Bettman visiting Winnipeg to meet with corporate sponsors, host a fireside chat with fans amid declining season ticket sales

[AtlantaWhaler]

The networth of the org correlates with those numbers directly. The idea that it doesnt is just delulu. Hard to keep increasing net worth and income of a sports team if theres no positive and profitable revenues from either corporate or domestic support bases coming in to increase it. Its why TNSE and their parent property company have invested hundreds of millions into downtown Winnipeg since relocation, and almost $2bil since 2004.

Neither revenue nor net worth have seen the Jets decline into the red since theyve been here in 2011. Even with the decline in gate revenue from ticket sales and corporate support, theres no evidence to support the Jets were and are losing money (outside of events such as a pandemic and lockout) to an extent that concerns relocation or folding in a decade or so like many detractors of ours on these boards want so badly lol. Neither Chipman, or Bettman have acknowledged or sounded the alarm on such issues.

Ha...delulu. Nice. Well...you can go with your gut feeling on the revenue. I'll go with actual sources like this one:
The Jets have seen “above a 30% drop in the last three years in their season-ticket base,” along with the events in post #5.

Most teams have had dips in attendance and revenue. Jets will be fine.

 

[Boonk]

Ha...delulu. Nice. Well...you can go with your gut feeling on the revenue. I'll go with actual sources like this one:
The Jets have seen “above a 30% drop in the last three years in their season-ticket base,” along with the events in post #5.

Most teams have had dips in attendance and revenue. Jets will be fine.

That doesnt even prove that they arent pulling in revenue at a profit.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-jets-hockey-operations-profits-1.7171250

Right here, Chipman outright discloses that even with the revenue loss from decreased ticket sales they havent gone into the red. So no, its not a 'gut feeling', though I guess whether you choose to believe him or not is.

The loss of ticket purchasers at a corporate, STH, or General Admission level arent sustainable long term obviously, but the complete capitulation of the organization would require a further mass exodus of supporters which I dont see happening. Despite TNSE and the Jets faults and insufferabilities towards their customers and fans, theyve never been the worst in the league at either of those facets. They can and probably will recoup and gain support as the years go by and if their marketing strategies improve. If the Bombers of the CFL can do it after spending almost a decade in humiliation and in a financially strapped economy and league, then so can the NHL team that is still generating a profit.

So yeah. They will be fine.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Right here, Chipman outright discloses that even with the revenue loss from decreased ticket sales they havent gone into the red. So no, its not a 'gut feeling', though I guess whether you choose to believe him or not is.

The loss of ticket purchasers at a corporate, STH, or General Admission level arent sustainable long term obviously, but the complete capitulation of the organization would require a further mass exodus of supporters which I dont see happening. Despite TNSE and the Jets faults and insufferabilities towards their customers and fans, theyve never been the worst in the league at either of those facets. They can and probably will recoup and gain support as the years go by and if their marketing strategies improve. If the Bombers of the CFL can do it after spending almost a decade in humiliation and in a financially strapped economy and league, then so can the NHL team that is still generating a profit.

So yeah. They will be fine.

I believe him. He's been pretty transparent, so there's no reason not to. But again...based on public pleas and a decline in sales (I'd think the business model is based on selling out about every home game based on arena size), it does need to turn around (it will).

 

[edog37]

I know your entire schtick is basically being a contrarian shithead WRT Canadian markets, and damn any evidence otherwise, but for the have nots of Canadian markets (meaning Winnipeg, Ottawa though for how long that applies remains to be seen with new ownership) there's only so many dollars you can squeeze out of the region before you start to hit a hard ceiling in terms of profit, and the Jets have hit that point long ago. Considering how the Jets took on a large group of season ticket holders when the team came into fruition, and proceeded to ride that group of people through the honeymoon period with little benefits or care given to STH's, their feeling was that they could effectively guilt trip people into buying in without anything else added on because people were afraid of losing the Jets for a second time.

Well, now that the Jets are in a weird minus zone of being good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to make deep runs, that's coming back to bite them in the ass. That the Bombers have been consistently good before COVID, and still are even now, means that more people are willing to spend the big money towards Bombers season tickets, or even stuff like the Goldeyes or Sea Bears. For the longest time the Jets were effectively the only game in town even with the Bombers, but now? There's a larger slice of the pie with regards to sports not only in Winnipeg, but also southern Manitoba in general, winter and summer. Jets management realized too late that they need to offer more towards STH's, and more importantly, treat them better.


Considering the fact that downtown Winnipeg is the domain of corporate Manitoba Hydro and MTS employees even before COVID, there's a need to get people into the downtown core now that a lot of work is remote, and most people who come into Winnipeg are realistically going to spend it in Polo Park, St. Vital, or anywhere else on the outer ring of the city. And taking into account that there's a lot of people coming into Winnipeg from First Nation reserves and the far north for medical reasons, that part of it makes sense.

