Balsillie/Phoenix part V

[Northern Dancer]

In all fairness, Doug MacLean was not an owner. I assume he was vetted because he was the Governor.

Wasn't he part of the group that bought Tampa Bay? (and dropped out I think wisely)

 

[LadyStanley]

Coyotes live blog:
Balsillie's lawyer believes that the NHL is blocking any team to go to Hamilton. Judge counters with has anything prior to this ever been submitted for it. Balsillie's lawyer responds no.

 

[King_Stannis]

Who's to say that if relocation is thrown open, the "best" deal might not be with KC?

Or Winnipeg, the Commissioner's city of choice if Phoenix doesn't work out.

 

[Evil Doctor]

You need to inform yourself better about the timeline. By the time Boots came around, the deal to buy the Preds had already been agreed upon. Boots was simply a replacement to additional bank funding.

I'm not sure how this conflicts with what I said? Boots was brought in to give the Freeman group "street cred" and the appearance of deeper pockets. Are you trying to say the Freeman bid would have passed muster without Boots addition?

 

[VelvetJones]

Would the league agree to take over that arena lease?

 

[KevFu]

I agree with a lot of what you've said. But Oakland and Atlanta have roots in baseball. They always have.
The same can't be said for Phoenix. I don't know if it'll ever be a good place for hockey. Kids don't grow up playing it and most adults don't even understand it.

I don't like how the fans in Phoenix might be losing their team. It's no different than what happened to the smattering of baseball fans Montreal had.
But at some point, it becomes too clear that some sports aren't welcome in certain towns.

I wish the relocation could have been done in some other way as well. But it is, what it is. And I think as long as someone has the means to move it, you might as well do it.

Well, I'd argue that Oakland/Atlanta's existence in MLB is relatively short compared to most (got teams in 1966-68).

I'd also put forth that LA, Tampa, San Jose, and Carolina are doing well and they don't have a hockey culture (see my hockey culture assimilation thoughts here: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=639729&page=14 )

I'd also put forth that Montreal was doing pretty well with MLB for a while, but got screwed over by TWO work stoppages and a drug scandal.

But that's irrelevant.

I'm glad you have nothing to do with the league...just sayin.

I didn't say it wasn't Dallas Video games are different than real life and I'm a realist.

 

[Dugray]

Whoever the poster was that stated that most of the time the judge is hardest on the side that is winning, give yourself a cookie.

I can see this being the end result.

That would be me. And it's a good cookie

 

[TaketheCannoli]

do you think after 12 years losing money and no end in sight JBs lawyers wont find that one easy to take out though sems like its pretty tough now and really how as an owner would i consent to losing money when someones willing to step in who will convert loss to profit i see this as maybe Bettmans end because he will likely have owners who are not making great money now saying where does this come from my equalization money in revenue sharing pool just shrunk or rich teams having to pay alot more either way this is no simple situation and i se Gb as roasted now

I'm not sure the Judge has tipped his hand yet. He is asking a lot of tough questions or all the parties. All of them are having some challenges answering him.

If he has tipped anything, it may be an auction for the team and mediating in advance the rights fees the NHL will charge any winner who wants to move the team.

Balsillie wouldn't like this because he seems to want to buy the team on the cheap, as per Rodier's admitted Chapter XI strategy, AND a buyer who wanted to keep the team in Phoenix would only need to beat Balsillie's team offer without a large Relo fee. This could easily mean a $150 million offer to keep the team in Phoenix would be larger than a $225 million offer to move the team.
Then additionally, the Judge said Glendale's claim is somewhere between $7 and $550 million. Whatever he determines it to be effects how he views a bid to move.

The NHL wouldn't like this because they could lose the right to approve a move in this case.

Edit: NHL has said fee is $100M. JB atty warns that's high.

 

[Ward Cornell]

I wonder how happy the other NHL owners would be to shell out more cash for a dying franchise?

It's similar to asking a corpse for a blood donation.

 

[BogsDiamond]

Well, I'd argue that Oakland/Atlanta's existence in MLB is relatively short compared to most (got teams in 1966-68).

I'd also put forth that LA, Tampa, San Jose, and Carolina are doing well and they don't have a hockey culture (see my hockey culture assimilation thoughts here: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=639729&page=14 )

I'd also put forth that Montreal was doing pretty well with MLB for a while, but got screwed over by TWO work stoppages and a drug scandal.

But that's irrelevant.

Those are excellent arguments.
But TB and Carolina have won cups and SJ has been one of the best teams in the last few years.

Phoenix is in a tough bind. They're on the bubble for making the playoffs, and while they have some great young talent, they might not be ready to push for a serious playoff run for another few seasons. Who knows if the team can survive until that happens.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Boots did have some sort of clause which would allow him to move the team if it didn't meet it's marks though, so he wasn't an afterthought.

