Management Bill Guerin
- Thread starter BuiumSaveUs
- Start date
Would love to see how this poll has changed from it’s inception. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; Guerin simply doesn’t have the intelligence to be a GM in this, maybe any, league.
This may not be a popular opinion. And, it's not one that I wanted to have. I've been resisting this for a long time...but....
Guerin...
Hasn't made even one move yet which cannot be described from the perspective of "I want guys to think the RIGHT way and play the game the RIGHT way." By which is meant, 'don't take chances', 'be physical', 'do as you are told, even from the GM', 'be tough'.....etc. Every single move comes down to this. He wants 'old school' guys because that is how he thinks.
However, that is completely the WRONG way to go in the present day NHL. And, thus we have an old goalie (who replaced another old goalie), and we have an enforcer (even though we were already the most penalized team in the league, or nearly), and the construction of our squad has no future-thinking in it.
Every move Guerin has made can be thought of as "This is right because it feels right and I want to do it, and I'll figure the rest out later."
In other words, he is an ex-dumb-hockey-player, and is completely over his head in the GM role.
As I said, I didn't want to come to this conclusion. But I am now faced with a requirement that I have to. It's simply the facts. So, the future is really hopeless.
Now, consider what might have been:
Buyout Parise, but not Suter.
Sign Fiala for 7.2M/yr two years ago.
Trade Dumba last summer.
Now:
Kap, hart, Zucc....16.7
GREEF..10.3
Fiala (7.2), Boldy(1), everyone else at 1M/each for 2 more years.....9
4th line....3 + 13th FWD....4
Parise buyout....6.4M (next year, but we'll count this year) 47M forwards
Spurgeon, Brodin....13.5
Suter, Dumba....13.5
Middleton, ?,?...4.4......31.5 D
Goalies at 5M
This is an 83.5M roster. And, it's a much better roster than we are watching now.
For next year, Dumba comes off the books, Boldy gets signed, and Faber plays D. Parise's buyout increases, but so what, the cap goes up as well.
That would be a squad with talent. Instead we look at junk.
Guerin...
Hasn't made even one move yet which cannot be described from the perspective of "I want guys to think the RIGHT way and play the game the RIGHT way." By which is meant, 'don't take chances', 'be physical', 'do as you are told, even from the GM', 'be tough'.....etc. Every single move comes down to this. He wants 'old school' guys because that is how he thinks.
However, that is completely the WRONG way to go in the present day NHL. And, thus we have an old goalie (who replaced another old goalie), and we have an enforcer (even though we were already the most penalized team in the league, or nearly), and the construction of our squad has no future-thinking in it.
Every move Guerin has made can be thought of as "This is right because it feels right and I want to do it, and I'll figure the rest out later."
In other words, he is an ex-dumb-hockey-player, and is completely over his head in the GM role.
As I said, I didn't want to come to this conclusion. But I am now faced with a requirement that I have to. It's simply the facts. So, the future is really hopeless.
Now, consider what might have been:
Buyout Parise, but not Suter.
Sign Fiala for 7.2M/yr two years ago.
Trade Dumba last summer.
Now:
Kap, hart, Zucc....16.7
GREEF..10.3
Fiala (7.2), Boldy(1), everyone else at 1M/each for 2 more years.....9
4th line....3 + 13th FWD....4
Parise buyout....6.4M (next year, but we'll count this year) 47M forwards
Spurgeon, Brodin....13.5
Suter, Dumba....13.5
Middleton, ?,?...4.4......31.5 D
Goalies at 5M
This is an 83.5M roster. And, it's a much better roster than we are watching now.
For next year, Dumba comes off the books, Boldy gets signed, and Faber plays D. Parise's buyout increases, but so what, the cap goes up as well.
That would be a squad with talent. Instead we look at junk.
It's becoming more and more obvious that he never really intended to contend with $15M less cap space than everyone else. It's been all about slow playing and building through the draft, which of course was going to take years.
And all of that sadly means we are missing out on Kaprizov's prime.
And all of that sadly means we are missing out on Kaprizov's prime.
