Value of: Best Goalie Available - EDM

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Those are big ifs, and at least what? 14-15 million in cap space? Not realistic.

Oilers don't even have that much unless they move out some expensive pieces. Capfriendly has them at $7,000,000 with 10 players to sign. Other teams would easily outspend for Lindholm and Edmonton doesn't have it.

 

[McSuper]

I didn't say that in my post, I said a 4th this yr for Oil for a 3rd next yr to NY to balance it out.

And to be clear, I am famously for saying a player's pick is guided by draft standing until said player demonstrates a more accurate basis which updates otherwise. In the case of Krav, he has NOT gotten fair shot which I consider legit meaningful mins with top 6, pref 1st line, which is necessary to determine if he can play 1st line caliber F. He was obv not given that and railroaded by the stupidity of Drury, who I am calling out. Even IF you overlook other aspects which I am not conceding, it is unforgiveable this guy was hung out to dry while McKegg made the team,

Pulj has had sufficient not mere opportunity but actual playing time with Oil Fs including I believe top Fs. So that is the first huge dif.

And I am going by the above, but even if we went in alternate direction, Strome was what, 5OA when drafted? So while this actually is rfa for rfa and expiring for expiring, examining it from where you (not I) are coming would ask what is the dif betw. 5OA Strome and similarly drafted Pulj. I would argue Geo w/rfa is already worth way more than the putrid that is Kosk.

And since this prop0sal by me, Pulj just reported out for at least 4 wks, which is most of the rest of the season.
NY can handle that and use him only for p'o if that be the case, while having Strome now would be better than Pulj not on the bench actively available.

You aren't getting Puljujarvi or Broberg for a bunch of crap . You can post your 2 pages trying to justify it all you want , it's not happening . Geo for a 2nd with cap going back is the one deal I can see happening .

 

[bernmeister]

You aren't getting Puljujarvi or Broberg for a bunch of crap . You can post your 2 pages trying to justify it all you want , it's not happening . Geo for a 2nd with cap going back is the one deal I can see happening .

You want to keep Pulhj fine, but a 2nd is not enuf if we are taking back Kosk.

Like I said, a la carte pricing
Geo no retaining
add if retention
add if we are taking cap back
add if 2nd is not this year and we have to wait for it

also while obv dozens of clubs are not demanding him, there is another suitor who has emerged, Vegas -- a WC competitor. This has been reported they want some net depth just in case and specifically asked about Geo. Not much, but it is small additional competitive bid which should prompt you to consider upping your offer.

 

[OilynutEsquire]

Koskinen/Smith/Skinner

I guarantee oil arent trading for a goalie

 

[TFHockey]

You've like $7,000,000 to sign 10 players, Where do you think you're coming up with the money to sign Hampus Lindholm? Any team out there could easily outbid Edmonton for his services especially Detroit who could offer him extra AAV because they're so flushed with cap space.

There are some contracts and players that have to get moved. No question.

Does Keith retire? Do they move Kassian? Trade Yamamoto? Trade Barrie? Lots of question marks for sure. I don't have a crystal ball, I just know the Oilers need an upgrade in net and on defense.

 

[TFHockey]

Hes a great goaltender. What would the cost be from Edmonton?

2022 1st rounder, Holloway and Samorukov get it done?

That is a lot, probably more than any goaltender has gone for in the modern cap era of the NHL. Look at what Kuemper went for. Use that as a realistic base.

Also, money in usually has to equal money out for the Oilers.

 

[McDoused]

That is a lot, probably more than any goaltender has gone for in the modern cap era of the NHL. Look at what Kuemper went for. Use that as a realistic base.

Also, money in usually has to equal money out for the Oilers.

Kuemper got a 1st and Timmins for just 1 year. So I dont see the value being that far off.

