Best player in the world: 2011

[Midnight Judges]

Durability is a player attribute. Durability is a virtue in all professional sports.

Stephen Strasburg would have been a far better player if he could have stayed healthy. But he couldn't.

 

[GreatGonzo]

These threads are becoming less about discussing which players are actually better, vs how each posters defines better player vs better season and/or injuries.

Crosby vs Malkin. Crosby was the better player in 2009-2010, and in 2010-2011. He was also better in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014. So you have a 5 year run, 2 years after/2 years before where Sidney is clearly superior to Malkin. Than the one year in between - Crosby plays almost none at all only 22 games (his ppg is super high in those games).

Why would Malkin all of a sudden be better? Did Crosby just forget how to play hockey in the middle of that 5 year stretch, and remember again the next year? Or did Malkin all of a sudden become great in 2012, and revert back to being less good following 2 years?

Common sense dictates - if Sidney Crosby is better the 2 years prior and after, he's also probably better in 2011-2012. If you want to vote Malkin next poll because of his fantastic season - that's cool, I'm sure a lot will. But we're no longer looking at best player, and instead best season.

Hard to be the best player playing just 22 games. Sure, you can use previous years to say Crosby was better but I don’t see how that is a strong argument.

WOULD HAVE Crosby been better if he had played a full season or close to it? Sure, but I don’t base arguments off of “what ifs” like you are implying. Malkin was stellar that year and did it without Crosby in the line up for the majority of the season, so that’s impressive any way you look at it.

Malkin ran away with nearly every award that year. If you want to suggest crosby was still better, that’s fine…but 22 games is hardly enough to say what he would or wouldn’t have done.

Well, Malkin WAS the best player that year, he didn’t just have the best season. He was dominant. To say he just had the better season is just ridiculous in my opinion. You can’t ignore Malkins talent, this is a guy who led the league in points already prior, and has one of the best offensive playoff runs post lock out. This isn’t just some lucky season he had.

 

[wetcoast]

Has any player in history gotten more mileage out of a 25 game hot streak than 2010-2011 Crosby?

Yes just a 25 game hot streak I wonder what the rest of his career was like.....too bad we will never know eh?

 

[Midnight Judges]

These threads are becoming less about discussing which players are actually better, vs how each posters defines better player vs better season and/or injuries.

Crosby vs Malkin. Crosby was the better player in 2009-2010, and in 2010-2011. He was also better in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014. So you have a 5 year run, 2 years after/2 years before where Sidney is clearly superior to Malkin. Than the one year in between - Crosby plays almost none at all only 22 games (his ppg is super high in those games).

Ah yes, the grace period argument - which only ever applies for Crosby but never for the hated Russian who was the clear cut best player in the world for 3 years straight.

 

[wetcoast]

Durability is a player attribute. Durability is a virtue in all professional sports.

Stephen Strasburg would have been a far better player if he could have stayed healthy. But he couldn't.

Funny that you didn't bring that up for last year when Ovechkin missed games due to his temper.

 

[nowhereman]

Sid sure does live rent free in some posters heads and it's kind of hilarious. And I also never thought I'd see Jason Pominville brought up in a debate about a top 5-10 player of all time but, well, here we are.

 

[wetcoast]

Ah yes, the grace period argument - which only ever applies for Crosby but never for the hated Russian who was the clear cut best player in the world for 3 years straight.

Rent free baby this is the 2011 poll and Crosby played at the highest level this is the best player.

It's okay you have several years to get used to it.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Funny that you didn't bring that up for last year when Ovechkin missed games due to his temper.

When did Ovechkin miss games due to his temper?

 

[GreatGonzo]

Rent free baby this is the 2011 poll and Crosby played at the highest level this is the best player.

It's okay you have several years to get used to it.

He’s not wrong in many ways though. Saying Crosby is better based on 22 games and what he did in previous seasons is very “grace period.” It’s almost as bad as how Forsberg gets treated at times.

We can’t just assume Crosby would have been dominant when he simply wasn’t. You can’t dominate if you aren’t playing and he wasn’t playing.

 

[Video Nasty]

Sid sure does live rent free in some posters heads and it's kind of hilarious. And I also never thought I'd see Jason Pominville brought up in a debate about a top 5-10 player of all time but, well, here we are.

What’s even more amusing is that the posters who point out the fabrications of his legend live rent free in your head. You mention this in almost every related post.

Yes just a 25 game hot streak I wonder what the rest of his career was like.....too bad we will never know eh?

When it’s used to project out whole seasons and try to attach an individual level of dominance over his peers that he never achieved, while being given every benefit of the doubt, yes the mileage generated is insane.

 

[McPoyle]

If by goalie season you mean goalie as better defensive team overall sure.

Overall no, Price is only beat out by Hasek. The support these two have lacked is incomparable to the all time worthy team Thomas had.

Also it was clear as day Price was the better goaltender anytime they went head to head that year. It wasnt Thomas.

Goaltending statistics are not an indicator of talent, at least not a good one.

In other words, despite what the stats and awards say. Im right and your wrong. Lazy way of thinking.

Price was rocking a .899 against Boston that year. Price came 5th in Vezina voting that year. Price had worse stats that year. Thomas was very, very cleary the better goalie that year.

 

[Midnight Judges]

We can’t just assume Crosby would have been dominant when he simply wasn’t. You can’t dominate if you aren’t playing and he wasn’t playing.

Actually Crosby proved that he couldn't sustain it - which is precisely what happened the next time Sid was able to play a full season:

1.46 PPG / .54 GPG / 1.04 primary PPG first 46 games
1.09 PPG / .32 GPG / 0.64 primary PPG in the last 34 games

 

[wetcoast]

He’s not wrong in many ways though. Saying Crosby is better based on 22 games and what he did in previous seasons is very “grace period.” It’s almost as bad as how Forsberg gets treated at times.

