Best player in the world: 2011

[norrisnick]

Ask the right question, and let's talk about that.

Best year? This is Tim Thomas.
Best player? Sidney Crosby.

Just be extra clear in exactly what we are discussing/ranking - instead of leaving it open ended to different interpretations - and there'd be a lot less arguments.

I hate when polls devolve into arguing semantics, vs actually comparing players.

Por que no los dos? Best player for the year? An ephemeral best player concept with no definition is meaningless.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Your not the best player of the year, when half the year you were tied for worst.

 

[wetcoast]

2011, 2012, and 2013 seasons. Combined.

So where is the fabrication here?

2011 we are talking about 41 games of absolute dominance coming off yet another season where he has a great case to be #1 so once again you are going to need to explain what's being fabricated here.

 

[bobholly39]

Malkin was a Hart finalist in 2008 and 2009, finished second in points in 2008 and won the Art Ross in 2009. He also led the league in assists in 2009. Not saying he was better, but Malkins 2012 wasn’t just some fluke. He deserved to be called the best player that year.

To the bolded....ok, are we now saying "best player" is some type of accolade? If so I agree - he deserves the accolade for 2012. If your logic is a player who doesn't play enough games (whether that threshold is 22 games, 41 games or whatever) doesn't deserve the accolade of being called best player in the world - there's some merit to that. That's why Crosby didn't win the Pearson in 2012, nor even in 2011.

But if you're asking in an absolute sense who was better between the 2 in either 2011 or 2012 - it's still Crosby. But if you don't think he deserves an accolade of some sort, be it a Pearson Trophy or a HF Poll win (as if that's worth anything) and so you want to vote for Malkin, fine. Doesn't mean Crosby wasn't still the better hockey player in that stretch of years.

Also - who ever said Malkin had a fluke year? Or that he was lucky in 2012? He was great in 2008 and 2009 you're right...but Crosby was right there with him both years. And then quite a bit better in both 2010 and 2011...and again in 2013 and 2014. It just makes sense to believe he was also better in between.

 

[hamzarocks]

People just have to realiz

Mcdavid > Crosby > Ovechkin

Crosby was with the very best players longer in the league than OV was

Mcdavid is the same for Crosby. He has better peak and prime then Crosby now and has been better since 2018

1 is the 5th best player ever with room to move up

The second is 6th (at best) to 11th (at worst) with little room to move up

The third is 10th -15th best all time and the greatest goal scorer ever with little room left to move up

3 top 15 players in the past 20 years is just absurd. Appreciate these three guys, they all lived up to the pressure and by end of their careers all 3 will be cup champs

 

[norrisnick]

So where is the fabrication here?

2011 we are talking about 41 games of absolute dominance coming off yet another season where he has a great case to be #1 so once again you are going to need to explain what's being fabricated here.

Because Pominville wasn't equivalent to Crosby for the '10-'11 season and I never claimed as such.

 

[wetcoast]

Your not the best player of the year, when half the year you were tied for worst.

This doesn't even make any sense.

So let's break it down for 41 games we can call Crosby the best player in the world then for the next 41 games where he was injured he was tied for worst?

Sure that's a convincing argument can I change my vote?

 

[bobholly39]

Your not the best player of the year, when half the year you were tied for worst.

Who was the best player in the world yesterday? It couldn't be McDavid - when he's tied for worst since he didn't play.

Who had the best day yesterday as a hockey player? No idea - look at scoring logs and pick some non-McDavid player. Who is the best player in the world yesterday? It's still McDavid.

Same for Crosby.

Best player in 2011? Crosby. Best year? Tim Thomas.

 

[Video Nasty]

Yet you still voted for him as the best player of 2011, yikes

Yeah, contrary to popular belief, I think he’s an all-time great, he was awesome during his point streak, and ultimately it was a shame that he went down (partly because it opened the gateway forever to people who think he was going to keep up his pace for an entire season).

I can think those things and also believe that people pump his tires way too much over things he didn’t actually do.

 

[wetcoast]

Because Pominville wasn't equivalent to Crosby for the '10-'11 season and I never claimed as such.

Man you're right sorry that I brought up that Crosby and him were tied in points for the year ....wait that was you......keep being you Buddy as you aren't making alot of sense here.

 

[norrisnick]

Man you're right sorry that I brought up that Crosby and him were tied in points for the year ....wait that was you......keep being you Buddy as you aren't making alot of sense here.

Debates, as well as player evaluations apparently, are much easier if you make things up as you go along.

 

[McPoyle]

Do you not realize that you base your whole argumentation around stats and voting? Two things that are heavily influenced by team composition?

Of course if I based my whole argumentation around this I wouldnt have wasted my time making this post.

Trophies are voted on stats, but stats sadly dont tell a true story. Look no further than the Matthews Hart

While your argument is based on noting apparently.

And also, trophies are not stats.

Please provide a quality argument that Price was better than Thomas in 2011. Im waiting.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Who was the best player in the world yesterday? It couldn't be McDavid - when he's tied for worst since he didn't play.

Who had the best day yesterday as a hockey player? No idea - look at scoring logs and pick some non-McDavid player. Who is the best player in the world yesterday? It's still McDavid.

Same for Crosby.

Best player in 2011? Crosby. Best year? Tim Thomas.

