Proposal: Bertuzzi & Hronek for Cirelli & Sergachev

[nbwingsfan]

Is it an unwritten law that every other team fan base loves Sergachev and Cirelli, yet offer 50 cents on the dollar to acquire?

BTW it is comedy that they are signed through 2023 and the cap issues for these players doesn't happen for another year.

TBL may lose Palat in free agency. They may trade Killorn who is ufa in 2023. They will not trade Serge or Cirelli for 50 cents on the dollar.

They’re getting a better forward but a worse D. You can say it may not be what they need, but how is this 50 cents on the dollar

 

[Flyer lurker]

They’re getting a better forward but a worse D. You can say it may not be what they need, but how is this 50 cents on the dollar

Cirelli > bert especially when u consider ufa vs rfa status
SERG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hronek
shave and a hair cut
2 bit trade.

 

[Flyer lurker]

In review for red wings fans
Bert ufa 2023
Cirelli RFA 2023
With what Cirelli brings and the contract situation Bertuzzi is emphatically NOT better than Cirelli.
50 cents!

 

[nbwingsfan]

Cirelli > bert especially when u consider ufa vs rfa status
SERG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hronek
shave and a hair cut
2 bit trade.

What exactly shows Bert being worse than Cirelli this season? Please do share

 

[Flyer lurker]

What exactly shows Bert being worse than Cirelli this season? Please do share

What gm would rather have 1.5 years of control of Bertuzzi over 2.5 years of Cirelli.

Please do reply.

 

[Flyer lurker]

The problem with the boards is they look at the stats on a topps card and not on the ice. With the exception of Bergeron, Cirelli is best shutdown c in the league. TBL 2nd line not only shuts down the other team's first line BUT OUTPERFORMS THEM! And the beauty of TBL is they don't need Cirelli on pp1 because their first line is that sick good. So Cirelli can focus on pk/shutdown duty and oh by the way put up a 50-60 points a year pace. The 2nd best shutdown c in the league is more valuable than a excellent pf in the playoffs. See the sparkle on Cirelli's 2 rings if you don't believe me. TBL can survive without Stamkos in playoffs. I don't think they survive without Point or Cirelli because of their 2 way play. I am not saying Cirelli is better than Stamkos. But I sure am saying he is more valuable.

And the coup de gras is this. Cirelli has 1 .5 on contract then rfa while Bertuzzi has 1.5 years until ufa. There is zero nada nil case 1.5 years of Bertuzzi is better than 2.5 years of Cirelli.

 

[nbwingsfan]

In review for red wings fans
Bert ufa 2023
Cirelli RFA 2023
With what Cirelli brings and the contract situation Bertuzzi is emphatically NOT better than Cirelli.
50 cents!

I forgot contracts determine hockey skill? This proposal is obviously assuming that Bert is re-signing as well

 

[nbwingsfan]

What gm would rather have 1.5 years of control of Bertuzzi over 2.5 years of Cirelli.

Please do reply.

Contending teams who get the better hockey player ?

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Love how people are undervaluing Bert and Hronek

 

[Flyer lurker]

I forgot contracts determine hockey skill? This proposal is obviously assuming that Bert is re-signing as well

You do know what happens when u assume?

TBL is going to have loads of cap room and keep bert for 8-9m. HA HA HA smh Your "assumptions" are getting weaker by the second. There is not one gm who would take 1.5 year of bert control over 2.5 years of control of Cirelli, This isn't anti Bert This is PRO the player who shuts down your top line and helps you to win a 2-1 1-0 game in the playoffs.

If Cirelli were to be traded it is for ready made kids and so they can use cap space to resign Palat. Newhook, Kings prospects, Rangers prospects. OK those offers I can acquire prospects playing for next 5 years and keep Palat. At least I am not rofl. There is not any way 1.5 years of bert is better player than 2.5 years of Cirelli. And if you are assuming resigning, then you do not get player evaluation.

Bertuzzi wins games
CIRELLI WINS CUPS!

