Best player in the world: 2011

[norrisnick]

Question for the group at large, why is being unreliable a flaw that's acceptable to just ignore in player evaluations?

 

[wetcoast]

What sort of grade would you get on a test if you only answered half the questions? Even if the half you answered were all correct?

My bad, I thought this poll was about the best player in the world 2011.

But let's put this another way say I was the best student in the class for exactly half the school year and got stuck with mono.and didn't write a single test after scoring 100% on half the tests.

Now there is this other student who gets exactly 70% heck 80% on all the tests in the year.

When asked which is the smartest student which one would the teacher pick?

Or what sort of employee would you be, if you missed half of your scheduled days of work?

Now I'm confused us this the tests core thread or employment one?

My suggestion is try to stay on topic, straying off topic isn't working here for you.

 

[nowhereman]

Question for the group at large, why is being unreliable a flaw that's acceptable to just ignore in player evaluations?

Yeah, because if there's any word to describe Sidney Crosby – it's "unreliable".

 

[Golden_Jet]

My bad, I thought this poll was about the best player in the world 2011.

But let's put this another way say I was the best student in the class for exactly half the school year and got stuck with mono.and didn't write a single test after scoring 100% on half the tests.

Now there is this other student who gets exactly 70% heck 80% on all the tests in the year.

When asked which is the smartest student which one would the teacher pick?

Now I'm confused us this the tests core thread or employment one?

My suggestion is try to stay on topic, straying off topic isn't working here for you.

The student that got 80%, the mono guy didn’t learn half the curriculum.

 

[norrisnick]

My bad, I thought this poll was about the best player in the world 2011.

But let's put this another way say I was the best student in the class for exactly half the school year and got stuck with mono.and didn't write a single test after scoring 100% on half the tests.

Now there is this other student who gets exactly 70% heck 80% on all the tests in the year.

When asked which is the smartest student which one would the teacher pick?

Now I'm confused us this the tests core thread or employment one?

My suggestion is try to stay on topic, straying off topic isn't working here for you.

Smartest has nothing to do with best. The best student is the one that shows up to learn.

Analogies/metaphors are helpful when there seems to be a fundamental gap in understanding of what is being said. Sorry for trying to be helpful. I'll stop.

 

[wetcoast]

The fabrications are that he is generally given full credit for things he didn’t actually do, i.e. Maintain season long high PPG and have not just one, but multiple seasons where he molly-whopped his peers.

Crosby was merely fine during the first month of the 2010-2011 season. He had 6 goals and 15 points in his first 13 games. Can we stop calling it 41 games at this point? He had a hot streak after an okay start, it ended and he went pointless for two games before he was even concussed, and now we have to hear about 64 goals/132 points forever more as if it actually happened, when he never actually proved he was capable of dummying the league like that before or since.

2 things here

1) I talked about the level of play for the 41 games he did play.

2) As Regal pointed out Crosby wouldn't have needed a 132 point season to be the clear Art Ross winner

Even if somehow he were healthy and only played at a PPG level for the rest of the season he would have had the best season hands down, not that is what the OP is asking bor can anyone find such a low 41 game stretch in Crosby's career(PPG or less).

Basically the "fabrication" argument is a strawman presented by a select few who simply didn't seem to be around last pill with 72 games....and as such isn't a very convincing or grounded argument.

Now 41 games straight Nd then 22 games the next season or the 36/48in 12-13 are all different seasons and contexts.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

These threads are becoming less about discussing which players are actually better, vs how each posters defines better player vs better season and/or injuries.

Crosby vs Malkin. Crosby was the better player in 2009-2010, and in 2010-2011. He was also better in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014. So you have a 5 year run, 2 years after/2 years before where Sidney is clearly superior to Malkin. Than the one year in between - Crosby plays almost none at all only 22 games (his ppg is super high in those games).

Why would Malkin all of a sudden be better? Did Crosby just forget how to play hockey in the middle of that 5 year stretch, and remember again the next year? Or did Malkin all of a sudden become great in 2012, and revert back to being less good following 2 years?

