Proposal: Bertuzzi & Hronek for Cirelli & Sergachev

[abbbaron]

Thats fine. Or Palat signs for cheap. Tampa's not in a major cap crunch this upcoming offseason

You do see that they only have 21 players on their active roster? So yes, if Palat signs for league min then Tampa shouldn't have trouble filling out a full 23-man roster next season.

 

[These Are The Days]

Who the f*** are Bertuzzi and Hronek?

 

[abbbaron]

Who the f*** are Bertuzzi and Hronek?

a couple guys who outscore Cirelli and Sergachev despite being surrounded by far less talent

 

[Nucker101]

The talent gap here is smaller than people are making it out to be. Cirelli being able to play center obviously doesn’t hurt though.

 

[These Are The Days]

a couple guys who outscore Cirelli and Sergachev despite being surrounded by far less talent

Rhetorical question. Why even trade them then? No one proposes a trade for a player they want to keep and/or better than the guy they're trading for.

 

[abbbaron]

Rhetorical question. Why even trade them then? No one proposes a trade for a player they want to keep and/or better than the guy they're trading for.

Detroit does this because they need a 2C and partner for Seider, and Yzerman happens to be familiar with the counterparts.

 

[These Are The Days]

And I saw that. If these guys produce better numbers despite lesser talent than the solution is to keep them and develop them. On Tampa's end, trading for commodities unknown to them while attempting the first three peat in nearly 40 years is too risky

 

[abbbaron]

And I saw that. If these guys produce better numbers despite lesser talent than the solution is to keep them and develop them. On Tampa's end, trading for commodities unknown to them while attempting the first three peat in nearly 40 years is too risky

I actually have this in mind as a deal for the coming off-season, as it somewhat depends on what Tampa decides to do regarding Palat (whom I imagine they'd want to try and keep while letting Killorn walk the following off-season). It's not a deal that resolves Tampa's potential crunch going into next season, rather this is all about off-season 2023 when Cirelli will likely be seeking Couturier-money and Sergachev will seek near Hedman-money.
Detroit isn't going anywhere until they get better defensively. Cirelli is a solid defensive center that fits the bill for what they need. Hronek is offensive-minded and a righty; Sergachev, a lefty, would be a more natural fit to play with Seider and he could be dropped right in rather than wait years for Edvinsson or whoever to come into their own.

 

[McJedi]

For example? Who is going to trade away their cap-controlled contributors for soon-to-be fully priced Cirelli and/or Sergachev in way that allows Tampa to continue with "win now" while also navigating their coming crunch?

There are 31 NHL GMs that would have the interest, creativity and ability to craft proposals for either of those Tampa players. This offer is 46 cents on the dollar. Many NHL teams would easily beat this offer.

part of winning now means winning with some ELCs. And first round picks. They’d want and get both.

 

[abbbaron]

There are 31 NHL GMs that would have the interest, creativity and ability to craft proposals for either of those Tampa players. This offer is 46 cents on the dollar. Many NHL teams would easily beat this offer.

in a world without an NHL salary cap or internal caps, yeah there might 30-odd GMs throwing their hats in the ring.
How much of Bertuzzi and Hronek have you watched?

 

[McJedi]

in a world without an NHL salary cap or internal caps, yeah there might 30-odd GMs throwing their hats in the ring.
How much of Bertuzzi and Hronek have you watched?

Plenty. Bertuzzi is pretty good but a UFA after next season, Hronek is meh.

they don’t get a Cirelli.

 

[Guttersniped]

Likely a flat cap next season and, depending on how the variants/sub-variants develop, the NHL may be looking at a 4th straight season of relatively suppressed revenue, so one shouldn't count on the cap going up much for 23-24 either. Even if they let Palat and Killorn go for nothing, how does Tampa fit 2.5-3mil raises for each of Cirelli & Sergachev, a 2-2.5mil raise for Cernak, and 1-1.5mil raises for Colton & Foote all in the same off-season? Roll with a 16-man roster?

Wait, I saw just that Bertuzzi basically has the same contract as Cirello except he’s a UFA in 2 years instead of RFA.

And Hronek has 2 years/4.4m after this vs Sergachev’s 1 year/4.8m.

The new two players are 450k cheaper next season and then they get one extra RFA year of the much worse player? That’s all Tampa would get out of moving two top RFA? They aren’t keeping Bertuzzi so the RD would need to better for them.

 

[abbbaron]

Wait, I just that Bertuzzi basically has the same contract as Cirello except he’s a UFA in 2 years instead of RFA.

And Hronek has 2 years/4.4m after this vs Sergachev’s 1 year/4.8m.

The new two players are 450k cheaper next season and then they get one extra RFA year of the much worse player? That’s all Tampa would get out of moving two top RFA? They aren’t keeping Bertuzzi so the RD would need to better for them.

Downgrading from Sergachev to Hronek frees up cap so Tampa would have money to extend Bertuzzi if they so choose (I'd imagine Bertuzzi will enjoy the weather, lower taxes/political environment, and contending for cups and therefore be amenable to re-signing on friendly terms). Cirelli and Sergachev are RFAs whose next deals will weigh in at a minimum of 7.2mil/yr each (and likely significantly more than that considering their cup pedigrees and arbitration rights). Try fitting those in to a flat cap when Cernak's next deal will be a minimum 4.425mil/yr (likely to come in upwards of 5mil) and Colton may also need a substantial raise if he continues his upward trajectory.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You do see that they only have 21 players on their active roster? So yes, if Palat signs for league min then Tampa shouldn't have trouble filling out a full 23-man roster next season.

