Best player in the world: 2011

[M88K]

1.61 to 1.37 ppg is a massive difference lol. And Crosby continued it for his next 2 seasons

It is literally 10p. That's not a massive difference. It's irrelevant anyway because point wasn't the difference it is that if you exclude half a season of play you don't get an accurate picture.
If you call averaging under 30 games a season maintaining it for 2 seasons, sure he did.

 

[wetcoast]

Who said anything about those words existing in this thread, bud?

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Once again you are being too cute by half here as Crosby's abilities didn't change and that why those picking Thomas are out to lunch guys aren't the best player in the world then fall off the map because of an injury.

Crosby kind of proves why he is finalist for so many seasons elite level of play and 41 games was enough to see this.

 

[norrisnick]

It is literally 10p. That's not a massive difference. It's irrelevant anyway because point wasn't the difference it is that if you exclude half a season of play you don't get an accurate picture.
If you call averaging under 30 games a season maintaining it for 2 seasons, sure he did.

You're arguing with people that whole-heartedly believe that an offense-only player that ranked 37th in scoring from the '10-'11 through '12-'13 seasons (tied with the legendary Jason Pominville) was heads and shoulders the best player in the world during that time to the point that it shouldn't even be up for a debate.

On e again you are being too cute by half here as Crosby's abilities didn't change and that why those picking Thomas are out to lunch guys aren't the best player in the world then fall off the map because of an injury.

Crosby kind of proves why he is finalist for so many seasons elite level of play and 41 games was enough to see this.

His ability to get on the ice and play hockey certainly changed. Otherwise he would have.

 

[Caser]

Yeah in 2015 its pretty clearly Price. But no, 2012 is 100% Sid. 2010 2013 is Crosbys absolute peak. To go against him in this time frame is absolutely insane.

2011/12 was one of the most dominant regular seasons I've ever seen by one player and here I don't mean Crosby's 22 games.

 

[wetcoast]

You're arguing with people that whole-heartedly believe that an offense-only player that ranked 37th in scoring from the '10-'11 through '12-'13 seasons (tied with the legendary Jason Pominville) was heads and shoulders the best player in the world during that time to the point that it shouldn't even be up for a debate.


His ability to get on the ice and play hockey certainly changed. Otherwise he would have.

The thing is that you are using the whole season metric why not the per game metric to actually gauge actual real world impact?

The thing is that we are voting in who was the best player in the world not who had the best season or won the most award s or even the SC.

If Crosby's play in a 41 game sample doesn't show you how he was the best then you can keep on being you and the rest of us will answer the actual pill question.

The Op that you linked to talked about Forsberg being injured but why he was included but sure if you think it was even close that Crosby and Pominville were in the same tier on best player for 2011 you just keep doing you and most of the rest of us will answer and reflect in the question at hand.

 

[Despote]

Just do 11 to 15 and save everyone time. Its Crosby every year.

Carey Price outplayed Tim Thomas in a 7 game series in 2011. I have a hard time not laughing in the face of these Thomas posts.

Giroux outplayed Crosby in 2012 and Bergeron just blanked him in 2013 (0 points in a 4 game sweep), I'm sure these will factor in your analysis...

 

[norrisnick]

The thing is that you are using the whole season metric why not the per game metric to actually gauge actual real world impact?

The thing is that we are voting in who was the best player in the world not who had the best season or won the most award s or even the SC.

If Crosby's play in a 41 game sample doesn't show you how he was the best then you can keep on being you and the rest of us will answer the actual pill question.

The Op that you linked to talked about Forsberg being injured but why he was included but sure if you think it was even close that Crosby and Pominville were in the same tier on best player for 2011 you just keep doing you and most of the rest of us will answer and reflect in the question at hand.

Because per game metrics literally only matter if you play games. What good is a 1.75 PPG in the pressbox?

 

[GreatGonzo]

Yeah in 2015 its pretty clearly Price. But no, 2012 is 100% Sid. 2010 2013 is Crosbys absolute peak. To go against him in this time frame is absolutely insane.

No, 2012 is 100% Malkin. And it isn’t close

 

[wetcoast]

Because per game metrics literally only matter if you play games. What good is a 1.75 PPG in the pressbox?

For some reason you want to focus on what didn't happen.

