Bill Guerin investigated for alleged abuse

[snag]

A valid but very separate discussion, nobody likes a snake in the grass but the snake in the grass also doesn't generally "walk on eggshells" either because they're psychos and practiced bullies who know where the blind spots are.

My response was to some "lament of the common people" and how it's just too hard to navigate a workplace now when you have to walk on eggshells with everyone you speak to, and... that's just not true unless you have some shit you probably need to get out of your daily speech anyway. In my experience people who feel like things are "too sensitive" think because they're not dropping hard slurs they don't have problematic speech patterns, and then turn around and call any vaguely Asian ethnicity "Oriental" or talk about getting "gypped" at the corner store, or display a massive lack of understanding of sexuality/gender and don't want to concede "what they should be allowed to say" in order to learn to be better.

Not saying this is the poster I quoted directly of course, but that's what the resistance reminds me of.

You know what....I will say this.....I have a unisex name. It is what it is. I mean, when I see John (him/his) I chuckle. I mean, are we all supposed announce this now? As a guy with a unisex name who actually does get mixed up in non-verbal communication, it has never entered my mind nor do I have any intent. It just isn't a big deal to me.

Anyway, there was an email thread going between our teams, and I was referred to as she multiple times before I politely corrected the person in a Teams message on the side with a smily and a reassurance it is no big deal. And she was so apologetic, and I just laughed it off and put her at ease.

Point is, we have created certain element within our environment where we DO have to walk on eggshells. The above, if delivered to the wrong person, could have landed her in sensitivity and awareness training with an entry in their personnel file....and for what? I knew a guy in college who freaked out in the class (and stormed out!!!) because the instructor misspelled his name yelling about how much he is spending and they "can't even spell my goddamned name right?!". It was Iain but the instructor spelt it Ian....same pronunciation. Like big whoop right?

Not everything is obvious. Not everything is malicious. And some shit people get upset about has nothing to do with speech and everything to do with their entitlement to never be offended.

 

[Sol]

Only read the first page,

My solid conclusion is that Bill Guerin is based.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Once his AGM quit, I kind of figured it was Guerin at that point.

Absolutely would not want that guy as my teammate, I guess he didn't become a better person once he retired.

 

[LeafGrief]

The only interesting thing about it is that some of us are continuing to try to understand others and have respect for their feelings day to day

The deep irony of you writing this as you completely dismiss my perspective and arguments is as funny as I said it was the first time.

The sanctimonious will applaud each other to the end, don't let me stop you.

 

[Atoyot]

d

You know what....I will say this.....I have a unisex name. It is what it is. I mean, when I see John (him/his) I chuckle. I mean, are we all supposed announce this now? As a guy with a unisex name who actually does get mixed up in non-verbal communication, it has never entered my mind nor do I have any intent. It just isn't a big deal to me.

Anyway, there was an email thread going between our teams, and I was referred to as she multiple times before I politely corrected the person in a Teams message on the side with a smily and a reassurance it is no big deal. And she was so apologetic, and I just laughed it off and put her at ease.

Point is, we have created certain element within our environment where we DO have to walk on eggshells. The above, if delivered to someone other than me, could have landed that person in sensitivity and awareness training. I knew a guy in college who freaked out in the class (and stormed out!!!) because the instructor misspelled his name. It was Iain but the instructor spelt it Ian....same pronunciation. Like big whoop right?

Not everything is obvious. Not everything is malicious. And some shit people get upset about has nothing to do with speech and everything to do with their entitlement to never be offended.

I think that's more a show of support and acknowledgment than anything.

 

[MNRube]

Guerin is a guy that once tomahawked a teammate during training camp and then hit him again with his stick while the guy was on the ice. Are we really surprised he’s an asshole?

Edit: I see some others already mentioned this. Glad I’m not the only one who remembers.

Nothing he’s done since arriving in MN suggests he has matured at all. He’s pretty much fought with everyone. Those veterans that kept mouth shut and went along with him got rewarded with player-friendly retirement contracts complete with NMCs.

 

[HTFN]

You know what....I will say this.....I have a unisex name. It is what it is. I mean, when I see John (him/his) I chuckle. I mean, are we all supposed announce this now? As a guy with a unisex name who actually does get mixed up in non-verbal communication, it has never entered my mind nor do I have any intent. It just isn't a big deal to me.

Anyway, there was an email thread going between our teams, and I was referred to as she multiple times before I politely corrected the person in a Teams message on the side with a smily and a reassurance it is no big deal. And she was so apologetic, and I just laughed it off and put her at ease.