 

[nbwingsfan]

You do know what happens when u assume?

TBL is going to have loads of cap room and keep bert for 8-9m. smh Your "assumptions" are getting weaker by the second. There is not one gm who would take 1.5 year of bert control over 2.5 years of control of Cirelli, This isn't anti Bert This is PRO the player who shuts down your top line and helps you to win a 2-1 1-0 game in the playoffs.

If Cirelli were to be traded it is for ready made kids and so they can use cap space to resign Palat. Newhook, Kings prospects, Rangers prospects. OK those offers I can acquire prospects playing for next 5 years and keep Palat. At least I am not rofl. There is not any way 1.5 years of bert is better player than 2.5 years of Cirelli. And if you are assuming resigning, then you do not get player evaluation.

Bertuzzi wins games
CIRELLI WINS CUPS!

This was very hard to read.

 

[Flyer lurker]

This was very hard to read.

Facts are hard to read
Facts are tough knowing Col and TBL would pick Cirelli over Bert for a cup run 100 of 100.
Facts are tough that 2.5 is more valuable than 1.5.
Facts are tough and not assuming we live in unicorn land and players will resign.
Facts are tough Cirelli has 2 back to back cups while Bertuzzi has 0 playoff appearances.

 

[Flyer lurker]

This was very hard to read.

Now lets continue on with hard facts.
TBL's playoffs schedule looks on paper to be ridiculous. And it is GLARING that 1a center is more valuable than a power forward when you look at the matchups.
Cirelli matching up against Mathews round 1 is more valuable than Bert. Period end of discussion
Cirelli matching up against Barkov round 2 is more valuable than Bert end of discussion.
Next round is hardest to predict. Lets stick to paper and say Carolina. Cirelli shutting down Aho is more valuable than any stats Bert puts up. For sure also more valuable in shutting down Ovie line, Crosby.
Finals is either Vegas or Colorado on paper. Once again Cirelli shutting down Eichel or Nathan Mac is more valuable than bert stats.

If you do not have a shutdown c you do not beat any of the teams I mentioned above. And of course it won't be a perfect shutdown. The players above will get their points. But Cirelli controls those players from going nuts so that when tbl line 1 dominates and in past 2 years tbl line 3 dominates, then tbl wins cups.

Bertuzzi helps you win 4-3

Cirelli helps you beat Isles 1-0 game 7, holding isles to under 20 shots, on the way to a cup championship

 

[abbbaron]

That's nice. Doesn't address anything I said.

This trade isn't really good for either team, with or without cap considerations.

1. If Detroit is making trades it's going to be for picks, not roster players.

2. Tampa Bay really has no reason to trade Cirelli or Sergachev at this point in time. Tampa Bay has no roster weaknesses and the NHL has made it very apparent that the cap is more of a suggestion than a rule for them.

3. Detroit needs a top-6 center, Cirelli is more of a strong middle six center. Great to have on your third line, but you don't want him as a permanent top six fixture.

4. With Detroit's garbage fire of a roster, there is no way to forecast how players will work on the team and player-for-player trades become risky as hell. Cirelli might end up being a 25 point checking center on this roster.

read between the lines: if Yzerman would want picks out of such a deal then he could retain on Bertuzzi and/or Hronek

as for the rest of your points, what he said:

Huh?

 

[Flyer lurker]

3. Detroit needs a top-6 center, Cirelli is more of a strong middle six center. Great to have on your third line, but you don't want him as a permanent top six fixture.
.

Cirelli is so criminally underrated on these boards.

 

[abbbaron]

I reither give Erik Carnak and then let Sergachev grow in Tampa.