Our 1st holds a little more value. Timmins and Samorukov are probably a wash. Getting that extra year and half from Gibson would be huge. Losing Holloway would suck but hes not on the roster yet and Gibson would be a huge upgrade. You gotta give up something to get something and Anaheim likely doesnt want him dealt within the division.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

Absolutely, but a lot of teams are stuck against the cap, and have bad contracts. A team in need, at the deadline, would trade a expensive contract, for another.

I believe in the cap world, strategic move on the money side, take presidency on the equal value, of the player. In other words, if its the best trade, to keep us under the cap, we need to do it.

Can you give some examples of what contenders might be interested in Barrie? You deal in a lot of hypotheticals but like Mal said, contenders don’t have the space, most don’t have the need, and don’t want the term. We saw last offseason that there was not much interest in Barrie at his asking price and his play this season hasn’t helped his value.

 

[Mr Positive]

Kuemper got a 1st and Timmins for just 1 year. So I dont see the value being that far off.

Our 1st holds a little more value. Timmins and Samorukov are probably a wash. Getting that extra year and half from Gibson would be huge. Losing Holloway would suck but hes not on the roster yet and Gibson would be a huge upgrade. You gotta give up something to get something and Anaheim likely doesnt want him dealt within the division.

I agree that our 1st would be available for a goalie, but Gibson isnt available. Anaheim will try to win starting next season. They wouldnt trade him in the same conference anyway, much less the same division

 

[oilexport]

Can you give some examples of what contenders might be interested in Barrie? You deal in a lot of hypotheticals but like Mal said, contenders don’t have the space, most don’t have the need, and don’t want the term. We saw last offseason that there was not much interest in Barrie at his asking price and his play this season hasn’t helped his value.

An example of teams, would be any of them, that sustain an injury to their powerplay quarterback. This can happen at any moment, from now until the deadline.

If supply is short, for this position, the demand will dictate that a team may have to bite, on the 2 extra years of contract. Nothing saying we can't retain a million.

If no takers, we will keep him. It's a possible scenario.

Perhaps we just get a later pick, instead of a goalie. Maybe we flip that pick for an overpaid, redundant starter somewhere..

 

[Kaners PPGs]

An example of teams, would be any of them, that sustain an injury to their powerplay quarterback. This can happen at any moment, from now until the deadline.

If supply is short, for this position, the demand will dictate that a team may have to bite, on the 2 extra years of contract. Nothing saying we can't retain a million.

If no takers, we will keep him. It's a possible scenario.

Perhaps we just get a later pick, instead of a goalie. Maybe we flip that pick for an overpaid, redundant starter somewhere..

The reason I don't think this scenario is likely is because of the term. It would be a helluva lot cheaper to get Nick Leddy on his expiring deal and not have to deal with the next 2 seasons of Barrie's deal at 4.5 M if a contender's PPQB1 went down. And isn't a soft, 3rd pairing/PPQB one of the easiest things to find? Especially with what we have seen from Barrie this season, the value is not there to take on Barrie's cap hit over getting some lower-end PPQB replacement especially when you consider that the number of PPs decrease in the playoffs. I think the Oilers would be better off figuring out how to get back last season's Barrie than trying to trade him. And Oiler fans would definitely be wise to stop spending energy in hypothetical Barrie trades since it is unlikely they're going to trade him at the deadline unless they add sweetners or retain.

 

[TFHockey]

The reason I don't think this scenario is likely is because of the term. It would be a helluva lot cheaper to get Nick Leddy on his expiring deal and not have to deal with the next 2 seasons of Barrie's deal at 4.5 M if a contender's PPQB1 went down. And isn't a soft, 3rd pairing/PPQB one of the easiest things to find? Especially with what we have seen from Barrie this season, the value is not there to take on Barrie's cap hit over getting some lower-end PPQB replacement especially when you consider that the number of PPs decrease in the playoffs. I think the Oilers would be better off figuring out how to get back last season's Barrie than trying to trade him. And Oiler fans would definitely be wise to stop spending energy in hypothetical Barrie trades since it is unlikely they're going to trade him at the deadline unless they add sweetners or retain.