Point is, we have created certain element within our environment where we DO have to walk on eggshells. The above, if delivered to someone other than me, could have landed that person in sensitivity and awareness training. I knew a guy in college who freaked out in the class (and stormed out!!!) because the instructor misspelled his name. It was Iain but the instructor spelt it Ian....same pronunciation. Like big whoop right?

Not everything is obvious. Not everything is malicious. And some shit people get upset about has nothing to do with speech and everything to do with their entitlement to never be offended.

It’s great that you have the luxury for none of these mixups to matter to you, I have the same luxury when misidentified just by having a name with a lot of pronunciation and spelling tweaks, and I also don’t care to correct people. Fact is I’m not in a gender transition and my right to take it easy is one I exercise but it doesn’t supersede another’s right to be identified as they choose.

John isn’t identifying himself because he thinks it’s confusing, he’s doing it to normalize the practice so a transitioned John doesn’t need to “he/him” himself as a trans tell. Same reason I have it on some of my stuff, nobody’s getting confused with this beard, it’s not the point.

Also she’s unlikely to get sensitivity training based on her immediate response and understanding so… even the sensitivity training would tell you it’s okay to make mistakes in the moment so long as you treat the correction with respect, and she did. That’s a healthy evolving workplace with understanding of backgrounds, and how it should go.

 

[KnightofBoston]

The article says the employee who filed the complaint is a 10 year employee and somebody Guerin interacts with every day. So not just yelling at some intern.

"The employee who filed the complaint, according to team sources, is Andrew Heydt, the Wild’s director of team operations and player relations. Heydt has been in that position for 10 years and oversees team travel, logistics, and player and alumni relations.

Heydt has been absent from work the past couple of days after traveling with the team on its most recent road trip. In his role, Heydt interacts with Guerin on an almost daily basis."

Not that that would make it ok

Look, I apologize to my students if I get a bit extra with them even if they were the ones that caused a problem - there’s always a better way. We don’t need to be verbally abusing anyone, full stop.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Will they get docked a first round pick,

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

He yelled at a guy and that’s it? It’s a hockey club. It’s not a kindergarten.

It’s a professional work setting and business. Yelling at your coworkers isn’t OK anywhere.

 

[Strangle]

If you’re in a leadership position, chances are you’ve had to go through some sort of formal complaint process at some point.

You are accountable for people on your team doing their jobs correctly, and part of that is sometimes getting people to do shit when they’re trying not to do the shit you need them to do. Or they’re screwing it up constantly.

Then when you have to call them out on it, they say you’re abusing them or harassing them.

It’s just part of the job sometimes. An allegation is literally meaningless, they investigate and then it’s decided if it was abusive, or illegal or against company policy, etc

This investigation came back with nothing. The system is working

 

[Strangle]

Bootlickers will lick boots, it’s the unfortunate plight of subservient wusses who have been trained to take that shit from higher ups. Forgive them, they know not that this ain’t normal.

People like this usually think it’s okay to yell at your boss, or accuse them of abuse, or call them racist, or whatever lies they want to spin to keep the job they’re incompetent at.

But a boss demanding a higher standard of performance from a subordinate is WAY OVER THE LINE!

This is where this ‘power dynamics’ ideology is screwing people’s brains up.

There is already a higher standard of behavior for leaders and a much lower standard for subordinates.

 

[rynryn]

Whatever your stance on his actions (we don't know exactly what was said or how it was said) it wasn't deemed a fireable offense by the team. I imagine it couldn't have been too bad if it hasn't escalated to a league investigation. Acceptable or not, I suspect it didn't include any language that would be considered racist, sexist, or homophobic so you have to consider the team might face a wrongful termination lawsuit if what he did didn't meet the criteria for that.

 

[Strangle]

Words that have no legal meaning.

I mean, there are laws against Threats of Violance that could fit and make you right if there was any evidence of tbat. but that's all criminal code.

Whenever I’m interviewed and I’m asked what my leadership style is, I always answer “fear and intimidation” with a wink and a smile.

If I don’t get the reaction I’m looking for, I flex both arms.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Guerin is known to be a POS even from his days in Pit surprised it hasn’t caught on yet

I'll can't recall all the details, it's been 16 years and I might have slept a few times (and moved a few times, and lost notebooks and printouts of articles) since then, but I know when he was in STL in 2006-07, he took a 1-year deal because he didn't have anywhere else interested. By the time he got traded, he'd worn out his welcome around the team. As in "Doug Weight when he was traded to Anaheim, persona non grata" kind of worn out his welcome. And I don't think he left the Sharks on great terms, either.