To loop it to the Jets though, I have serious doubts that this ultimately drives much towards the Jets considering the people who are apart of this specific project TNSE are wrapped up in aren't the same people who would go to Jets games. If anything, it raises serious questions as to how much of TNSE owning the downtown core of Winnipeg is enough before people start wondering aloud why.

No my “schtick” is to point out the arrogant attitude by Canadian hockey fans who give no latitude to a non-traditional market, but make every excuse under the sun for a Canadian one. That’s called hypocrisy.

And I’ve heard quite a few times on this board how ANY Canadian market would sell out at an instant regardless of size. See all the foolish suggestions like QC, Halifax, Saskatoon, etc.

So stop making excuses & fill your barn.

Tell that to tsn who had commentator ramblings on Utah getting the coyotes instead of Quebec city

Exactly.

 

[Dynamite Kid]

Quebec just sold 17,000 tickets to a Kings preseason game..........and it wasn't even the Nordiques.

 

[hockey20000]

hope winnipeg turns things around attendance wise would suck to lose them again. and I know if it continues for 2 long bettman wont hesitate to convince them to move to his next american city he wants.

 

[dj4aces]

No my “schtick” is to point out the arrogant attitude by Canadian hockey fans who give no latitude to a non-traditional market, but make every excuse under the sun for a Canadian one. That’s called hypocrisy.

And I’ve heard quite a few times on this board how ANY Canadian market would sell out at an instant regardless of size. See all the foolish suggestions like QC, Halifax, Saskatoon, etc.

So stop making excuses & fill your barn.

I remember all the people who popped up during the Atlanta years, wondering why folks weren't coming to Thrashers games, and fans in other places professing to attend all games regardless of how bad their team is, how much their owners truly sucked, or where their barn is located. Everything was an excuse when someone in Atlanta said it.

One thing the Jets have that Atlanta never did is passionate and committed ownership. Sure, Turner might have bought the franchise with that in mind, but AOLTW didn't give a damn, and it only got worse with Atlanta Spirit. Chipman actually appears to give a damn, and that's important. In this way, I think the Jets "troubles" are being overstated. Unless that changes, I think they're fine.

Quebec just sold 17,000 tickets to a Kings preseason game..........and it wasn't even the Nordiques.

Meanwhile, PKP is still looking for investors, and no one is stepping up to help him bring the Nordiques back to QC. The question then becomes, why has PKP been unable to get the investors he wants after nine years of trying? Do they have the corporate presence in the city to support a team? Can the fans fill the barn 41+ times a season, every season, at NHL prices? Don't forget, preseason games cost less than regular season, which also cost less than playoffs.

Lots of questions there, I know... but cool that the fans filled that barn!

 

[End on a Hinote]

No my “schtick” is to point out the arrogant attitude by Canadian hockey fans who give no latitude to a non-traditional market, but make every excuse under the sun for a Canadian one. That’s called hypocrisy.

And I’ve heard quite a few times on this board how ANY Canadian market would sell out at an instant regardless of size. See all the foolish suggestions like QC, Halifax, Saskatoon, etc.

So stop making excuses & fill your barn.


Exactly.

Not saying you're wrong, but it goes both ways. I've been called out as not being a "real hockey fan" because I personally don't like the fact that the number of Canadians in the NHL is dropping because apparently that means I hate seeing other countries grow and develop (which is not true). I'll admit that I don't really care if non-traditional regions start liking hockey, but that doesn't mean I don't want them too.

Some of the users who lashed out at me for this opinion I've seen literally wish ill on Canadian hockey and wish that Canadian teams would fold or move south.

Having said that, you are correct. I admit I remember my younger self, not too long before the Jets returned to Winnipeg, predicting that they would be the Green Bay Packers of the NHL and have a 30 year wait list for season tickets while selling out $300 tickets even at the worst of times, ect.

Yeah, I was wrong. I still think they are doing well at the gate despite it all, but certainly not what I expected. They say you don't know what you got until it's gone. But sometimes it's easier to forget what you have even after you're lucky enough to get it back.

 

[Bocephus86]

From reading the last few pages, it appears that that Winnipeg ownership is heavily invested in the area around the arena, and therefore I doubt they'd ever consider moving the Jets even if it is a loss leader (and that doesn't appear to be the case today, being a loss leader).

Now if the bottom totally falls out of the surrounding area and they are completely abandoning all of those investments? Of course that changes things. But in that scenario losing the team is the least of Winnipeg's worries. That'd be like worrying about your hair falling out while fighting pancreatic cancer.

It's like my father in law says about general disaster preparedness: if we're in a scenario where certain things can't be restored in about a week's time, losing the contents of your freezer is the least of your problems.