Simply not true. No reason to add anything to trade Barrie or retain on such a short and reasonable contract. Complete bunk.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Andrew Hammond didn't get the memo about us tanking, and should be traded for that unforgivable mistake.

A 3rd is enough, and he's probably better than Koskinen anyway.

Habs should target a one-legged goaltender, also blind preferably

#DoItRightForWright

 

[Kaners PPGs]

Simply not true. No reason to add anything to trade Barrie or retain on such a short and reasonable contract. Complete bunk.

4.5 M for 2 more years for a 3rd pairing dman whose is not playing well is not a reasonable contract. We saw what his value was in free agency last summer. Do you think his value has increased?

 

[TFHockey]

4.5 M for 2 more years for a 3rd pairing dman whose is not playing well is not a reasonable contract. We saw what his value was in free agency last summer. Do you think his value has increased?

I see a lot of posts on this website parroting other posts without a lot of thought behind them. So let's just take this objectively.

Barrie led all defensemen in points just a year ago.
Barrie is a right hand defenseman.
Barrie is 30 years old. He is signed for 2.5 years at $4.5 Million AAV.
Barrie isn't a problem player. He hasn't done all of the usual things players do that lowers their value. Locker room cancer, hasn't asked for a trade, etc.

Some people claim that while he was a UFA had had little value. The implication is that he had few offers, and of these the numbers were poor. Edmonton overpaid for Barrie and as a result he is a cap dump with negative value. This further implies (and some outright claim) the Oilers would have to retain or add a sweetener to deal Barrie.

All of these claim and implications fly in the face of reality. As in what has ACTUALLY happened in the NHL. Not on a website. Not in theoretical trades made by fans. Facts.

1. A real world trade made just last year by comparable players: Rasmus Ristolainen traded for a 2021 1st round pick (14th OA), Robert Hagg, and a 2nd round pick in 2023.

Risto's numbers before the trade:

Two years left at $5.4 Million AAV.

2017-18	Buffalo Sabres	NHL		73	6	35	41	-25
2018-19	Buffalo Sabres	NHL		78	5	38	43	-41
2019-20	Buffalo Sabres	NHL		69	6	27	33	-2
2020-21	Buffalo Sabres	NHL		49	4	14	18	-18

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Barrie's numbers :

2017-18	Colorado Avalanche	NHL		68	14	43	57	-15	22	|	PLAYOFFS	6	0	4	4	-3	2
2018-19	Colorado Avalanche	NHL		78	14	45	59	-3	36	|	PLAYOFFS	12	1	7	8	1	4
2019-20	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL		70	5	34	39	-7	16	|	PLAYOFFS	5	0	0	0	-2	2
2020-21	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		56	8	40	48	4	10	|	PLAYOFFS	4	0	1	1	1	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Sportsnet article, July 28th 2021:

The power-play quarterback reportedly turned down a $6-million offer elsewhere so he could feed pucks to Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl, rebound his stock, and rediscover his confidence.
“For me, it was a no-brainer, with everything that’s going on and coming off the year that I had, to be able to have a chance to go into Edmonton and play with this team on a one-year deal,” Barrie said of the gambit. “It just wasn’t about money this year, just coming into re-establish myself and show the league that I’m still a pretty good player.”
Mission accomplished. - Luke Fox

Yet somehow in spite of all of this in the logic of minds of fans who can't even be bothered to look up boxed score stats (let alone actually watch the player play the game) Barrie is worthless in the NHL.

 

[Petes2424]

What Holland is doing in Edmonton today is almost exactly what he did in Detroit from 2005-2010. Just keeps hoping he gets a run put together from a goaltender way past his prime.

He was lucky in Detroit in 2008 when Osgood came out of nowhere to have a great playoff.

Unfortunately he sees this as a good thing. I mean how can you argue with a cup in that stretch?

