Post-Game Talk: Big Fish

[duhmetreE]

We're unlucky and the random middle of the road goalies who play us inexplicably all become lucky and have vezina performances.

it's just bad luck bro

once we get through this bad luck we'll be producing like last year

 

[UnSandvich]

PDO tends to average out to 1.000 over the course of a year. The Rangers have the 6th worst PDO league-wide at the moment. I'm deeply sorry for remaining optimistic that this team's luck will improve, I know it must wound some of you to no end.

 

[will1066]

it's just bad luck bro

once we get through this bad luck we'll be producing like last year

We just have to get through it. Panarin just has to get through whatever injury he's got. They just have to.

 

[Boris Zubov]

PDO tends to average out to 1.000 over the course of a year. The Rangers have the 6th worst PDO league-wide at the moment. I'm deeply sorry for remaining optimistic that this team's luck will improve, I know it must wound some of you to no end.

I think there's two separate pessimistic camps here. One group is concerned about the lack of scoring, the others like myself are extremely concerned with the lack of progress from the kids, especially Laf.

 

[CLW]

I think there's two separate pessimistic camps here. One group is concerned about the lack of scoring, the others like myself are extremely concerned with the lack of progress from the kids, especially Laf.

Maybe I'm in a camp of my own, but I'm concerned that we play boring, stale, uncreative hockey which contributes to a. the lack of scoring and b. lack of development from the kids

 

[Boris Zubov]

Maybe I'm in a camp of my own, but I'm concerned that we play boring, stale, uncreative hockey which contributes to a. the lack of scoring and b. lack of development from the kids

Right, I should've said 3 separate camps...the 3rd is concerned about both.

Personally, I didn't have high expectations about this team coming into the season, I think our roster is very overrated & pillow soft. I also felt we could only compete for the playoffs if the kids became impact players. The lack of production from the kids is one thing, but the stalled development is truly the concerning part.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

we are in a playoff spot right now though

Florida, Toronto and Carolina are all having the same problem we are right now btw

Carolina often has this problem I believe

 

[CLW]

Right, I should've said 3 separate camps...the 3rd is concerned about both.

Personally, I didn't have high expectations about this team coming into the season, I think our roster is very overrated & pillow soft. I also felt we could only compete for the playoffs if the kids became impact players. The lack of production from the kids is one thing, but the stalled development is truly the concerning part.

But is it stalled development or something else (coaching)? Mika and Panarin don't exactly look like themselves either, Kreider's been odd, some good some bad. Trochek toils in his fashion but he looks like an individual doing his thing on his line. Vesey and Goodrow are simply good pro's doing their thing. Is this team going through an identity shift into Gallant hockey or are they all, kids included, slumping at the same time?

e: Note, also the D, Fox apart, have been strangely sluggish.

I should say I'm positive everyone, kids included, will pick up at some point soonish. They are too talented to keep playing as wonky as they have.

 

[Boris Zubov]

But is it stalled development or something else? Mika and Panarin don't exactly look like themselves either, Kreider's been odd, some good some bad. Trochek toils in his fashion but he looks like an individual doing his thing on his line. Vesey and Goodrow are simply good pro's doing their thing. Is this team going through an identity shift into Gallant hockey or are they all, kids included, slumping at the same time?

You may or may not be aware I was a VGK season ticket holder for the 1st 3 seasons out there. Vegas' first 2 years is the style of play Gallant wants, not the slog that is this team. We are a terrible skating team who plays just as slow, the Knights were a high energy team full of above average skaters who worked hard every shift. That team played fast & relentless. I guarantee you that is the system Gallant prefers & wants to implement here, but he's not blind, thus he understands this team can't play that style so he's had to adapt.

I'm not absolving him however, he's made some head scratching decisions & refuses to stick with combinations that seems to work & stays too long with others that aren't. Most coaches do that, which is why they all have a shelf life. However, I do think he's a bit hamstrung by a roster that on any given evening is dressing 4-6 fourth liners.

