Bettman visiting Winnipeg to meet with corporate sponsors, host a fireside chat with fans amid declining season ticket sales

[Yukon Joe]

I don’t forsee Thomson and Chipman allowing them to leave just based on the fact they have built so much around the arena and the success of those ventures revolves around having an NHL team. But I also know Thomson is the investor and Chipman the owner/operator. If things start down a losing path, investors are never happy unless money is coming in.

I’m curious long term their arena plans too. MTS centre works but people are souring to the experience. The seating is fairly uncomfortable and tight, location and parking isn’t great. So in 10-15-20 years what do they do? They would want it in that area as the area is mostly owned by TNSE.

On a side note I was offered a free ticket for a game last week. I turned it down as honestly, the overall experience doesn’t excite me. Driving downtown and parking and the cold, arena just was meh. So I watched from the comfort of my room.

So - my putting Jets in the top 10 or top 5 of relocation isn't really saying much. Once you move past the Coyotes - who do you start to put in that list? Florida? Calgary? Carolina? Winnipeg? (and fans of all those teams - don't come after me - I'm not saying any of those teams are moving)

Jets are putting all their eggs in the MTS Centre - I can't see a new building for decades in Winnipeg.

Don't you live out of town? If I had a lengthy drive just to get to Winnipeg I can see that souring me on going to a game. Personally, if offered free tickets in Edmonton, I'd tend to go - even as not a fan of either team.

 

[oldunclehue]

So - my putting Jets in the top 10 or top 5 of relocation isn't really saying much. Once you move past the Coyotes - who do you start to put in that list? Florida? Calgary? Carolina? Winnipeg? (and fans of all those teams - don't come after me - I'm not saying any of those teams are moving)

Jets are putting all their eggs in the MTS Centre - I can't see a new building for decades in Winnipeg.

Don't you live out of town? If I had a lengthy drive just to get to Winnipeg I can see that souring me on going to a game. Personally, if offered free tickets in Edmonton, I'd tend to go - even as not a fan of either team.

I was in the city at the time, but the live experience at the MTS centre isn’t enough for me to drop everything and go downtown.

Have you ever been to a jets game at the MTS centre?

 

[Yukon Joe]

I was in the city at the time, but the live experience at the MTS centre isn’t enough for me to drop everything and go downtown.

Have you ever been to a jets game at the MTS centre?

Funny story - 7-8 years ago I was in Winnipeg for Christmas. I got tickets to the game on the 26th or 27th. I was super excited because I've never been to a game at MTS Centre/CLC (I was at IG Field for the Heritage Classic, but to that time was my only 2.0 game).

I pulled some strings and got the family in to see the morning skate. That was kind of fun. It was a game against the Oilers (naturally). My oldest son, wearing an Oilers jersey, got pics taken on the Oilers Instagram. My youngest son, who was only 3 or 4, got a little freaked out when Darnell Nurse crashed into the boards right in front of him. Nurse saw this and made a funny face at him.

I took my oldest son with me to the game. We got there really early. We walked around the concourse, checking out the sights. The concourse did seem tight, but nothing crazy.

My son then proceeded to puke all over the concourse.

I got him to the bathroom, told attendants about the puke. A few minutes later I asked my son if he was feeling okay - he said "no".

So we called my dad to come pick us up. He dropped us off, and hadn't even made it back home yet. He came and picked us up around the time of puck drop. I think I heard the anthem from the front entrance.

So that's the closest I've been to a game at MTS Centre/CLC. I was mostly impressed from what I did see, but still hardly the full game experience.

 

[Digital Kid]

I believe possibly the biggest factor here is that someone offers TNSE US $1b for a franchise that 15 years ago was purchased for US$170m. That is a heck of a rate of return... A lot of money that could go towards a condominium building empire or towards a very nice retirement...

 

[Heldig]

I believe possibly the biggest factor here is that someone offers TNSE US $1b for a franchise that 15 years ago was purchased for US$170m. That is a heck of a rate of return... A lot of money that could go towards a condominium building empire or towards a very nice retirement...

Yes, and moving a team with limited upside business wise (small, maligned market) for a bright, big shiny new market will probably make the Governors happy.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I believe possibly the biggest factor here is that someone offers TNSE US $1b for a franchise that 15 years ago was purchased for US$170m. That is a heck of a rate of return... A lot of money that could go towards a condominium building empire or towards a very nice retirement...

OK - but again remember who the Jets owner is - David Thomson, Third Baron of Fleet, and Canada's richest man. He comes from old money (just look a few posts up for a more expansive description of his family's wealth). Whatever else you can say about him and his family, they're not "pump and dump" investors - much rather "buy and hold".

