Better forward group: Tampa, Toronto or Other?

[Albus Dumbledore]

Tampa
Leafs
Winnipeg
Caps
Penguins

The healthiest team/forwards will have the best forwards, all very close all in all.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Last year it was Tampa & Pittsburgh, for sure. This season with the addition of Tavares, Toronto has the best offence in the NHL. Their strength down the middle puts them over the top(with likely two 40 goal Centres and a 30 goal one....), and then they still have potentially four 20-25 goal wingers on top of that(Brown might not get there but has before...).

 

[kelsier]

What the heck. Winnipeg isn't even in the options and yet they have this.

Jets > Bolts > Leafs / Pens

Here's some statistics from last season:

Goals For Per Game Leaders

RK	TEAM	GP	G	GA	GF/G
1	Tampa Bay	82	290	234	3.54
2	Winnipeg	82	273	216	3.33
3	Toronto	82	270	230	3.29
	Pittsburgh	82	270	248	3.29

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Jets have much younger forward score than Tamba so I expect them to exchange places likely as soon as next season. The Leafs acquired Tavarez so they might boost ahead of the Pens but with Crosby & Malkin, you just never know. I also expect the Jets still developing core of youngsters to balance whatever impact Tavarez brings on the table (and they have probably the best young core in the league), so it would seem the OP didn't really think this through.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

What makes them comparable at the moment?

Gourde out produced Marner at 5v5 and had comparable/slightly better possession numbers despite being less sheltered than Marner

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Gourde out produced Marner at 5v5 and had comparable/slightly better possession numbers despite being less sheltered than Marner

You can't really believe that. Marner is about 100x the player Gourde is.

 

[Atomos2]

Tavares is also a UFA. Point is a RFA. Again, what did Tavares get as a RFA? Why is that salary (with inflation) not the comparable?

Are you asking who you would rather have now? Or who you would rather have when Tavares was an RFA. Either way, I take Tavares but we are comparing who you would rather have right now. So it’s Tavares even as a 11mil UFA.

If Point is as good as you say, he would be getting paid regardless of UFA/RFA status. Like Matthews. Why do you keep avoiding that point?

 

[La Masse]

Gourde out produced Marner at 5v5 and had comparable/slightly better possession numbers despite being less sheltered than Marner

Marner was only sheltered because he had to play half of the year with Bozak and JVR. He was part of the shutdown line with Kadri later in the year and actually had one of the better second halfs in the league. Marner is going to have a major coming out party this year barring injury

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Marner was only sheltered because he had to play half of the year with Bozak and JVR. He was part of the shutdown line with Kadri later in the year and actually had one of the better second halfs in the league. Marner is going to have a major coming out party this year barring injury

Or his PP scoring will regress to the mean and he will just be a 60 something point mediocre defensively winger.

 

[La Masse]

Or his PP scoring will regress to the mean and he will just be a 60 something point mediocre defensively winger.

You could say the same about Gourde’s shooting percentage.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

You could say the same about Gourde’s shooting percentage.

I fully expect Gourde to be a 50-55 pt player next year but much better defensively and less reliant on the PP.

 

[La Masse]

I fully expect Gourde to be a 50-55 pt player next year but much better defensively and less reliant on the PP.

We will agree to disagree. Marner will probably increase his scoring with JT down the middle and still maintain his PP totals. Marner is not some JVR where he leaches off his teammates for points. When he’s on the ice, he’s the QB of the unit whiteout a doubt

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

My top 4:

Tampa
Winnipeg
Pittsburgh
Washington

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Hard to rank but for me the top 5 are probably TBL WPG PIT NSH and TOR.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Hard to rank but for me the top 5 are probably TBL WPG PIT NSH and TOR.

why Nashville? their defense is the best offensively in the league, but their forwards are probably around top 10 in my opinion

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Gourde out produced Marner at 5v5 and had comparable/slightly better possession numbers despite being less sheltered than Marner

So you're the type who dismisses PP numbers, and judges players exclusively on ES production?

I guess Gourde is pretty much equal to Crosby, given their ES production was almost the same.

Are you asking who you would rather have now? Or who you would rather have when Tavares was an RFA. Either way, I take Tavares but we are comparing who you would rather have right now. So it’s Tavares even as a 11mil UFA.