 

[CLW]

You may or may not be aware I was a VGK season ticket holder for the 1st 3 seasons out there. Vegas' first 2 years is the style of play Gallant wants, not the slog that is this team. We are a terrible skating team who plays just as slow, the Knights were a high energy team full of above average skaters who worked hard every shift. That team played fast & relentless. I guarantee you that is the system Gallant prefers & wants to implement here, but he's not blind, thus he understands this team can't play that style so he's had to adapt.

I'm not absolving him however, he's made some head scratching decisions & refuses to stick with combinations that seems to work & stays too long with others that aren't. Most coaches do that, which is why they all have a shelf life. However, I do think he's a bit hamstrung by a roster that on any given evening is dressing 4-6 fourth liners.

I am aware and I fully agree early Vegas is his ideal (that's what I meant with "Gallant hockey"), and as you say this squad is a very different breed to that - leading to what I called transition into Gallant hockey ie "identity shift" issues.

But also, a lot of those "fourth liners" are Gallant's men or there because of decisions made by Drury and Gallant. I am also curious to what his vision and program is for developing Laffy for example.

 

[Synergy27]

I think there's two separate pessimistic camps here. One group is concerned about the lack of scoring, the others like myself are extremely concerned with the lack of progress from the kids, especially Laf.

You’ve also got people like me who are just pissed that the team teased us with a couple of juggernaut performances to start the season. Where did that come from, and where did it go?

 

[CommaSynapse]

I'm just pissed they gave up that goal and Shesty lost the shutout.

I'd also prefer if this is not the way forward. It's tight hockey, sure, but they need to start finishing. 1 goal on James Reimer?

 

[egelband]

We're unlucky and the random middle of the road goalies who play us inexplicably all become lucky and have vezina performances.

I think what the Rangers refuse to acknowledge is that a good percentage of goals scored in the NHL are ugly goals. The rangers mostly refuse to shop in that aisle. So here we are.

 

[egelband]

You may or may not be aware I was a VGK season ticket holder for the 1st 3 seasons out there. Vegas' first 2 years is the style of play Gallant wants, not the slog that is this team. We are a terrible skating team who plays just as slow, the Knights were a high energy team full of above average skaters who worked hard every shift. That team played fast & relentless. I guarantee you that is the system Gallant prefers & wants to implement here, but he's not blind, thus he understands this team can't play that style so he's had to adapt.

I'm not absolving him however, he's made some head scratching decisions & refuses to stick with combinations that seems to work & stays too long with others that aren't. Most coaches do that, which is why they all have a shelf life. However, I do think he's a bit hamstrung by a roster that on any given evening is dressing 4-6 fourth liners.

I agree. I just think Gallant is having - like pretty much any coach would - a hard time getting vets like Panarin, Kreider, Mika to change their stripes.
They’ve got great talent but have become too predictable at even strength. On the other hand they’re all playing solid defense and have a potent power play. I just don’t see how this is a coaching issue.
He didn’t have those kind of guys with Vegas. I bet that team was much more coach-able.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

The same stats that said we were a bad team last year but we still made it to the conference finals? Yes, I don't follow those blindly and I like mixing them with what I see.

Last night I saw a team that was struggling horrifically, again, against a bad team. We can keep going around in circles but what I see with my eyes also matters. It isn't 20 seconds, it's been 20 games of this.

And in those 19 games this year they have points in 13 of them and are in a playoff position at the moment. It's really not the disaster you make it out to be.

 

[CLW]

I think what the Rangers refuse to acknowledge is that a good percentage of goals scored in the NHL are ugly goals. The rangers mostly refuse to shop in that aisle. So here we are.

Imo it's the opposite. The coaches want to score old style ugly goals but that has only torpedoed the offense. Look at Lehkonen coming alive offensively in Colorado after he played on offensively neutered teams in Montreal under Dino coaches (Julien and Ducharme) who insisted on scoring ugly goals Gallagher style with poor results. Lehkonen used to go to the net and dig and dig and dig with little to show for it (see Kakko). Caveman hockey.