Common sense dictates - if Sidney Crosby is better the 2 years prior and after, he's also probably better in 2011-2012. If you want to vote Malkin next poll because of his fantastic season - that's cool, I'm sure a lot will. But we're no longer looking at best player, and instead best season.

Common sense overqualifies you for HF unfortunately

 

[wetcoast]

The student that got 80%, the mono guy didn’t learn half the curriculum.

Well at least you are consistent.

But the second part is telling how do you know that the 100% student didn't learn it he just didn't write the tests.

Same thing with the hockey angle when Crosby came back he wasn't the worst player in the league or tied for it you are simply using some weird logic here.

heck even if a player scored 10 more points than Crosby did over 82 games Crosby's points doesn't mean that he meant more to his team but if you want to disagree I have 1000 yen here for 1000 Canadian dollars.

 

[Regal]

Question for the group at large, why is being unreliable a flaw that's acceptable to just ignore in player evaluations?

Two things.
1)There’s a difference between being unreliable and having some unfortunate injuries. I can see avoiding players like Forsberg, Lindros and Malkin over healthier players because they end up with so many little ailments that I don’t think you can count on them with any regularity. With Crosby, this was an unfortunate incident that was misdiagnosed and thus lingered for longer than it should. Crosby has has many relatively healthy years in his career and I don’t think his injuries over the years speak to anything about his body or game that suggests he’s likely to get hurt in any particular season if you played the season over again.
2)If you’re a contender, you should be able to overcome missed periods of time from your best players and still make the playoffs, and in the playoffs, I’d rather have the better player than the healthier player in the regular season who isn’t as good. This isn’t really something that applies to this season in particular, as Crosby did miss the playoffs, but in a general sense, missing time in the regular season is overrated. Crosby has played 95% of his team’s playoff games (180 of 190), and his team has never missed the playoffs due to Crosby missing time (they’ve only missed twice in his career, and he played 81 and 82 games in them).

 

[wetcoast]

Common sense overqualifies you for HF unfortunately

No most people get it the minority doesn't express the whole of HF boards.

Smartest has nothing to do with best. The best student is the one that shows up to learn.

Analogies/metaphors are helpful when there seems to be a fundamental gap in understanding of what is being said. Sorry for trying to be helpful. I'll stop.

Like my friend from Ottawa you are at least consistent.

The question posed to the teacher is such an easy answer as is this poll question.

Best player has nothing to do with being the healthiest.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

What sort of grade would you get on a test if you only answered half the questions? Even if the half you answered were all correct?

Or what sort of employee would you be, if you missed half of your scheduled days of work?

You a creating a misleading analogy, because you are an intellectually dishonest poster.

The correct analogy would be:
Student A gets a 96% on the the first 4 tests of the year. He misses class the last 4 tests of the year and does not take the test.

Student B averages 83% for all 8 tests.

When posed with the question of who is the best at math, you, @norrisnick choose student B. Most people would choose student A, as evidenced by this poll.

 

[wetcoast]

Yeah, because if there's any word to describe Sidney Crosby – it's "unreliable".

Talk about a loaded and leading question BTW.

Mind you some people here seem to think this is the "which star player was the healthiest in 2011".

 

[norrisnick]

Two things.
1)There’s a difference between being unreliable and having some unfortunate injuries. I can see avoiding players like Forsberg, Lindros and Malkin over healthier players because they end up with so many little ailments that I don’t think you can count on them with any regularity. With Crosby, this was an unfortunate incident that was misdiagnosed and thus lingered for longer than it should. Crosby has has many relatively healthy years in his career and I don’t think his injuries over the years speak to anything about his body or game that suggests he’s likely to get hurt in any particular season if you played the season over again.
2)If you’re a contender, you should be able to overcome missed periods of time from your best players and still make the playoffs, and in the playoffs, I’d rather have the better player than the healthier player in the regular season who isn’t as good. This isn’t really something that applies to this season in particular, as Crosby did miss the playoffs, but in a general sense, missing time in the regular season is overrated. Crosby has played 95% of his team’s playoff games (180 of 190), and his team has never missed the playoffs due to Crosby missing time (they’ve only missed twice in his career, and he played 81 and 82 games in them).

1. I'm sure Forsberg, Lindros and Malkin consider their injuries unfortunate. You're there or you're not there. The game doesn't care why you're not there.