If Point is as good as you say, he would be getting paid regardless of UFA/RFA status. Like Matthews. Why do you keep avoiding that point?

Why do you keep on bringing up Matthews in a Point/Tavares discussion? That's why I keep "avoiding that point". Because what Matthews gets paid is irrelevant to whether or not Point is better than Tavares or should get paid like a UFA Tavares.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

why Nashville? their defense is the best offensively in the league, but their forwards are probably around top 10 in my opinion

They have 4 really damn good wingers in Forsberg Arvidsson Fiala and Smith. And their bottom-6 is rather good. Outside of top-6 centers their offense is ridiculous.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Matthews > Stamkos
Tavares =/< Kucherov
Marner > Point
Nylander > Miller
Kadri > Palat
Marleau < Johnson
Kapanen < Gourde

 

[IPS]

What the heck. Winnipeg isn't even in the options and yet they have this.

Jets > Bolts > Leafs / Pens

Here's some statistics from last season:

Goals For Per Game Leaders

RK	TEAM	GP	G	GA	GF/G
1	Tampa Bay	82	290	234	3.54
2	Winnipeg	82	273	216	3.33
3	Toronto	82	270	230	3.29
	Pittsburgh	82	270	248	3.29

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Jets have much younger forward score than Tamba so I expect them to exchange places likely as soon as next season. The Leafs acquired Tavarez so they might boost ahead of the Pens but with Crosby & Malkin, you just never know. I also expect the Jets still developing core of youngsters to balance whatever impact Tavarez brings on the table (and they have probably the best young core in the league), so it would seem the OP didn't really think this through.

So the Leafs developing core of youngsters just don't count? Is this the year where Paul Maurice and Bryan Little stop conspiring to suppress the Art-Ross winning potential of Laine? What a pathetic line of reasoning Your argument relies on zero development from Toronto's young players, but Jets youngsters to take a massive step forward to somehow negate Tavares.

 

[nuck]

Yes Winnipeg should definitely replace "other:" Next year will tell a lot. How much will Laine, Ehlers, and Connor improve? Is Stamkos a 59 assist play maker or is the 27 goals a more important thing to track? Is Gourde capable of repeating and how much growth does Point have? Will Tavares cool off if his ice time is trimmed back, or thrive because he will have a better group of wingers to play with? Will Matthews play 80 games? What will Jake Guentzel do this year? Any of these guys could have a monster season or just tread water. I can't wait to watch it unfold.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

I fully expect Gourde to be a 50-55 pt player next year but much better defensively and less reliant on the PP.

Last season, Gourde had a 105.6 evPDO, 18+ shooting percentage and a 11.8 oiSH%.
Marner: 100.4 PDO, 11.3 sh% and 8.8 oiSH%

that suggests that Gourde is more likely to get a regression next season than Marner is, despite Marner outscoring Gourde. Gourde is a great shooter and better than Marner in that regard, but is top 2 since the 2007-08 season in s%... behind Kerfoot who has 1 season played...he's likely to decline.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Last season, Gourde had a 105.6 evPDO, 18+ shooting percentage and a 11.8 oiSH%.
Marner: 100.4 PDO, 11.3 sh% and 8.8 oiSH%

that suggests that Gourde is more likely to get a regression next season than Marner is, despite Marner outscoring Gourde. Gourde is a great shooter and better than Marner in that regard, but is top 2 since the 2007-08 season in s%... behind Kerfoot who has 1 season played...he's likely to decline.

Gourde should decline in ES scoring I agree. Marner shot super high percentage on the PP and should regress there.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Also Gourde isn’t a “great shooter”, he scores a lot and shoots high percentage because he does his work at the net for the most part. Sort of like a Brendan Gallagher lite.

 

[IPS]

Gourde should decline in ES scoring I agree. Marner shot super high percentage on the PP and should regress there.

Yeah he's gonna see a big regression on his PP SH% where he scored 8 goals

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Yeah he's gonna see a big regression on his PP SH% where he scored 8 goals

OISH% genius

 

[IPS]

OISH% genius

We'll see. Marner will be running a PP that's got 2 of the best finishers in close in the league (Matthews and Tavares). He inflated the ever living f*** out of Kadri's PP goals.