Why are ex players in management roles in hockey teams, anyway?

Howard Cosell had the perfect name for it decades ago: jockocracy.

Yes, there are ex-players who are qualified for management roles, behind-the-scenes roles with teams, so on. There are a whole lot who aren't, though.

 

[Sol]

Nothing he’s done since arriving in MN suggests he has matured at all. He’s pretty much fought with everyone. Those veterans that kept mouth shut and went along with him got rewarded with player-friendly retirement contracts complete with NMCs.

Oh so you know for a fact that my boy Bill Guerin hasn’t changed but the faceless employee of 10 years is mature. Interesting how people run defense for people they don’t know.

 

[Strangle]

For all you "EVERYONE IS SO SOFF AND WOKE LOL BE A MAN" posters, you have no knowledge of what he said. For all we know it could have been death threats against his family, not saying that they are, but WE. DO. NOT. KNOW.

We know there was an investigation and he’s not being fired. That likely means it wasn’t a big deal.

Use some critical thinking here

 

[rynryn]

Bill Guerin would for sure get suspended from HF Boards in under five posts.

 

[MNRube]

Oh so you know for a fact that my boy Bill Guerin hasn’t changed but the faceless employee of 10 years is mature. Interesting how people run defense for people they don’t know.

do you know what the word “suggests” means? Or maybe instead you just really want to tell us about your close personal relationship with your boy Billy G

 

[Strangle]

Calm down Andrew Tate, I'd prefer not to work at place where I get screamed at and demeaned. It's not normal to be in that type of environment. You have a right for a safe work environment.


These are normal people at a job. Are you honestly suggesting, in all seriousness, since hockey is a contact sport all employees from owner to usher should be goons? You're incredulous.

That’s not what a safe work environment means.

People have totally bastardized what the word ‘safe’ means

 

[rynryn]

That’s not what a safe work environment means.

People have totally bastardized what the word ‘safe’ means

safe now encompasses psychological well-being whether you agree with it or not. Broken ankle is easier to prove than a broken soul but it's still harm--if you investigate the ankle and find the employee was wearing unsafe footwear they'll lose their complaint. if you yell at someone and it's not seen as particularly abusive or egregious they'll lose.

 

[Sol]

do you know what the word “suggests” means? Or maybe instead you just really want to tell us about your close personal relationship with your boy Billy G

I don’t want you to get more upset than you already are.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

We know there was an investigation and he’s not being fired. That likely means it wasn’t a big deal.

Use some critical thinking here

I can think of a number of situations where someone didn't get fired, and their actions were a big deal.

* Management suspected the allegations were true, but couldn't come up with sufficient proof to defend a termination.
* Management decided to "give them a second chance" is spite of stated company policy.
* Management decided losing the person in question was too steep a cost.
* Management got a recommendation out of the investigation and ignored it.

Hell, I can recall one where a manager facilitated an employee's sexually harassment of a subordinate, that evidence was presented to HR, evidence of the manager's attempt to silence the individual who'd been sexually harassed was presented to HR, and they still didn't fire the manager. [The employee who did the sexual harassment was fired, though - against the manager's demands. And then that manager was promoted 4 months later to an executive-level position.]

The fact that an investigation here didn't result in a firing doesn't tell anyone here anything, unless someone is privy to the details of that investigation and is willing to divulge them.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

People like this usually think it’s okay to yell at your boss, or accuse them of abuse, or call them racist, or whatever lies they want to spin to keep the job they’re incompetent at.

But a boss demanding a higher standard of performance from a subordinate is WAY OVER THE LINE!

This is where this ‘power dynamics’ ideology is screwing people’s brains up.

There is already a higher standard of behavior for leaders and a much lower standard for subordinates.

..Michael’s Art Supply might supply broad brushes, but do they sell boot polish? Just wondering where you could get all your holiday shopping done at once.

Like- bro. This is a specific situation, who knows what happened, but holy class-warfare-siding-with-the-oppressor, the f*** are you saying? Ya man, the CEO of Yum brands is held to a higher standard than the cashier. If they insult someone’s lineage and threaten to kick someone’s ass that’s still unprofessional, you act like someone in his position would never do that.. bro, you are out to lunch on that one. Plenty of very powerful people are very messed up, they’re just better at hiding it than your regular worker.

Man, I’m just gonna blame Andrew Tate or the Ottawa Senators or somethin for that one, holy shit my guy.

 

[MNRube]

I don’t want you to get more upset than you already are.

Nah I’m good. Your attempt at virtue signaling was a nice addition to my Friday night