 

[The S5]

Maybe I'm in a camp of my own, but I'm concerned that we play boring, stale, uncreative hockey which contributes to a. the lack of scoring and b. lack of development from the kids

Were you advocating for bringing in Trotz??

 

[Machinehead]

Maybe the NHL will be nice and gift us an playoff spot in April because our expected goals was actually good and we were just unlucky

Yeah but even the best time series model of data assumes that the error term is random.

If we are not finishing well as a team, that may be an issue rather than just a noisy stretch in the data

From 19-20 through 21-22, the Rangers had the 6th best shooting percentage in the NHL. Why would they turn into a bad finishing team over the summer?

We obviously have some holes but this is not a team devoid of talent like some of the recent Habs teams that put up strong analytics.

 

[Machinehead]

We're unlucky and the random middle of the road goalies who play us inexplicably all become lucky and have vezina performances.

Yes.

 

[bleedblue94]

And in those 19 games this year they have points in 13 of them and are in a playoff position at the moment. It's really not the disaster you make it out to be.

Look at the quality of the teams they have played and consider how many games they have actually won.

 

[bleedblue94]

Yeah, the stats that said we were a bad team last year, but we still made it to the conference finals. Which had nothing at all to do with our goalie posting a .935 sv% and 2.07 GAA, compared to the league average .907 & 2.92. Which is about a 45 goal swing in goal differential (putting the team to around the halfway mark of the league, instead of 2nd).

EDIT: Last season the team was 9th in the league with a +47 goal differential. 16th in Goals For. If Igor is league average. The team misses the playoffs.

This franchise has been built around better than league average goaltending for two decades.

And in the playoffs igor was not elite yet that statistically crappy team was two wins from the finals.

Analytics are a great tool but people relying on them wholly is silly. They cannot account for team will and a toughness to play against. I dont mean "toughness," I am talking about players that are hard to play against and a team that is hard to play against. The leafs are a great example of a team over the last several years that has great stats, wins, and have elite skill but they are not hard to play against. The rangers last year were hard to play against for the most part and that battled. I dont see that this year, I see a level of entitlement from a team that thinks they will win the majority of their games simply if the bus shows up to the rink on time. That is a dangerous mindset if it is accurate.

 

[bleedblue94]

We're unlucky and the random middle of the road goalies who play us inexplicably all become lucky and have vezina performances.

in all seriousness how many truly great shooters do we have on this roster? 2? and one of them wont even shoot the puck and the other is primarily an elite onetime shooter.

for the most part:
kreider has a muffin
laffy wont shoot
trocheck misses the net
kakko is really good at hitting the chest
chytil same as kakko
gauthier lol
goodrow grind player
kravtsov getting good at one timers in practice i guess

They need to battle and get geasey to score goals bc even for their E W stuff to work they need net drive to open those passing lanes but no one wants to do that anymore.

 

[Machinehead]

Getting caved in but "finding a way" to score 4 goals despite never having the puck looks like "battling."

 

[Raspewtin]

it's just bad luck bro

once we get through this bad luck we'll be producing like last year

why is this such a bad explanation lol

there's so many examples of teams with shit loads of talent just not scoring for periods at a time

 

[will1066]

in all seriousness how many truly great shooters do we have on this roster? 2? and one of them wont even shoot the puck and the other is primarily an elite onetime shooter.

for the most part:
kreider has a muffin
laffy wont shoot
trocheck misses the net
kakko is really good at hitting the chest
chytil same as kakko
gauthier lol
goodrow grind player
kravtsov getting good at one timers in practice i guess

They need to battle and get geasey to score goals bc even for their E W stuff to work they need net drive to open those passing lanes but no one wants to do that anymore.

They really do need to diversify their portfolio when it comes to offensive plays. We're watching the same plays or types of attempts over and over.

Getting caved in but "finding a way" to score 4 goals despite never having the puck looks like "battling."

I don't think anyone prefers to win this way, and when we say things in the heat of the moment in the GDTs, it's in jest.