We can’t just assume Crosby would have been dominant when he simply wasn’t. You can’t dominate if you aren’t playing and he wasn’t playing.

The thing is that this is the 2011 thread not the 11-12 one bad what the original said was true Crosby has been in the top player in the world top 3 for a reason now his skillset and production when he plays he was downright dominant.

Also the original poster is onto something in that a guy doesn't even and flow into the best player in the world conversation the greats tend to stay there for a bit for a reason.

 

[bobholly39]

Ah yes, the grace period argument - which only ever applies for Crosby but never for the hated Russian who was the clear cut best player in the world for 3 years straight.

I voted Ovechkin in the past 3 polls. Are you saying you didn't? Surprising - who else did you vote for instead?

 

[norrisnick]

41 games you seem to be missing here.

I'm not the one missing 41 games here.

 

[wetcoast]

What’s even more amusing is that the posters who point out the fabrications of his legend live rent free in your head. You mention this in almost every related post.

What fabrications are you even speaking about?

I'm talking bout the 41 games where he dominated the league.

When it’s used to project out whole seasons and try to attach an individual level of dominance over his peers that he never achieved, while being given every benefit of the doubt, yes the mileage generated is insane.

The thing is that we are talking about level of play not who had the best season or won this or that.

The thing is that Crosby wasn't just a 41 game wonder, if one wanted to they could add 41 games at 90% of his career average or even worst 41 game stretch and he would still stand out.

But instead people are pretending that Jason Pommenville was some sort of equivalent for the 2011 season so maybe give that a thought.

 

[vancityluongo]

the crpsby arguments are boring and predictable

my battle here is that henrik >> daniel that year

 

[bobholly39]

Is having an off-year due to playing through injury worse than not playing at all due to injury? That doesn't make any sense.

Malkin's argument in 2012 would be that he had had a better single season peak and a better playoff peak than Crosby and was coming off a career year which was better than any season by Crosby so far. There were major question marks about Crosby's health and what he would be able to do in a full season.

I'm not sure I follow. Who had the one off year and played through injury that I am not considering? Do you mean Malkin?

It wasn't just one off year for Malkin, it was 4 years where Crosby was better. Twice before 2012, twice after that Crosby was better. If it had been just one year where Crosby did better instead of 4, it would be a little less significant.

 

[GreatGonzo]

The thing is that this is the 2011 thread not the 11-12 one bad what the original said was true Crosby has been in the top player in the world top 3 for a reason now his skillset and production when he plays he was downright dominant.

Also the original poster is onto something in that a guy doesn't even and flow into the best player in the world conversation the greats tend to stay there for a bit for a reason.

It’s still difficult to suggest such dominance based on “what if” scenarios. We can’t just assume what he would have done, all we have is the stats provided. Sure, would he have most likely ran away with everything in 2011? Most likely, but he didn’t…and 2012 he played even less games.

Again, I have no issue calling Crosby the best player in 2011, but 2012 is definitely a different topic.

 

[norrisnick]

What fabrications are you even speaking about?

I'm talking bout the 41 games where he dominated the league.

The thing is that we are talking about level of play not who had the best season or won this or that.

The thing is that Crosby wasn't just a 41 game wonder, if one wanted to they could add 41 games at 90% of his career average or even worst 41 game stretch and he would still stand out.

But instead people are pretending that Jason Pommenville was some sort of equivalent for the 2011 season so maybe give that a thought.

2011, 2012, and 2013 seasons. Combined.

 

[TheGuiminator]

Has any player in history gotten more mileage out of a 25 game hot streak than 2010-2011 Crosby?

Yet you still voted for him as the best player of 2011, yikes

 

[Mrb1p]

In other words, despite what the stats and awards say. Im right and your wrong. Lazy way of thinking.

Price was rocking a .899 against Boston that year. Price came 5th in Vezina voting that year. Price had worse stats that year. Thomas was very, very cleary the better goalie that year.

Do you not realize that you base your whole argumentation around stats and voting? Two things that are heavily influenced by team composition?

Of course if I based my whole argumentation around this I wouldnt have wasted my time making this post.

Trophies are voted on stats, but stats sadly dont tell a true story. Look no further than the Matthews Hart

 

[norrisnick]

Moving forward, the NHL shouldn't play any games. Just have all the talking heads get together and pick who to award the Cup and all the trophies too. The actual games just muddy the water...

 

[GreatGonzo]

I'm not sure I follow. Who had the one off year and played through injury that I am not considering? Do you mean Malkin?

It wasn't just one off year for Malkin, it was 4 years where Crosby was better. Twice before 2012, twice after that Crosby was better. If it had been just one year where Crosby did better instead of 4, it would be a little less significant.

Malkin was a Hart finalist in 2008 and 2009, finished second in points in 2008 and won the Art Ross in 2009. He also led the league in assists in 2009. Not saying he was better, but Malkins 2012 wasn’t just some fluke. He deserved to be called the best player that year.

 

[bobholly39]

Moving forward, the NHL shouldn't play any games. Just have all the talking heads get together and pick who to award the Cup and all the trophies too. The actual games just muddy the water...

Ask the right question, and let's talk about that.

Best year? This is Tim Thomas.
Best player? Sidney Crosby.

Just be extra clear in exactly what we are discussing/ranking - instead of leaving it open ended to different interpretations - and there'd be a lot less arguments.

I hate when polls devolve into arguing semantics, vs actually comparing players.