Thomson already has his retirement very much secured, and doesn't need to invest in condos.

I don't want to oversell the man - if he figures the Jets are going to be guaranteed money losers he's not going to dump money into them forever. But his timeline is a lot longer than you might think.

 

[Digital Kid]

OK - but again remember who the Jets owner is - David Thomson, Third Baron of Fleet, and Canada's richest man. He comes from old money (just look a few posts up for a more expansive description of his family's wealth). Whatever else you can say about him and his family, they're not "pump and dump" investors - much rather "buy and hold".

Thomson already has his retirement very much secured, and doesn't need to invest in condos.

I don't want to oversell the man - if he figures the Jets are going to be guaranteed money losers he's not going to dump money into them forever. But his timeline is a lot longer than you might think.

I know very much about Thomson, the wealthiest owner in the NHL. But he is not in the NHL for ego reasons (others are), so there is a factor at play when he says "no more".

The Canadian demographic trend is not going in any franchise's favour right now. Very few newcomers are into paying for hockey, despite everything Rogers tries to do on its TV ads. (I say this just having gone to several Flames games recently and just knowing newcomers at work.) Hockey is not their thing... maybe a bit on TV but definitely not as ST holders.

 

[kaiser matias]

So the Thomson's are by now old money (he is the Third Baron of Fleet after all), but he's not old, old money. His grandfather (Roy Thomson) who started up the family business with a radio station in northern Ontario, then expanding into newspapers. Apparently his ancestors were just tenant farmers from Scotland.

He was granted the title of Baron of Fleet in 1963 (and remember "Fleet Street" is the shorthand for British newspapers because of where so many were located).

You're free to find all of this funny, of course. As I understand it the Thomson family doesn't really insist on using their title - but neither have they renounced it.

That's more because they don't use them in Canada, as per the Nickle Resolution. Canadians haven't been granted titles of nobility since 1919 (with a brief exception in the 1930s), with few exceptions, and those who do either don't use them in Canada (the Thomsons, for example), or simply renounce their Canadian citizenship (Conrad Black being the most famous case there).

And for clarity, the Fleet in the title isn't for Fleet Street, but for a street in Edinburgh. The full title is "Baron Thomson of Fleet, of Northbridge in the City of Edinburgh".

 

[Stumbledore]

I know very much about Thomson, the wealthiest owner in the NHL. But he is not in the NHL for ego reasons (others are), so there is a factor at play when he says "no more".

The only time I was able to chat with the man he was VERY much into ego reasons for wanting a piece of the Jets. If you "know very much" about him you'll know about his deep connections to Manitoba.

 

[viper0220]

What are the chances the Winnipeg Jets are moved again?

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

What are the chances the Winnipeg Jets are moved again?

Anytime in the next few seasons? Slim/nil.

After that? I'd think attendance/STH's will pick back up and this will just be a period of struggle that lots of teams have had at some point. But if I'm wrong about that part, I think they'd be sold within the next 3 to 5 seasons.

 

[edog37]

What are the chances the Winnipeg Jets are moved again?

Why is it these Canadian markets won’t sell out? Remember the justification that any Canadian market would be largely supported was the argument used to rip existing teams from their current locales. Seems like the myth is being put to rest.

 

[viper0220]

Why is it these Canadian markets won’t sell out? Remember the justification that any Canadian market would be largely supported was the argument used to rip existing teams from their current locales. Seems like the myth is being put to rest.

When that was said, the Canadian economy was strong, everything has gone downhill economically and has affected peoples bottom line.

 

[viper0220]

Anytime in the next few seasons? Slim/nil.

After that? I'd think attendance/STH's will pick back up and this will just be a period of struggle that lots of teams have had at some point. But if I'm wrong about that part, I think they'd be sold within the next 3 to 5 seasons.

This is what I think, people will start buying tickets and I think corporate support will pick up. They will come up new pay schemes, Mark Chipman is committed.

If they go on a long playoff run, that would also help a lot.

 

[edog37]

When that was said, the Canadian economy was strong, everything has gone downhill economically and has affected peoples bottom line.

That’s an excuse, not a reason.

 

[jetsmooseice]

As odd as it might sound, I do know folks in Winnipeg. One guy I've known for 22 years now, They were all thrilled when the team moved there. But they also feel like they're being emotionally manipulated with this whole call to action from TNSE/Chipman. The idea is, they're being made to feel like they should buy Jets tickets instead of pay for actual necessities.

This, I think, is why Bettman is participating in this event.

People seem to have taken those words to mean they should buy tickets, even if the message was directed to corporations. That's a sacrifice some folks are willing to make, but simply aren't able to due to their own economic situations.