You can run a roster legally at anywhere from 20-23 players. They likely will not run 23 as that saves them at least 750k.

If Palat wants to be paid he can go somewhere else, Tampa obviously can't afford him if he wants a raise. However they can afford to pay him less with more term or look at a cheaper option such as Perron or Mikheyev.

We can do the math together if you like?
Next year Tampa has 17 players signed with 1 RFA. If the cap stays exactly the same they will have 6.533334M cap space to work with. It has already been projected that the cap will raise by 1M, so they can likely make that 7.533334M. Assuming they and get a cheap backup and depth forward that leaves them with about 5.8M cap and 19 players signed. Sign Joseph for cheap or don't qualify him and you have just under 5M and 20 players signed.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Downgrading from Sergachev to Hronek frees up cap so Tampa would have money to extend Bertuzzi if they so choose (I'd imagine Bertuzzi will enjoy the weather, lower taxes/political environment, and contending for cups and therefore be amenable to re-signing on friendly terms). Cirelli and Sergachev are RFAs whose next deals will weigh in at a minimum of 7.2mil/yr each (and likely significantly more than that considering their cup pedigrees and arbitration rights). Try fitting those in to a flat cap when Cernak's next deal will be a minimum 4.425mil/yr (likely to come in upwards of 5mil) and Colton may also need a substantial raise if he continues his upward trajectory.

The final-year QO rule does not apply to Cernak, Sergachev, or Cirelli as their contracts were signed after July 10, 2020. See: Qualifying Offer Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Hobnobs]

Plenty. Bertuzzi is pretty good but a UFA after next season, Hronek is meh.

they don’t get a Cirelli.

Thats good because we dont want Cirelli. Bertuzzi is offensively a few levels above Cirelli and thats what we need.

 

[JTBF81]

The qualifying offers for both Serg and Cirelli are 5.76, not 7 2. Tampa quickly declines this offer.

 

[SundherDome]

Imagine playing a Canadian team in the playoffs and Bertuzzi has to stay back in Tampa.... That alone would probably put me off

 

[Hobnobs]

Imagine playing a Canadian team in the playoffs and Bertuzzi has to stay back in Tampa.... That alone would probably put me off

Leafs is knocked out of the first round bydefault and there is no other canadian team to face this year.

 

[SundherDome]

Leafs is knocked out of the first round bydefault and there is no other canadian team to face this year.

Could see Edmonton of Calgary unless Tampa doesn't plan on making the cup finals

 

[WingsToPick4th]

or the wings go out and just sign a C like Hertl, or trade for a guy of lesser value like Copp

 

[abbbaron]

You can run a roster legally at anywhere from 20-23 players. They likely will not run 23 as that saves them at least 750k.

If Palat wants to be paid he can go somewhere else, Tampa obviously can't afford him if he wants a raise. However they can afford to pay him less with more term or look at a cheaper option such as Perron or Mikheyev.

We can do the math together if you like?
Next year Tampa has 17 players signed with 1 RFA. If the cap stays exactly the same they will have 6.533334M cap space to work with. It has already been projected that the cap will raise by 1M, so they can likely make that 7.533334M. Assuming they and get a cheap backup and depth forward that leaves them with about 5.8M cap and 19 players signed. Sign Joseph for cheap or don't qualify him and you have just under 5M and 20 players signed.

I understood the math, though I believe the cap projection was made before some teams went back to playing in empty arenas, so I think the more likely outcome is flat cap for next season. Tampa can only afford Palat if he takes a massive pay cut; even if he's willing to take a sweetheart deal in the 4-5mil range Tampa has to cut elsewhere

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I understood the math, though I believe the cap projection was made before some teams went back to playing in empty arenas, so I think the more likely outcome is flat cap for next season. Tampa can only afford Palat if he takes a massive pay cut; even if he's willing to take a sweetheart deal in the 4-5mil range Tampa has to cut elsewhere

I just showed you the math of a 20 man roster with 5M extra cap. lower it to 4M with an 81.5M cap again and that's still enough space to sign player that can serve in Palat's spot. Jake DeBrusk likely isn't qualified at 4.41M so maybe sign him to a ~3M deal and have 1m extra for the 22nd member.

You are overblowing Tampa's cap constraints dramatically

 

[abbbaron]

The final-year QO rule does not apply to Cernak, Sergachev, or Cirelli as their contracts were signed after July 10, 2020. See: Qualifying Offer Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Gracias, I forgot that that had been tweaked in the last CBA update

The qualifying offers for both Serg and Cirelli are 5.76, not 7 2. Tampa quickly declines this offer.

Ultimately that just makes it easier for Tampa to retain their negotiating rights; it doesn't mean Cirelli and Sergachev will be happy to accept less than what they're making in the last year of their most recent contract. If it reaches arbitration Cirelli can rightly point to Couturier's contract and Sergachev can point to all the brutally inflated 8-9mil contracts for blueliners now in the system

 

[abbbaron]

I just showed you the math of a 20 man roster with 5M extra cap. lower it to 4M with an 81.5M cap again and that's still enough space to sign player that can serve in Palat's spot. Jake DeBrusk likely isn't qualified at 4.41M so maybe sign him to a ~3M deal and have 1m extra for the 22nd member.

You are overblowing Tampa's cap constraints dramatically

? what about my reply was incorrect?