Well, tell that to Lidstrom, Zetterberg and Datsyuk who wasted 4 years of their career because the manager kept signing Osgood and Hasek to $750k - $900k deals. His excuse was he was waiting for Jimmy Howard?? For 5 years??

When I heard him mention Skinner recently, I had the flashback. For whatever reason this manager is scared to make goaltender moves.
Maybe it’s because when he was forced to in 2002, Hasek retired (the first time) right after his first year and Cup win. Then he signed Joseph and Hasek came back. Giving Detroit $16 million at goaltender and a huge mess.

Who knows how his wee mind justifies it. Fact is, Katz needs to go back and look at what his history says. Then tell him to make a move before next season, or go back to scouting Western Canada for Detroit.

someone needs to push the envelope here. It won’t be Holland.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

I see a lot of posts on this website parroting other posts without a lot of thought behind them. So let's just take this objectively.

Barrie led all defensemen in points just a year ago.
Barrie is a right hand defenseman.
Barrie is 30 years old. He is signed for 2.5 years at $4.5 Million AAV.
Barrie isn't a problem player. He hasn't done all of the usual things players do that lowers their value. Locker room cancer, hasn't asked for a trade, etc.

Some people claim that while he was a UFA had had little value. The implication is that he had few offers, and of these the numbers were poor. Edmonton overpaid for Barrie and as a result he is a cap dump with negative value. This further implies (and some outright claim) the Oilers would have to retain or add a sweetener to deal Barrie.

All of these claim and implications fly in the face of reality. As in what has ACTUALLY happened in the NHL. Not on a website. Not in theoretical trades made by fans. Facts.

1. A real world trade made just last year by comparable players: Rasmus Ristolainen traded for a 2021 1st round pick (14th OA), Robert Hagg, and a 2nd round pick in 2023.

Risto's numbers before the trade:

Two years left at $5.4 Million AAV.

2017-18	Buffalo Sabres	NHL		73	6	35	41	-25
2018-19	Buffalo Sabres	NHL		78	5	38	43	-41
2019-20	Buffalo Sabres	NHL		69	6	27	33	-2
2020-21	Buffalo Sabres	NHL		49	4	14	18	-18

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Barrie's numbers :

2017-18	Colorado Avalanche	NHL		68	14	43	57	-15	22	|	PLAYOFFS	6	0	4	4	-3	2
2018-19	Colorado Avalanche	NHL		78	14	45	59	-3	36	|	PLAYOFFS	12	1	7	8	1	4
2019-20	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL		70	5	34	39	-7	16	|	PLAYOFFS	5	0	0	0	-2	2
2020-21	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		56	8	40	48	4	10	|	PLAYOFFS	4	0	1	1	1	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Sportsnet article, July 28th 2021:




Yet somehow in spite of all of this in the logic of minds of fans who can't even be bothered to look up boxed score stats (let alone actually watch the player play the game) Barrie is worthless in the NHL.

In terms of points, last season he scored nearly half of his points on the PP. We all know he is good on the PP but I suspect McDavid and Draisaitl are the ones that made that PP work. At this trade deadline, rebuilding teams are not going to want Barrie and Cup-contending teams have a PPQB1 and most have a competent PPQB2. Where is the market for Barrie at his cap hit? This is why I feel that a sweetner or retention will be necessary if Edmonton wants to move him. Maybe if a team like Carolina or Washington loses their PPQB1 there would be a market but otherwise contending teams will not be interested. And we know contending teams want to build up their grit and truculence on the blue line for the playoffs NOT a PPQB that needs to be sheltered. There are less PPs in the playoffs reducing Barrie's biggest strength.

Lastly, comparing Barrie to Risto is not an apples to apples comparison. GMs fall over themselves for the size and the physicality that Risto brings. But overall, I like Barrie. I drafted him as a prospect in a fantasy team back when Stefan Elliott was going to be the next great dman. I've been following him ever since. But I am not blinded by rooting for a team to see what Barrie's value it.