In the long run, I think the Jets will be just fine. But I do think Chipman screwed up (twice now) by making the "unsustainable" comments public. What would the general public do, sell their organs to buy tickets? The fans in a market that lost their team should not have to endure scare tactics about losing another.

This is a good take.

It is distasteful that TNSE went from taking fans more or less for granted for as long as demand exceeded supply but as soon as the balance tipped, they switched right to the implied threats. We saw it last year with the "Forever Winnipeg" campaign last year that landed with a thud, but amazingly they have doubled down on that strategy this year as evidenced by that Athletic interview.

Everyone in Winnipeg knows that the team needs to be supported at the level Bettman made clear in May of 2011. We don't need to be reminded of it. So why not create good vibes by selling the product, which has exceeded expectations this year, instead of resorting to the hard-sell tactics that might make more sense if the team was in last place?

It seems to me that TNSE might not be as good at this stuff as we gave them credit for.

 

[viper0220]

That’s an excuse, not a reason.

May it be an excuse, nobody thought, things would get this difficult. Ticket sales and corporate will pick up.

 

[GreenHornet]

Anytime in the next few seasons? Slim/nil.

After that? I'd think attendance/STH's will pick back up and this will just be a period of struggle that lots of teams have had at some point. But if I'm wrong about that part, I think they'd be sold within the next 3 to 5 seasons.

I'd say it would have to be closer to 10 years of struggling for the owners to consider either selling to an out of town buyer or relocating themselves, but we're generally on the same page. Like you, I suspect things will start looking up for them in a few years.

 

[KevFu]

We talked a bit about this in the expansion thread as it pertained to the competition of sports teams dollars in a market. Economists say you need 800,000 people "per team" in a market.

But that's flawed because X percent of the market isn't going to care about sports at all, and the people who care about ONE team are more likely to care about ALL the teams (in some order).

So you're really relying on the same X percent of the market to support the teams.


Winnipeg's got a higher percentage of people who love the Jets, but with the market being so small, they're relying on the same people every season and there's only so much each person can give.

While a market the size of Phoenix, a far less percentage of people care, but the fans who care about sports who check out a Coyotes game once a year or once every five years, is "new, extra money" and there's a massive supply of people they can try to lure to a game.

Is there anyone in Manitoba that would EVER go to a Jets game who isn't on the team's email list already?

 

[cg98]

That’s an excuse, not a reason.

Thats your excuse because you troll (badly) over it and pretend it isnt.

Id say its a perfect reason for any fan of any team anywhere not to.

Why is it these Canadian markets won’t sell out? Remember the justification that any Canadian market would be largely supported was the argument used to rip existing teams from their current locales. Seems like the myth is being put to rest.

Seems like you still love to live in a false made up reality post-2020, talking about myths and all.

 

[cg98]

What are the chances the Winnipeg Jets are moved again?

As long as we have a steady ownership who are turning profits and increasing the teams net worth, own the building and are willing to keep the team there theyre staying. That could change within the next decade but so could a whole lot of other things.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

May it be an excuse, nobody thought, things would get this difficult. Ticket sales and corporate will pick up.

Nobody could predict a pandemic but economic recession should be expected and taken in to consideration.

Seems like you still love to live in a false made up reality post-2020, talking about myths and all.

No. A lot of people WERE saying this about WInnipeg AND QC.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I'd say it would have to be closer to 10 years of struggling for the owners to consider either selling to an out of town buyer or relocating themselves, but we're generally on the same page. Like you, I suspect things will start looking up for them in a few years.

It may take a bit longer than 3-5 years, but we're already seeing ownership go public pleading for help. They do own the building and have real estate tied to the team, so they're definitely not moving anytime soon (or ever), but I can't see them waiting 10 years. I think a 5-year period is a big window with the current situation.

 

[tucker3434]

The season ticket decline is a little surprising. I think you kinda had to expect that corporate support was never going to be all that great in Winnipeg, but you would've thought a waiting list for season tickets would offset that. Unshakable fan support was suppose to be their financial buoy. Getting neither is rough.

I can understand ownership's concern. The team is winning right now. If they aren't improving financially as a result, when could you expect it to occur?

 

[edog37]

Thats your excuse because you troll (badly) over it and pretend it isnt.

Id say its a perfect reason for any fan of any team anywhere not to.

Seems like you still love to live in a false made up reality post-2020, talking about myths and all.

No it’s an excuse. Do you pardon a non-traditional market with the same grace? I bet you say..”move them, they don’t deserve a team, etc.”. That’s the hypocrisy I’m calling out.

Winnipeg fans whined for years about getting the Jets back. Well, guess what…you got them, now support them.