’t make any of the top 3 a “major hole.” I would describe a major hole as something like our 1C situation. Steel is probably a 4th liner, but yet he’s next to two 95+ point pacing players at the 1C spot

The Wild already have a Kaprizov. Are you expecting this team to have two top 5 players? Who are we, Edmonton? They just got back one of their best 5v5 goal scorers from a year ago too. The top 9 is basically set outside of either 1C or 2RW (if Hartman goes back to 1C).
 

thestonedkoala

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You saw an anomaly earlier in the year.

Brodin-Spurgeon-Dumba is a really solid top 3. The players you are looking for are elite superstars/upgrades. That doesn’t make any of the top 3 a “major hole.” I would describe a major hole as something like our 1C situation. Steel is probably a 4th liner, but yet he’s next to two 95+ point pacing players at the 1C spot

The Wild already have a Kaprizov. Are you expecting this team to have two top 5 players? Who are we, Edmonton? They just got back one of their best 5v5 goal scorers from a year ago too. The top 9 is basically set outside of either 1C or 2RW (if Hartman goes back to 1C).
Did we see an anomaly or did this team start regressing?

Brodin - Spurgeon - Dumba are a solid top 3, but the defense has done jack shit in the playoffs and they've been together since 2013 and haven't gotten it done in the playoffs. Missing a top defenseman like a Josi, Chara, Makar, Doughty, Keith/Seabrook, Hedman, Pietroangelo is a major hole. You can't just add two top 4 guys and go, yeah we got a top defense.

I'm not expecting the team to have two top 5 players, but you can't deny that teams have more than a couple elite players; Colorado won last year because they had MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanan, Makar and then they had depth on top of that talent. Minnesota has Kaprizov, Zuccarello and uh...

Tampa Bay? Hedman, Vas, Stamkos, Point, Kucherov - they have elite talent everywhere.

Minnesota is in the middle of the pack at everything, which is the result they get in the playoffs. Not good enough to be anything more than just good and if you're okay with one and done teams in the playoffs, than yeah Minnesota has that in spades.

Last year may have been one of the best chances Minnesota has had to make noise in the playoffs and they got curb stomped by St. Louis with one of the worst defenses I've seen in the playoffs.

Fleury and Gus are probably one of the worst starting goaltending tandems in the league. Gus is in the middle of the pack, Fleury is in the back of the pack. They are probably in the bottom 5 of goaltending tandems in the league and probably the worst out of all the playoff teams.
 

Digitalbooya

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Did we see an anomaly or did this team start regressing?

Brodin - Spurgeon - Dumba are a solid top 3, but the defense has done jack shit in the playoffs and they've been together since 2013 and haven't gotten it done in the playoffs. Missing a top defenseman like a Josi, Chara, Makar, Doughty, Keith/Seabrook, Hedman, Pietroangelo is a major hole. You can't just add two top 4 guys and go, yeah we got a top defense.

I'm not expecting the team to have two top 5 players, but you can't deny that teams have more than a couple elite players; Colorado won last year because they had MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanan, Makar and then they had depth on top of that talent. Minnesota has Kaprizov, Zuccarello and uh...

Tampa Bay? Hedman, Vas, Stamkos, Point, Kucherov - they have elite talent everywhere.

Minnesota is in the middle of the pack at everything, which is the result they get in the playoffs. Not good enough to be anything more than just good and if you're okay with one and done teams in the playoffs, than yeah Minnesota has that in spades.

Last year may have been one of the best chances Minnesota has had to make noise in the playoffs and they got curb stomped by St. Louis with one of the worst defenses I've seen in the playoffs.

Fleury and Gus are probably one of the worst starting goaltending tandems in the league. Gus is in the middle of the pack, Fleury is in the back of the pack. They are probably in the bottom 5 of goaltending tandems in the league and probably the worst out of all the playoff teams.
Definitely an anomaly.

They had a defensemen type that you are listing (Suter) from 2012 through 2021 and didn’t do jack shit. Probably because the real issue isn’t the defense, but rather our centers have been outclassed in almost every series… Really came to a head last season against the Blues.

Colorado had to suck for years to get the talent they have and they had to trade for Kadri just to push through the playoffs. We have 2 elite forwards and 2 very excellent complementary forwards. Can people make an argument that Kap/Zucc/Boldy/Hartman isn’t a decent top 6 set of wings? It would be hard to do so. We need a top center. Maybe there’s an argument for two top 6 centers needed, but I’m hoping Rossi is that guy and maybe Guerin can pull a rabbit out of his hat for a 1C.

Tampa Bay has a $89M roster. We have a $65M roster.

I’m looking at playoffs for the next three years despite heavy buyouts. In the last year of the buyouts I see Guerin being aggressive on the trade market to push for a Cup the last two years of Kaprizov’s current contract. So that means this year and next will likely be bottom of the playoff teams. Then trade for a guy we can fit at the TDL of 24-25 and re-sign with our tons of cap space in the summer of 2025. Many of our prospects should be pushing onto the NHL squad at that point as well. Our Cup window starts in 2025.

That might be one of the hottest takes I’ve seen on Gus/Fleury. Gus is 12th in the league for sv% with at least 5GP. He’s ahead of Vasi, Shesterkin, etc. Tied with Oettinger. Agreed on Fleury, but it is what it is.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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Boldy-Hartman-Zucc
GREEF
Rossi-Gaudreau-Walker
Duhaime-Dewar-Reaves/Shaw

Brodin-Dumba
Middleton-Spurgeon
Merrill-Addison

Gus
MAF

This team doesn’t lose 8 of 10 unless unusual circumstances happen. I think Rossi/Walker would get a call up at this point. There would be some growing pains, but I see at least .500 hockey.
Obviously it depends on certain things (home/road, opponent) but it just takes a quick scan of the stat sheet to realize that this lineup would struggle scoring goals right now. I think the best-case scenario would be to get to OT/shootouts in 1-1 games.
 
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