Lmao, smoke another one

 

[GreatGonzo]

To the bolded....ok, are we now saying "best player" is some type of accolade? If so I agree - he deserves the accolade for 2012. If your logic is a player who doesn't play enough games (whether that threshold is 22 games, 41 games or whatever) doesn't deserve the accolade of being called best player in the world - there's some merit to that. That's why Crosby didn't win the Pearson in 2012, nor even in 2011.

But if you're asking in an absolute sense who was better between the 2 in either 2011 or 2012 - it's still Crosby. But if you don't think he deserves an accolade of some sort, be it a Pearson Trophy or a HF Poll win (as if that's worth anything) and so you want to vote for Malkin, fine. Doesn't mean Crosby wasn't still the better hockey player in that stretch of years.

Also - who ever said Malkin had a fluke year? Or that he was lucky in 2012? He was great in 2008 and 2009 you're right...but Crosby was right there with him both years. And then quite a bit better in both 2010 and 2011...and again in 2013 and 2014. It just makes sense to believe he was also better in between.

And that’s called a “grace period.” Again, you’re basing this off of what he did the previous year, not that year. He played 22 games, I don’t know any other player who gets to be called the better player playing just 22 games. It’s ridiculous.

 

[Midnight Judges]

So where is the fabrication here?

2011 we are talking about 41 games of absolute dominance coming off yet another season where he has a great case to be #1...

No he didn't.

 

[wetcoast]

View attachment 749597

Debates, as well as player evaluations apparently, are much easier if you make things up as you go along.

We are talking about this season 2010-11 it's not my job to make sure that you keep up and you are the guy that brought up the other player it's just a bad look and and even worse debating point.

I mean I have zero idea why you brought him up.

I'm also not making anything up voted for Crosby based on how dominate he actually was plain and simple.

 

[Mrb1p]

While your argument is based on noting apparently.

And also, trophies are not stats.

Please provide a quality argument that Price was better than Thomas in 2011. Im waiting.

I have none because you already elevated statistical evidence above anything else, thus making any other evaluation less valuable.

 

[wetcoast]

No he didn't.

Look you might not be able to make an argument due to bias but a knowledge go key fan should be avle to make a reasonable argument for either Crosby or Ovechkin in 09-10.

Even at worst Crosby has 5 straight years here as a finalist, that's staying power.

 

[McPoyle]

I have none because you already elevated statistical evidence above anything else, thus making any other evaluation less valuable.

No need to attack my arguments. Just leave it at the bolded. You have no quality argument for Price being better than Thomas in 2011. Thanks.

 

[norrisnick]

We are talking about this season 2010-11 it's not my job to make sure that you keep up and you are the guy that brought up the other player it's just a bad look and and even worse debating point.

I mean I have zero idea why you brought him up.

I'm also not making anything up voted for Crosby based on how dominate he actually was plain and simple.

Reading the posts leading up to a post you want to respond to helps in that regard.

 

[wetcoast]

Reading the posts leading up to a post you want to respond to helps in that regard.

You brought him up maybe you can explain why, it's not my job to try and decifer what you are thinking.

Here is a hint try to keep it simple and not get all cute about it.

Bottom line is that 41 games in the season we are talking about to Crosby made a convincing argument that he was the best player in the world.

This notion for the other 41 games that by simply playing all other players were better is just gob smacking illogical.

 

[nowhereman]

https://thehockeynews.com/news/thns-top-50-nhlers-as-voted-by-the-players-2011-12

The Hockey News polled 5 players from each team on who they thought were the best players in the league. A little bit of context on who NHLers felt was the best at the time.

https://www.si.com/nhl/2011/01/31/plenty-to-chew-on-in-nhlpas-players-poll

The NHLPA players poll voted him "the smartest player, toughest forward to play against, toughest player overall to face, best role model, and -- overwhelmingly -- the top player with which to start a franchise."

 

[norrisnick]

You brought him up maybe you can explain why, it's not my job to try and decifer what you are thinking.

Here is a hint try to keep it simple and not get all cute about it.

Bottom line is that 41 games in the season we are talking bout Crosby made a convincing argument that he was the best player in the world.

This notion for the other 41 games that by simply playing all other players were better is just gob smacking illogical.

What sort of grade would you get on a test if you only answered half the questions? Even if the half you answered were all correct?

Or what sort of employee would you be, if you missed half of your scheduled days of work?

 

[Golden_Jet]

This notion for the other 41 games that by simply playing all other players were better is just gob smacking logical

Fixed it for you.

 

[Video Nasty]

What fabrications are you even speaking about?

I'm talking bout the 41 games where he dominated the league.

The thing is that we are talking about level of play not who had the best season or won this or that.

The thing is that Crosby wasn't just a 41 game wonder, if one wanted to they could add 41 games at 90% of his career average or even worst 41 game stretch and he would still stand out.

But instead people are pretending that Jason Pommenville was some sort of equivalent for the 2011 season so maybe give that a thought.

The fabrications are that he is generally given full credit for things he didn’t actually do, i.e. Maintain season long high PPG and have not just one, but multiple seasons where he molly-whopped his peers.

Crosby was merely fine during the first month of the 2010-2011 season. He had 6 goals and 15 points in his first 13 games. Can we stop calling it 41 games at this point? He had a hot streak after an okay start, it ended and he went pointless for two games before he was even concussed, and now we have to hear about 64 goals/132 points forever more as if it actually happened, when he never actually proved he was capable of dummying the league like that before or since.