From the Wings' perspective, I'd probably rather have Cernak (and his eventual cap hit around ~5.5mil avg) than Sergachev (due upwards of 7.5mil avg) who hasn't been good at even strength this season, but it doesn't work all that well positionally as Cernak is a righty and on Tampa's side the deal it wouldn't really provide any cap relief, which is the primary motivation for being willing to swap these players in the first place. Detroit could retain on Bertuzzi and/or Hronek, but again the stars just don't quite align for Detroit or Tampa to make such a deal

 

[abbbaron]

Neither Cirelli nor Sergachev are getting those numbers in Tampa. They also have to want to sign that OS to leave Tampa for, likely, a significantly worse team. If Serg asks for more than either McD or Hedman are making, Brisebois can move him separately for a much better return. Cirelli and Cernak will likely(and should) be the priority. I expect Cirelli to come in around 6.5 or a little higher(7 tops) and Cernak to come in around 4.5-5. Depending on how the rest of this season goes with Serg, I would expect Brisebois looks to extend him in the 6-6.5 range as well. Tampa hasn't had that many issues extending their top rfa's after their bridges, and I don't see it being that big of a problem this time either. If it is, as I said, Serg likely gets moved for a great package of picks/prospects that are close to ready.

Tampa has little need to move their 2C for a winger, and Serg can return better value if moved alone. The trade doesn't save any meaningful amount of space for Tampa(based on my projected contract values anyway) and weakens them, overall, from a positional standpoint. I just don't see Brisebois making the deal.

Setting their expectations at +7.2mil and then trying to lowball them for +1mil less would be a great way to burn bridges. You're not going to be able to buy any UFA years from Cirelli or Sergachev @ 6-6.5mil

 

[Pavels Dog]

Cirelli is so criminally underrated on these boards.

Bertuzzi is as well. Players like him are a very rare breed.

 

[bert]

They’re getting a better forward but a worse D. You can say it may not be what they need, but how is this 50 cents on the dollar

Considering your arguments against Bertuzzi and how he is just some run of the mill average player you must not know who Cirelly is. Or maybe you've mistaken him for another player?

Bertuzzi is as well. Players like him are a very rare breed.

Oh this is rich. Biggest flip flop I've read on here for a while. You were just arguing how Raymond is carrying him. Baha..

Detroit fans are really something these days. In one thread I hear them talking about Bertuzzi being a 40 point player at best and being carried by Raymond. The next thread Tampa is trading Cirelly and Sergachev for him. Haha.

 

[bert]

Detroit says no as they lose the best player in this deal with no real value coming back the other way in terms of top-6 goal scoring.

wut

 

[RN61k]

Setting their expectations at +7.2mil and then trying to lowball them for +1mil less would be a great way to burn bridges. You're not going to be able to buy any UFA years from Cirelli or Sergachev @ 6-6.5mil

I wouldn't be so sure about that. We've seen plenty of their players resign for under market value to stay with TB. Not saying its guaranteed but I could easily see both of them taking ~1+ million less AVV to stay with a team that is competitive each year.

 

[Pavels Dog]

You were just arguing how Raymond is carrying him. Baha..

Or, I was arguing against Bertuzzi+Larkin carrying Raymond. There's a whole lot of room in between before it becomes an argument about Raymond carrying the others..

 

[samsagat]

Neutral fan here.

As far as I'm concerned Sergachev and Cirelli have more value than Bertuzzi and Hronek.

Detroit would have to add a bit.

But it's not far off.

 

[golffuul]

wut

13 15 28 for Cirelli
2 20 22 for Sergachev

4 19 23 for Hronek
22 18 40 for Bertuzzi

Cirelli and Sergachev don't even cover the goals lost by Bertuzzi alone. It's an easy pass from Detroit who is struggling with goal scoring as it is. Taking away one of their top 2 goal scorers to do a moderate upgrade on Hronek for not even a right-shot dman when we have Edvinsson coming in the next year to take one of our top 2 LD spots.

Just not a good trade and one that Yzerman certainly wouldn't entertain.

 

[UED]

I don't get why every Detroit proposal is them trying to trade Bertuzzi 1 for 1 for a significant downgrade. Has he said he doesn't want to be a Red Wing? I would never trade him if he was on my favorite team, not that we've had anyone quite as good in my lifetime.