And let me add- that quote doesn't support your argument at all. That quote referred to the 1-year deal he signed to rebuild his value and after leading the league in dman points he could only get 4.5 M for 3 years WITHOUT a NMC? If he is signing for less than market value to stay in Edmonton, which I highly doubt, why wouldn't he get the NMC? No, his signing last offseason speaks to how he is perceived around the league and he has not improved his value with his play this season.

 

[TFHockey]

In terms of points, last season he scored nearly half of his points on the PP. We all know he is good on the PP but I suspect McDavid and Draisaitl are the ones that made that PP work. At this trade deadline, rebuilding teams are not going to want Barrie and Cup-contending teams have a PPQB1 and most have a competent PPQB2. Where is the market for Barrie at his cap hit? This is why I feel that a sweetner or retention will be necessary if Edmonton wants to move him. Maybe if a team like Carolina or Washington loses their PPQB1 there would be a market but otherwise contending teams will not be interested. And we know contending teams want to build up their grit and truculence on the blue line for the playoffs NOT a PPQB that needs to be sheltered. There are less PPs in the playoffs reducing Barrie's biggest strength.

Lastly, comparing Barrie to Risto is not an apples to apples comparison. GMs fall over themselves for the size and the physicality that Risto brings. But overall, I like Barrie. I drafted him as a prospect in a fantasy team back when Stefan Elliott was going to be the next great dman. I've been following him ever since. But I am not blinded by rooting for a team to see what Barrie's value it.

And let me add- that quote doesn't support your argument at all. That quote referred to the 1-year deal he signed to rebuild his value and after leading the league in dman points he could only get 4.5 M for 3 years WITHOUT a NMC? If he is signing for less than market value to stay in Edmonton, which I highly doubt, why wouldn't he get the NMC? No, his signing last offseason speaks to how he is perceived around the league and he has not improved his value with his play this season.

I've always found these lines of reasoning to be disingenuous. Barrie scored a ton of points on the powerplay (and also 5v5) but it was Draisaitl and McDavid that made it happen. That is a terrible take. As if anyone who plays on the first unit powerplay doesn't contribute unless it's the stars. Ovi scores a ton from a particular spot on the PP. Does that mean the guy who got him the puck at the right time and place didn't contribute? Hardly.

Also, Risto's size and physicality as you put it paled in comparison with his terrible defensive play. He was brutal. Also, he had fewer points that Barrie every year and somehow Barrie is worthless and Risto isn't? I am not "blinded" by his faults. I didn't say he'd land the same assets as Risto. In fact in previous threads I went out of my way to point out this TDL will have lower returns that last years because of a number of factors. C'mon man. Geeez.

I think we'll see the reality of the situation, whether at the trade deadline or in the next off season. I'm betting you're wrong.

 

[DarthProbert]

Kuemper got a 1st and Timmins for just 1 year. So I dont see the value being that far off.

Our 1st holds a little more value. Timmins and Samorukov are probably a wash. Getting that extra year and half from Gibson would be huge. Losing Holloway would suck but hes not on the roster yet and Gibson would be a huge upgrade. You gotta give up something to get something and Anaheim likely doesnt want him dealt within the division.

Kuemper was an overpay cause Sakic got backed into a corner and was desperate. Unfortunately for Edmonton, Holland saw that strategy and said, "me too!"

As far as Gibson being in-division, involve a 3rd team. Worked for moving Hoffman and Jones and teams seem to be able to involve 3rd teams just fine when there's cap circumvention involved.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

I've always found these lines of reasoning to be disingenuous. Barrie scored a ton of points on the powerplay (and also 5v5) but it was Draisaitl and McDavid that made it happen. That is a terrible take. As if anyone who plays on the first unit powerplay doesn't contribute unless it's the stars. Ovi scores a ton from a particular spot on the PP. Does that mean the guy who got him the puck at the right time and place didn't contribute? Hardly.