Minnewildsota
He who laughs last thinks slowest
- Jun 7, 2010
- 8,882
- 3,092
lol yall thought we were going for the Cup during these/those years? It was lip service to the fans because noone wants to hear, "Hey, we're going to suck for 4 years"
To think otherwise is just foolish, IMHO.
Word of advice:
Don't go too far down the rabbit hole. You'll just end up wasting your time just to be angry (like me).
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I think that this is probably right. My worry is that it isn't.
You are, by far, my favorite poster Wabit
! Honestly it amazes me how much energy people actually put into this. Their prerogative of course, but still leaves me amazed
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
It takes almost no energy to type words.You are, by far, my favorite poster Wabit
Honestly it amazes me how much energy people actually put into this. Their prerogative of course, but still leaves me amazed
My keyboard probably disagrees. It would for sure file abuse charges against me if it could.
Southern Minny
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2021
- 1,160
- 393
This team needs more grit , more guys that are good in the Lockerroom and play the right way. I’m thinking Dumba and a 1st for Lucic.
So that means Marchand is out then as a possible option, right? He only licks people.
I think Guerin doesn't understand the pond he is fishing in. I think he thinks that he has forever to bring about a winner, and that it has to be "my way". What he doesn't understand is that Minnesota fans are fed up with mediocrity. It was one thing when Lemaire was here and it was an accomplishment just be be mediocre, as they were an expansion team. Another thing entirely 20 years later, when year after year the team finds a way to be a nonentity in the playoffs.
The way he is going about it now, we won't have anything near a viable till....never? We have another two seasons after this one of cap penalties, which he will use an excuse, then, when we finally are on an even playing field with other teams we will see that our best player ever will already be in his late 20's, and likely wanting to move on due to the lack of competitiveness of the team. By that time Brodin and Spurgeon will be old, and Dumba gone, so our defense will be, at best, somewhat the same as it is now. Our forwards...are they the next coming of MiG, Coyle, Nino, Zucker, Haula? A bunch of ultimately average, serviceable forwards?
I'll tell you this. I don't know that i am going to be watching much of the Wild in 3-4 years time, if not earlier. I just don't think this guy knows what he is doing. I think he is arrogant, makes emotional decisions, and is just not that smart. I don't see any way that the team performs any better this year than they did last year, and the next two years look pretty grim, also. Both he and the coach love to talk about character- hey, it's great to have it- but seem to ignore, misunderstand, or take for granted, talent, and how rare it is to find.
The North Stars had way better, more talented, more interesting teams. While they never did win a Cup, 20 odd years in they had already been to two Cup finals, and semi regularly got to the 3rd round of the playoffs. This team will be lucky to win a playoff round by 2025, by which time the franchise will be 25 yo.
I don't think I'm up for it. Last year was interesting...laid the proverbial egg in the playoffs, but the Zucc/Kap and Boldy/Fiala duos were interesting, and seemed to be the basis for an attack that this franchise has never had....pffftt...it's gone. All because of the arrogant, lazy bonehead in charge.
The way he is going about it now, we won't have anything near a viable till....never? We have another two seasons after this one of cap penalties, which he will use an excuse, then, when we finally are on an even playing field with other teams we will see that our best player ever will already be in his late 20's, and likely wanting to move on due to the lack of competitiveness of the team. By that time Brodin and Spurgeon will be old, and Dumba gone, so our defense will be, at best, somewhat the same as it is now. Our forwards...are they the next coming of MiG, Coyle, Nino, Zucker, Haula? A bunch of ultimately average, serviceable forwards?
I'll tell you this. I don't know that i am going to be watching much of the Wild in 3-4 years time, if not earlier. I just don't think this guy knows what he is doing. I think he is arrogant, makes emotional decisions, and is just not that smart. I don't see any way that the team performs any better this year than they did last year, and the next two years look pretty grim, also. Both he and the coach love to talk about character- hey, it's great to have it- but seem to ignore, misunderstand, or take for granted, talent, and how rare it is to find.
The North Stars had way better, more talented, more interesting teams. While they never did win a Cup, 20 odd years in they had already been to two Cup finals, and semi regularly got to the 3rd round of the playoffs. This team will be lucky to win a playoff round by 2025, by which time the franchise will be 25 yo.