2. So now we're wanting to ignore the regular season?

 

[norrisnick]

Best player has nothing to do with being the healthiest.

Maybe not, but it has everything to do with actually playing.

 

[Video Nasty]

2 things here

1) I talked about the level of play for the 41 games he did play.

2) As Regal pointed out Crosby wouldn't have needed a 132 point season to be the clear Art Ross winner

Even if somehow he were healthy and only played at a PPG level for the rest of the season he would have had the best season hands down, not that is what the OP is asking bor can anyone find such a low 41 game stretch in Crosby's career(PPG or less).

Basically the "fabrication" argument is a strawman presented by a select few who simply didn't seem to be around last pill with 72 games....and as such isn't a very convincing or grounded argument.

Now 41 games straight Nd then 22 games the next season or the 36/48in 12-13 are all different seasons and contexts.

The problem with projecting out for such a large number of games, literally the entire second half in this case, is that everyone acts like the league exists in a static time line and Crosby is the only one who can be affected by playing games that he actually didn’t.

The Butterly effect tells us that we can’t just assume the scoring race looks exactly the same, simply with Crosby on top with any amount of points.

 

[wetcoast]

Maybe not, but it has everything to do with actually playing.

Let's have a more simple question here then, " who was the best player in the world during their first 41 NHL games that year?"

The problem with projecting out for such a large number of games, literally the entire second half in this case, is that everyone acts like the league exists in a static time line and Crosby is the only one who can be affected by playing games that he actually didn’t.

The Butterly effect tells us that we can’t just assume the scoring race looks exactly the same, simply with Crosby on top with any amount of points.

The thing is that there is alot less evidence that Crosby doesn't win the Art Ross by a considerable margin that year if he doesn't get injured, his dominance in the first half and given his scoring rates in his career make a much stronger argument that he would have led the league in points.

But none of this matters for the actual poll question here

 

[norrisnick]

Let's have a more simple question here then, " who was the best player in the world during their first 41 NHL games that year?"

26-7-6 with a .940SV 1.97GAA and 7SO has a pretty solid claim.

 

[Golden_Jet]

26-7-6 with a .940SV 1.97GAA and 7SO has a pretty solid claim.

That was my vote as well, weird Crosby didn’t win the Hart or Ted Lindsey

 

[Voight]

I had no problem voting Ovechkin between 08 to 10, as he had the best seasons AND was also the best player, no doubt.

But 2011 belongs to Crosby, if you try to dispute otherwise, than you’re just hating at this point. You have to be insane to believe he doesn’t win the Art Ross, Lindsay and the Hart if healthy

Also, people seem to confuse « best season » with « best player ».

Going with Thomas personally. One of the better Vezina seasons of this millennium and an absolute brick wall come playoff time.

Crosby was great in the 41 games he played, but theres 0 chance I am giving my vote to a guy who didn't even play 3./4 of the year. Injuries are unfortunate but they happen.

 

[I am not exposed]

Ask the right question, and let's talk about that.

Best year? This is Tim Thomas.
Best player? Sidney Crosby.

Just be extra clear in exactly what we are discussing/ranking - instead of leaving it open ended to different interpretations - and there'd be a lot less arguments.

I hate when polls devolve into arguing semantics, vs actually comparing players.

I'm pretty sure the OP purposely did it this way to cause arguments and confusion.

Even selecting a specific year instead of the season has led to confusion.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Well isn't this just rich.

During the 21-22 season you were very adamant about how Matthews was the best player in the world.

Things change people change.

 

[Voight]

Just do 11 to 15 and save everyone time. Its Crosby every year.

Carey Price outplayed Tim Thomas in a 7 game series in 2011. I have a hard time not laughing in the face of these Thomas posts.

Laugh at this then -

 

[Mrb1p]

Laugh at this then -

Ya you make a good point for my argument. Thomas's team was great.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Things change people change.

Yeah that’s a cop out. You just have no consistency other than Penguins are the best.

 

[McPoyle]

Ya you make a good point for my argument. Thomas's team was great.

And guess who won the Smythe on that great team.

And please provide an argument for why Price was better this year.