Crosby played and showed in his 41 games how great he was.

 

[norrisnick]

For some reason you want to focus on what didn't happen.

Crosby played and showed in his 41 games how great he was.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here...

 

[bobholly39]

I didn't vote for OV because he was not the best this season and I'm not going to have a problem voting Crosby from 12/13-16/17. But where is the logic in saying the best player in the world is someone who was on a 4 year run of zero MVPs (not even nominated 3/4 seasons), zero best player awards (not nominated 3/4), zero playoff MVPs, zero scoring titles and clearly was not the best player the previous 3 seasons? Has that happened in the history of sports? I know it hasn't happened in hockey, basketball or football (soccer) history so why for Crosby? It's not like his 41 game run was some once in a lifetime thing either because OV did basically the same thing a year before, Jagr did it before, McDavid has beaten it since.

I don't get your logic.

Crosby was definitely a top 2 player in the world for the stretch of 2007-2010, 4 straight years. Then in 2011 - he does even better and is peaking even higher (was already doing great in late 2010 too)....while the best player (Ovechkin) takes a major step back with an off-season.

If you're not voting Ovechkin in 2011 (and, you shouldn't), and not Crosby....who else would you vote for?

Malkin was close enough in ~2008-2010 that if he had gone off with a peak full season in 2011 you could maybe argue him, but he didn't. But he had an off year and missed half the year himself.

2011 is definitely Crosby anyway you look at it.

 

[um]

Yeah in 2015 its pretty clearly Price. But no, 2012 is 100% Sid. 2010 2013 is Crosbys absolute peak. To go against him in this time frame is absolutely insane.

You’re right that not many people went against Sid in 2012, because he played 22 games.

Malkin was easily the best player that year.

 

[norrisnick]

I don't get your logic.

Crosby was definitely a top 2 player in the world for the stretch of 2007-2010, 4 straight years. Then in 2011 - he does even better and is peaking even higher (was already doing great in late 2010 too)....while the best player (Ovechkin) takes a major step back with an off-season.

If you're not voting Ovechkin in 2011 (and, you shouldn't), and not Crosby....who else would you vote for?

Malkin was close enough in ~2008-2010 that if he had gone off with a peak full season in 2011 you could maybe argue him, but he didn't. But he had an off year and missed half the year himself.

2011 is definitely Crosby anyway you look at it.

Unless you look at any of the 30 forwards that outscored him that season. That's also ignoring any defensemen or goalies that might have a credible case for outperforming a 41 game player.

 

[bobholly39]

No, 2012 is 100% Malkin. And it isn’t close

These threads are becoming less about discussing which players are actually better, vs how each posters defines better player vs better season and/or injuries.

Crosby vs Malkin. Crosby was the better player in 2009-2010, and in 2010-2011. He was also better in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014. So you have a 5 year run, 2 years after/2 years before where Sidney is clearly superior to Malkin. Than the one year in between - Crosby plays almost none at all only 22 games (his ppg is super high in those games).

Why would Malkin all of a sudden be better? Did Crosby just forget how to play hockey in the middle of that 5 year stretch, and remember again the next year? Or did Malkin all of a sudden become great in 2012, and revert back to being less good following 2 years?

Common sense dictates - if Sidney Crosby is better the 2 years prior and after, he's also probably better in 2011-2012. If you want to vote Malkin next poll because of his fantastic season - that's cool, I'm sure a lot will. But we're no longer looking at best player, and instead best season.

 

[bobholly39]

Unless you look at any of the 30 forwards that outscored him that season. That's also ignoring any defensemen or goalies that might have a credible case for outperforming a 41 game player.

No. You're mixing best season and best player.

Whose the best player in the world today? McDavid, right? Cool, I agree. Short of him showing an unexpected huge decline, or short of someone like MacKinnon, Draisaitl or other showing a huge spike/improvement in performance this year and becoming better than McDavid - McDavid will still be the best player in the world come December. And come April 2024.

What if in a pre-season came this weekend, McDavid has a major injury and is out for 4 months. Is he all of a sudden not as good anymore? Of course not - still the best player.

If you want to start discussing who is likely to have the best season with McDavid out to injury in this hypothetical - that's a fun conversation and there are probably a few candidates.