I don't think I'm up for it. Last year was interesting...laid the proverbial egg in the playoffs, but the Zucc/Kap and Boldy/Fiala duos were interesting, and seemed to be the basis for an attack that this franchise has never had....pffftt...it's gone. All because of the arrogant, lazy bonehead in charge.
- Aug 9, 2011
- 3,265
- 2,217
responding to the bolded. You know who got the "old school" guys completely worked up, back in the day? Bobby Orr. They were pissed because he wouldn't "play his position". He himself has said that if he played in a later period in established organizations rather than the frozen rivers and ponds of his youth, he never would've developed into what he ended up being...the best hockey player that ever lived.
Guerin and Evason hated Fiala because he made risky plays, was fiery and occasionally took bad penalties. I was critical of fiala too, but then i saw that he tried hard, tried to change and play both ways,and most of all, saw that he was so bloody talented AND had chemistry with a wonderful young player that we had. BG took that for granted...
I could not have said that any better nor do I have any energy to try. Being a MN sports fan is best defined as historically driven statistical apathy. You can not have watched sports here for the last 30 years and not be fully apathetic. No outsider can look at the run of absolute ineptitude and improbable feats of failure our major 4 have served up since 1991 and not understand the apathy those of us with functioning brains feel. It mind bending just how many times our teams have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory or just outright shit the bed.
Guerin didn’t take it for granted. He hated it.
It’s completely insane to say that Guerin isn’t thinking of the future or that the future is “hopeless.” Our prospect pool is absolutely stacked at almost every position. Guerin hasn’t traded any 1st round pick and only traded a 2nd in a year he had another 2nd.
People have been crying to build through the draft since I became a fan back in 2005 and that’s what they are doing. Yeah, the NHL team might take a hit in the early stages and that initially looks bad for Guerin. I think he’s playing the long game while some of you are only viewing the short term.
We all took the L with Fiala getting traded. He wasn’t coming back. Zuccarello wasn’t getting moved. You can wish it all you want, but it wasn’t happening.
Reaves has looked fantastic. The more I watch him, the more I think he’s a perfect fit for our 4th line. He’s an energy guy amongst the “robots.” People got butthurt over him being traded for. So far, I hope you are enjoying eating your crow as much as I am. He doesn’t look like a liability at all and he’s been a net positive on more nights than not. He’s not fast, but he’s like Greenway when it comes to puck protection along the boards. He’s an absolute force.
The NHL team is stacked outside of a true 1C. Perhaps Guerin hasn’t needed to trade for an elite skill player because all of the spots we need filled (1C) are not available or don’t make sense (Horvat). He shouldn’t just trade for a skill guy just for the sake of trading for one. Players acquired should be a need. Name the spot that’s open at the moment if we were to acquire a 1C. Answer: there isn’t a spot open. We have too many forwards on the team as is. Hell, our prospects need to have an opening to fight for eventually too. Right now our top 6 wings are set at Kap-Zucc, Boldy-Hartman. That’s not a bad group IMO. It’s also funny that some of you got worked up over Walker having to be sent down now that Hartman is back. It’s almost like any move that’s made people will be complaining about it, regardless of what happened. A nothing pick for a guy to energize the team? Pissed off posters. A quality NHL player returns from injury forcing the team to send down a rookie player that had 0 points in 4 games so he can develop further next to our top prospect in the AHL? Pissed off posters. I truly believe it doesn’t matter what Guerin does anymore. Some of you are just gonna be pissed regardless.
We have almost all good/decent contracts. The one potentially bad contract is Spurgeon, and he is performing right along the lines of it right now.
The team is third in the division. Four points from 1st with a game in hand. Currently on a 5 game win streak where they have outscored their opponents 17-5 (3.4 gf/gp, 1 ga/gp). They are doing that with almost $13M in dead cap. I’ll take that W any day.
Lastly, I can’t believe some of you can watch the last two years and want Suter back. That dude is slow as shit, a bad personality and undermined the “team first” mentality. You guys realize that Guerin initially wanted to just buy out Suter and not Parise, right? The dude was a problem.