Also, Risto's size and physicality as you put it paled in comparison with his terrible defensive play. He was brutal. Also, he had fewer points that Barrie every year and somehow Barrie is worthless and Risto isn't? I am not "blinded" by his faults. I didn't say he'd land the same assets as Risto. In fact in previous threads I went out of my way to point out this TDL will have lower returns that last years because of a number of factors. C'mon man. Geeez.

I think we'll see the reality of the situation, whether at the trade deadline or in the next off season. I'm betting you're wrong.

You really cherry pick your points without looking at context. You want to point out that Barrie had the most dman points in the league but don't want to entertain the thought that nearly half of those points were on a PP with 2 of the best players in the league thus negating some of their importance. You want to compare Barrie's points with Ristolainen without taking into consideration Risto's physicality which is heavily valued by some teams.

 

[TFHockey]

You really cherry pick your points without looking at context. You want to point out that Barrie had the most dman points in the league but don't want to entertain the thought that nearly half of those points were on a PP with 2 of the best players in the league thus negating some of their importance. You want to compare Barrie's points with Ristolainen without taking into consideration Risto's physicality which is heavily valued by some teams.

Let's put a pin in this chat and see what happens. We'll know soon enough.

Kuemper was an overpay cause Sakic got backed into a corner and was desperate. Unfortunately for Edmonton, Holland saw that strategy and said, "me too!"

As far as Gibson being in-division, involve a 3rd team. Worked for moving Hoffman and Jones and teams seem to be able to involve 3rd teams just fine when there's cap circumvention involved.

That happens every year it seems.

What would you say are the top tier goaltenders that Holland can go after? What are in the next tier?

 

[ManofSteel55]

The reason I don't think this scenario is likely is because of the term. It would be a helluva lot cheaper to get Nick Leddy on his expiring deal and not have to deal with the next 2 seasons of Barrie's deal at 4.5 M if a contender's PPQB1 went down. And isn't a soft, 3rd pairing/PPQB one of the easiest things to find? Especially with what we have seen from Barrie this season, the value is not there to take on Barrie's cap hit over getting some lower-end PPQB replacement especially when you consider that the number of PPs decrease in the playoffs. I think the Oilers would be better off figuring out how to get back last season's Barrie than trying to trade him. And Oiler fans would definitely be wise to stop spending energy in hypothetical Barrie trades since it is unlikely they're going to trade him at the deadline unless they add sweetners or retain.

Right D of any type aren't easy to find.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

Let's put a pin in this chat and see what happens. We'll know soon enough.

I doubt we will know at all. You think Edmonton is trading Barrie at the deadline? I think they'll find there isn't a market for him and they'll just keep him rather than entice someone to take him. Sure, in the summer it will be much easier to move him. I doubt they'll have to add anything to move him this summer but they sure won't get much of a return. But many teams right now are in a dollar-in, dollar-out cap situation and the teams with space are not looking to add a 4.5 M contract since they are either out of the playoff race or not a realistic contender.

 

[TFHockey]

Hammond just went for futures. He isn't exactly a starter so he doesn't fit the criteria of the goalie the Oilers need.

Would Seattle's Driedger be an upgrade on Koskinen?

 

[Bouboumaster]

Hammond just went for futures. He isn't exactly a starter so he doesn't fit the criteria of the goalie the Oilers need.

Would Seattle's Driedger be an upgrade on Koskinen?

We also have Montembault who is having a really nice stretch right now, and you could have him for cheap.

The best option tho, is the one that you don't want to hear about, but hey, if the Oilers wants to maximize their shot at a Cup, Price is pretty much your best option, outside if Vasi (and he's pretty much untouchable).
No other goalie can put a team on his back like him.
For ya'll shitting on his regular season numbers; you're looking yet again at what a Price-less Habs looks like.
Price take that team and put them single handly in the playoffs conversation.