I was probably easier on Fletcher than I should've been. I did not like his habit of trading away draft picks. The Staal signing was great, though, as was picking up guys like Spurgeon for nothing.
Management Bill Guerin
- Thread starter BuiumSaveUs
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Charlie Coyle played with Matt Nieto and Adam Clendening? Oh and Alex Chiasson.
Boldy played with Newhook
Granlund wasn't just the #1 player out of Europe, he was in contention to be the number 1 prospect in the NHL. Let's see Rossi get there.
Spurgeon
Registered User
Fletcher made this team into a perennial playoff team. The Suter & Parise signings were a huge part of that. Sure, the cap problems were always something we knew would occur towards the end of their tenure. However, Guerin accelerated that timeline unnecessarily with Suter’s buyout.
As shitty of a personality that Fenton was, I do wonder if this team would be in a better position with him still around. A lot of the moves and rumored moves (Domi/Dvorak) that he attempted to make were good ones.
GuerinUp
Registered User
disagree all you want, but ill be the first one to say i told you so in a year or two.
I agree that Boldy now is a good prospect, but he doesn't have the physicality of Coyle, which in my mind puts him higher than Boldy.
Ultimately, the Wild don't have a prospect like Coyle in their stables at all, so it's hard to compare Coyle with someone like Boldy, who is more of a two-way playmaker and is a compliment guy.
Minnesnota
Registered User
Coyle is softer than baby shit. Honestly, what the f*** are you even talking about?
He got neutered by the NHL. Do you remember his shift against Columbus? Like am I that old to remember how physical Coyle was until the NHL slapped him down?
GuerinUp
Registered User
coyle was never physical..... management (much like with greenway) constantly complained how he didnt use his body as an advantage.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
He sure wasn't soft when he was 20 years old against 16/17 year old CHLers...
Coyle was rarely physical in the hit 'n' hurt way, though it did happen on occasion. He's generally used his strength more to be strong on the puck.
He was a highly regarded prospect but I think you've mythologized him a little too much in this thread. There was an uptick in hype late in his D+2 season after he left BU for Saint John, but more than a few observers pointed out that going from the NCAA to a superpower QMJHL team was a step down in competition. Prospect rankings of Coyle at that point in time were accordingly all over the map.
Coyle had all sorts of great tools...maybe better than Boldy's. He just didn't use them very often. Boldy is a better offensive player. Better hands, and better IQ. If he ends up being as strong as Coyle then he will be really something. Rantanen comes to mind. I liked Coyle a lot, but he was a tease, never really showing his talent consistently. I think that Boldy will be more consistent, though he might take quite a few games to adjust to the NHL.
Coyle was picked 28th oa, and was a bit of a steal.
Boldy was picked 12th oa, and most considered him to be a bit of a steal at the time he was picked.
Time will tell. After watching all of Boldy's AHL games last year I became more of a fan. Just don't know if he is too passive, or if there is a competitor underneath that placid exterior.
Coyle was picked 28th oa, and was a bit of a steal.
Boldy was picked 12th oa, and most considered him to be a bit of a steal at the time he was picked.
Time will tell. After watching all of Boldy's AHL games last year I became more of a fan. Just don't know if he is too passive, or if there is a competitor underneath that placid exterior.
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BlackBusa24
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- Dec 13, 2018
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I will hand it to you coyle out of the box was probably the better prospect... at least until probably a year or two after he was acquired. Maybe the shark saw something in him they didn't like though? You just never know.
I know you like to panic and all... As it's in your signature... But all prospects are pretty much at a level playing field once they are drafted and you really don't know what you have until they step in the NHL
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BlackBusa24
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- Dec 13, 2018
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Exactly this...I have previously quoted myself from those days bringing up that exact concern about the downgrade in competition hurting his development as things suddenly became too easy.
In finding that quote, I saw many others with the exact same concern. He wasn't on this super hype train that some want us to believe.
Dickie Dunn
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Rooting for Coyle was like playing golf. Mostly meh and then suddenly it clicks and you are drawn back in….immediately followed by a lot more meh.
nickschultzfan
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- Jan 7, 2009
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Guys like Coyle are fine players, but you cannot pay them much to keep them around. Greenway is in the same camp.
In his first season, the NHL came down hard on Coyle. I remember specifically his game in Columbus; it was like night and day.
Video: Wild's Coyle gets ejected after Anisimov hit, Dubinsky fight | ProHockeyTalk | NBC Sports
But Coyle was definitely in consideration for top 5 if not top 3 prospect at the time before he broke into the league.
I think Minnesota didn't develop Coyle properly either. It was a bad combination all around.
BTW are all the centers taken now? Stepan signed, so that leaves Eichel on the market as the only one I can think of. Unless there is another like Hertl, but I don't think they are going to move him.
GuerinUp
Registered User
i think coyle just isnt as good as you think he is, and thats why hes not great at hockey. .5 ppg players are a dime a dozen. hes never stood out points wise except the year he was on the seadogs as an older player. niederreiter was always the better prospect imo and we didnt draft either of them
Sorry, should have added - for the Wild. He was considered a top 5/3 prospect. Based off his upside.
Minnesota Wild 2013-14 Prospect Rankings: Part 1
Minnesota Wild's Top 10 (and more) Prospects 2012, the future's so bright I gotta wear shades!
It's hard to find rankings from 8-9 years ago.
Even Russo had him rated in the top 5.
GuerinUp
Registered User
both of those lists have terrible prospects in them which was exactly my point that our prospect pool is miles better now, also the 1st link goes as far to claim coyle is a "complimentary player" further making my point that he wasnt a better prospect than boldy.
Is it any different now? You realize in 2012-2013, Minnesota had a top 3 prospect pool and one of the first teams to ever have 6 prospects in the top 100 for THN? A lot of fans were high on Lucia, Phillips had potential and Olofsson did as well.
Our prospect pool is not miles better now - let me know when they have a top 5 prospect in the NHL again, because Rossi, Wallstedt, Boldy and Lambos aren't.
I don't think you realize how good Minnesota's prospect pool was thought of back in 2012-2013.
What they turned out to be and what they were thought of aren't the same thing. For all we know Rossi will end up as a middle 6 center, Boldy a complimentary winger, Lambos and Addison top 4 defensemen. Beckman doesn't show up and gets washed out.
GuerinUp
Registered User
Oh, Top 5 in the Wild's prospect pool, yeah. No arguments there.
My personal read is that Boldy has the build and athleticism to put him on par with what Coyle eventually became in terms of size, strength and physicality. But in terms of hands, vision and raw offensive ability I think Boldy's easily been a cut above Coyle at this point in his development curve.
How much that bears on what Guerin's been cooking up so far... I dunno. I do think our prospect pool is currently on par with what we had in 2012 and I think that's a good thing. It doesn't guarantee success, but it's certainly better than not having a strong pool. And I don't think the collective fate of that earlier group really says anything about what the future holds for Boldy, Rossi and the rest.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
And for all we know, they could all be a lot better.