Wouldn't change the fact that McDavid would still be the better player. He just won't have the best season.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You quoted the OP and the words quoted don't exist in this thread the onus is on you brother.


I know right, it's almost like some people are actually reading what the OP is asking and not making up criteria.

Ya he definitely should not be leading lol, it’s a joke 41 games played

 

[wetcoast]

Unless you look at any of the 30 forwards that outscored him that season. That's also ignoring any defensemen or goalies that might have a credible case for outperforming a 41 game player.

Man well over 98% of the 30 guys who scored more points were never serious the best player in the world contenders.

They certainly don't have any credible case of who was the best player in the world in 2011.

Ya he definitely should not be leading lol, it’s a joke 41 games played

So where does Crosby rank, even ballpark for best player in the world in 2011?

If you are so hung up on 41 games probably not even top 10 eh.....which would be really weird given the poll question.

 

[norrisnick]

No. You're mixing best season and best player.

Whose the best player in the world today? McDavid, right? Cool, I agree. Short of him showing an unexpected huge decline, or short of someone like MacKinnon, Draisaitl or other showing a huge spike/improvement in performance this year and becoming better than McDavid - McDavid will still be the best player in the world come December. And come April 2024.

What if in a pre-season came this weekend, McDavid has a major injury and is out for 4 months. Is he all of a sudden not as good anymore? Of course not - still the best player.

If you want to start discussing who is likely to have the best season with McDavid out to injury in this hypothetical - that's a fun conversation and there are probably a few candidates.

Wouldn't change the fact that McDavid would still be the better player. He just won't have the best season.

So it's imaginary best player and not based on anything on the ice?

Seems like a pointless popularity contest then...

 

[Beau Knows]

Seem to be a lot of very upset people that the question in theses polls isn't "who had the best season". It simply asks "who was the best player", leaving the interpretation of that up to each voter.

You could just start a series of "who had the best season" polls, if it's that important to you.

 

[Video Nasty]

Has any player in history gotten more mileage out of a 25 game hot streak than 2010-2011 Crosby?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Anyone not voting for Crosby also better never vote for Forsberg in any comparisons between Forsberg and guys who played more games/had more raw points.

 

[norrisnick]

Anyone not voting for Crosby also better never vote for Forsberg in any comparisons between Forsberg and guys who played more games/had more raw points.

I promise.

 

[bobholly39]

So it's imaginary best player and not based on anything on the ice?

Seems like a pointless popularity contest then...

That's what best player means.

If you want to talk about best season, or best overall year (including playoffs/international) - we can do that. That's often a more interresting conversation anyways. And Tim Thomas would win in 2011, and Malkin in 2012. And Crosby closes the gap significantly on Ovechkin in 2008 and 2010, and Malkin does the same in 2009. And Lemieux would not have won in 2001, nor Peter Forsberg in 2004, etc.

But this poll says best player - and in 2010-2011, it was Sidney Crosby.

 

[Despote]

These threads are becoming less about discussing which players are actually better, vs how each posters defines better player vs better season and/or injuries.

Crosby vs Malkin. Crosby was the better player in 2009-2010, and in 2010-2011. He was also better in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014. So you have a 5 year run, 2 years after/2 years before where Sidney is clearly superior to Malkin. Than the one year in between - Crosby plays almost none at all only 22 games (his ppg is super high in those games).

Why would Malkin all of a sudden be better? Did Crosby just forget how to play hockey in the middle of that 5 year stretch, and remember again the next year? Or did Malkin all of a sudden become great in 2012, and revert back to being less good following 2 years?

Common sense dictates - if Sidney Crosby is better the 2 years prior and after, he's also probably better in 2011-2012. If you want to vote Malkin next poll because of his fantastic season - that's cool, I'm sure a lot will. But we're no longer looking at best player, and instead best season.

Is having an off-year due to playing through injury worse than not playing at all due to injury? That doesn't make any sense.

Malkin's argument in 2012 would be that he had had a better single season peak and a better playoff peak than Crosby and was coming off a career year which was better than any season by Crosby so far. There were major question marks about Crosby's health and what he would be able to do in a full season.

 

[wetcoast]

So it's imaginary best player and not based on anything on the ice?

Seems like a pointless popularity contest then...

41 games you seem to be missing here.