Nope. Incorrect. Boots could not make that happen. The team could. Short of all of the other shareholders going more or less bankrupt, Boots was never going to control the team.

 

[KevFu]

At the same time, I wonder if Ballsillie would even care about this.
So what if the NHL says '$100M to move the team to Hamilton'.

He'd probably happily fork over the cash.

Yeah, because he's still saving $200 million.

If he was willing to get Hamilton a team at any cost, you've got hockey arena plans
and a willing owner (Jerry Bruckheimer) in Las Vegas. He could easily have put together his Copps deal and a proposal for a 32-team league that solves some alignment issues in the process.

For JB, it always has been about getting a $500 million asset in Hamilton for $200-$300 million by poaching another franchise.

 

[Brodie]

In all fairness, Doug MacLean was not an owner. I assume he was vetted because he was the Governor.

He was talking about when he tried to buy the Lightening.

 

[BogsDiamond]

That would be me. And it's a good cookie

Damn you! Now I'm hungry!

 

[Evil Doctor]

Coyotes live blog:
Balsillie's lawyer believes that the NHL is blocking any team to go to Hamilton. Judge counters with has anything prior to this ever been submitted for it. Balsillie's lawyer responds no.

I'm not sure, but Colorado's potential move to Hamilton in 1980 was actually approved by the NHL. Buffalo was to get no indemification while Toronto was to receive a whopping $1. The only reason it fell apart was a new mayor was elected in Hamilton who didn't like "backroom deals" and balked at paying the upgrades to Ivor Wynne that Harold Ballard wanted.

Likewise, if you want to go far enough back, the NHL approved Quebec's move to Hamilton in 1920 without indemification fees to Toronto for the simple reason it wanted to block the potental start up of a rival league...

 

[BogsDiamond]

Yeah, because he's still saving $200 million.

If he was willing to get Hamilton a team at any cost, you've got hockey arena plans
and a willing owner (Jerry Bruckheimer) in Las Vegas. He could easily have put together his Copps deal and a proposal for a 32-team league that solves some alignment issues in the process.

For JB, it always has been about getting a $500 million asset in Hamilton for $200-$300 million by poaching another franchise.

Again, great points.

 

[LadyStanley]

Would the league agree to take over that arena lease?

In as far as the NHL agrees to pay the bills to keep the team going, yes.

(But there seems to be some reports that the league has talked with Glendale about providing some incentives to keep team in JOBING.com arena. Which would probably be considered a modification of the lease.)

 

[bcrt2000]

fanster_sports Coyotes hearing: I am pretty sure the Judge said that if this process goes past June 30, the NHL may have to adjust free agency start date.



That would piss a lot of people off...

 

[VelvetJones]

The evil side of me somehow wants the NHL to keep the team in Phoenix just so it can bleed the poorer owners so that they fire Bettman and Daly.

I can't believe smart businessmen who made their millions/billions on shrewd business moves would even be falling for bettmans plans.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

Brahm Resnik: Judge not buying narrative of blood feud between NHL and Balsillie.

 

[VanNistelrooy]

Right now, who do you guys believe has the best arguments ?

 

[TaketheCannoli]

Fugu

from our very own Art Vandelay: NHL says Reinsdorf bid is in writing but not submitted due to privacy reasons

 

[KevFu]

Those are excellent arguments.
But TB and Carolina have won cups and SJ has been one of the best teams in the last few years.

Phoenix is in a tough bind. They're on the bubble for making the playoffs, and while they have some great young talent, they might not be ready to push for a serious playoff run for another few seasons. Who knows if the team can survive until that happens.

If you check out the thread I linked to, the main part of developing those hockey markets was that they came into a league where the new fans saw NHL hockey from traditional markets with traditions and history for virtually all their teams games. They learned what the NHL was about and "got it."

All of the struggling hockey markets (PHX, ATL, NASH) came into the league after the two-division setup and play 3/8 of their games against teams with no history beyond 1991-2000.

The analogy would be: three guys in 2006 became big soccer fans because we invited them to the World Cup. They saw the passion, the interest, the culture, and got with it.

Three other guys tried to become soccer fans in 2007, but we showed them MLS games and it didn't have quite the impact.

It's going to take PHX longer than DAL or SJ.

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

NHL says Reinsdorf bid is in writing but not submitted due to privacy reasons

"hearsay" it is then.

 

[bcrt2000]

Right now, who do you guys believe has the best arguments ?

Both have gotten hammered but the judge really wants them to resolve this amicably. I think if he has to rule, hes going to make decisions that will make both sides unhappy (such as revoking the NHL's rights, Balsillie having to pay Glendale a fee, etc) and his ruling could be overturned in an appeal. I think he realizes time is of the essence and the only way to get it done is if Balsillie agrees to a big relocation fee and the NHL agrees to relocation.