People have been crying to build through the draft since I became a fan back in 2005 and that’s what they are doing. Yeah, the NHL team might take a hit in the early stages and that initially looks bad for Guerin. I think he’s playing the long game while some of you are only viewing the short term.
We all took the L with Fiala getting traded. He wasn’t coming back. Zuccarello wasn’t getting moved. You can wish it all you want, but it wasn’t happening.
Reaves has looked fantastic. The more I watch him, the more I think he’s a perfect fit for our 4th line. He’s an energy guy amongst the “robots.” People got butthurt over him being traded for. So far, I hope you are enjoying eating your crow as much as I am. He doesn’t look like a liability at all and he’s been a net positive on more nights than not. He’s not fast, but he’s like Greenway when it comes to puck protection along the boards. He’s an absolute force.
The NHL team is stacked outside of a true 1C. Perhaps Guerin hasn’t needed to trade for an elite skill player because all of the spots we need filled (1C) are not available or don’t make sense (Horvat). He shouldn’t just trade for a skill guy just for the sake of trading for one. Players acquired should be a need. Name the spot that’s open at the moment if we were to acquire a 1C. Answer: there isn’t a spot open. We have too many forwards on the team as is. Hell, our prospects need to have an opening to fight for eventually too. Right now our top 6 wings are set at Kap-Zucc, Boldy-Hartman. That’s not a bad group IMO. It’s also funny that some of you got worked up over Walker having to be sent down now that Hartman is back. It’s almost like any move that’s made people will be complaining about it, regardless of what happened. A nothing pick for a guy to energize the team? Pissed off posters. A quality NHL player returns from injury forcing the team to send down a rookie player that had 0 points in 4 games so he can develop further next to our top prospect in the AHL? Pissed off posters. I truly believe it doesn’t matter what Guerin does anymore. Some of you are just gonna be pissed regardless.
We have almost all good/decent contracts. The one potentially bad contract is Spurgeon, and he is performing right along the lines of it right now.
The team is third in the division. Four points from 1st with a game in hand. Currently on a 5 game win streak where they have outscored their opponents 17-5 (3.4 gf/gp, 1 ga/gp). They are doing that with almost $13M in dead cap. I’ll take that W any day.
Lastly, I can’t believe some of you can watch the last two years and want Suter back. That dude is slow as shit, a bad personality and undermined the “team first” mentality. You guys realize that Guerin initially wanted to just buy out Suter and not Parise, right? The dude was a problem.
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I wouldn't say stacked at almost every position. While Wally is a great candidate for goaltender of the future, there is literally no one behind him. Center depth is questionable at best and there is no depth at right wing.
I think the only thing stacked is depth defenseman at this point and maybe left wing.
At this point, Rossi is very questionable, Khus is in the KHL for another few years and Oghren may tap out as nothing more than a good third liner and a poor second liner.
It's a stretch to say that Minnesota is stacked when in fact they have depth and depth and stacked are two different things. Having a bunch of Shaw's and Duhaimes only and not having a few Kaprizov type prospects is what is keeping this team in mediocrity.
Because they are concerned that in the short term, Kaprizov is going to be tired of the team spinning their wheels in the dirt and will peace out leaving Minnesota with what? And there is a huge difference between building through the draft and building through the draft.
And Dumba isn't getting traded either. Not with this current run. Zuccs makes the most sense on why he should get moved. He's older, his contract is expiring.
I mean if you consider Duhaime, Shaw, Foligno, Greenway, Steel, Gaudreau, Dewar, as irreplaceable good for you.
Their last five games were against: Vancouver, Edmonton, Detroit and Ottawa - a whopping 64 - 73 - 16. Let's see how they do in late December, early January.
I think their only quality win is against Carolina? Dallas?
I don't think people want Suter back for his play on the ice, but they are paying for TWO defensemen. Goligoski's cap hit (or Merill) is 6-7 million higher as the Wild had to replace Suter. I did not like Suter, but that doesn't mean I can't see the value in keeping him as a depth defenseman.
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