Balsillie/Phoenix part V

[Evil Doctor]

I suppose that if you can make a blanket statement like that then I can come back with my own.

You just don't get it, do you? It's always been about the League, and especially MLSE, trying to block any the putting of another NHL franchise anywhere in southern Ontario... and Balsillie made it about trying to find a way around that roadblock. For him, there was never any point in waiting to try to get and Expansion team, because it literally would be a waste of time. The decision was made that the only way that might work would be to try to relocate a team and then challenge the League's objections. He wouldn't have that option of challenging if it were an Expansion request.

I almost feel like I don't need to post after that comment. I could never put it as suscinct as that.

If I can't be profound, I can always be silly.....

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I suppose that if you can make a blanket statement like that then I can come back with my own.

You just don't get it, do you? It's always been about the League, and especially MLSE, trying to block any the putting of another NHL franchise anywhere in southern Ontario... and Balsillie made it about trying to find a way around that roadblock. For him, there was never any point in waiting to try to get and Expansion team, because it literally would be a waste of time. The decision was made that the only way that might work would be to try to relocate a team and then challenge the League's objections. He wouldn't have that option of challenging if it were an Expansion request.

Well except in his interview last weekend, Rick Rodier said his plan since 2002 was to jump into a bankruptcy, jump in, buy them cheap and move them to So. Ontario. Then he says he went around looking for people who actually had the money to make this work. It took a year, but he got to Balsillie and sold him on the idea.

By the way, I maintain this isn't about Balsillie, it's about Rodier.

 

[LadyStanley]

cbctom: Attorney representing other pro leagues next. Baum skeptical of chaos argument. Attorney agrees no team can move alone

 

[BigFatCat999]

Hey guys I just arrived. Can somebody give a quick recap on what has happened so far? Anything significant?

We have a battle between Bettman and NHL's group meekly saying "no" to the judge matching the Ballsillie/Moyes group meekly saying "no". In other words, this is a Monty Python sketch and the judge is doing a lot of facepalming.

 

[LadyStanley]

LadyStanley also makes a good point that the poorer teams do not want another premier club in the league that will push the Cap floor any higher.

Just to clarify... That was not me making the point, I just cut/pasted comment.

 

[Fugu]

The NHL disagreed that they had approved JB as he didn't agree to the 7-year no movement clause. From everything I have seen the judge did not further attack this point. I think you know this as well and have moved from being informed yet combative to ignoring facts and being combative.

I'm ignoring no fact, just your interpretation of events. The judge hasn't in fact ruled, just failed to follow this line further.

What the judge has said is he wants consistency and fairness. To me, that means 7 yrs is 7 yrs and a relo fee is $50 million per ________ or $100 million per ________, not a make it up as we go along thingy...

Fugu

from our very own Art Vandelay: NHL says Reinsdorf bid is in writing but not submitted due to privacy reasons

"hearsay" it is then.

Yes, it was the judge, leek, who said he had no offer before him.

The judge seems to realize the impact allowing this relocation bid to go through would have on the rest of the major sports.
You would see a few teams from the NBA and MLB try to do the same thing as Moyes.

That's why he'll probably allow the sale and relocation but it will come with a very hefty fee.

I think this goes back to the consistency and fairness aspect he has mentioned a couple of times now.

Recess for lunch and so Bettman can catch his plane to Pittsburgh.

Art.V reported that the judge was allowing Bettman to leave to award the Cup tonight.

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

the judge is doing a lot of facepalming.

Literally.

 

[Ward Cornell]

I'm not the biggest fan of vegas either. Seattle/Portland/Winnipeg yes, but not Vegas.

It's incredible that even with the Phoenix fiasco goin' down they are still considering this.

 

[LadyStanley]

cbctom: League's attorney says geographical variety is part of game's popularity




Right. And here I thought it was good (fast) hockey.

 

[MoreOrr]

Well except in his interview last weekend, Rick Rodier said his plan since 2002 was to jump into a bankruptcy, jump in, buy them cheap and move them to So. Ontario. Then he says he went around looking for people who actually had the money to make this work. It took a year, but he got to Balsillie and sold him on the idea.

By the way, I maintain this isn't about Balsillie, it's about Rodier.

Well ok, it may well have been Rodier's idea to take this route, and thus also to possibly get it done cheaper. But in the end, it's almost certainly the only route that ever had any potential of succeeding, minor though it may be.

 

[BogsDiamond]

Tom Harrington:
League's attorney says geographical variety is part of game's popularity

What a bunch of bunk! Since relocating and expanding teams to different areas our TV deal has sunk from $120M/year to $60M.
And we just resigned with NBC for essentially a 'free-to-air' contract.

 

[BigFatCat999]

It's incredible that even with the Phoenix fiasco goin' down they are still considering this.

Of course they are, under the rules of the sports holy trinity; owner, city, arena. Vegas has two of the three. The city IS large enough and Bruckheimer would be a good owner. All that is needed is an arena. The gambling issue is a turn off for me.

 

[Hawkscap]

Media reports indicate that Reinsdorf is a pretty quiet man, not seeking the limelight.

From media reports, there's also been some supposition that Reinsdorf may pull his offer if there's "too much" publicity about it.

Being a White Sox fan and Bulls fan, Reinsdorf gave us 6 NBA titles and 1 WS title but the a-hole still tried to move the White Sox to St Pete unless the state of Illinois got on it's knees, screwed Carlton Fisk, gave us the dreaded white flag trade and gave us Jerry Krause.

Quiet man? Yes , beacause he is in the back room negotiating the best way to stab the fans in the back.

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

cbctom: League's attorney says geographical variety is part of game's popularity

If that was the case, they wouldn't be in court right now.

 

[Alberta Yote]

So the auction will be held at the same time for two different things, being a franchise that can move but with relocation/indemnity/damages charges of "X" and and a franchise staying put without any of those charges?

 

[Fugu]

LadyStanley also makes a good point that the poorer teams do not want another premier club in the league that will push the Cap floor any higher.

From sportsnet:
Creditors want the $212 million offer, a representative from the Creditors Committee is saying.

Thus they are asking the creditors to take less money so the cap system they designed doesn't hurt teams further by doing something all businesses should want-- higher revenues (and ultimately, franchise values).

 

[BogsDiamond]

from cbc:
League's attorney worries that a bankruptcy court ignoring league rules would lead to other owners doing the same thing

Oh no! You mean we would have other profit-losing franchises moving to profitable markets???

I can see why the NHL hates this idea now!

 

[Evil Doctor]

Media reports indicate that Reinsdorf is a pretty quiet man, not seeking the limelight.

From media reports, there's also been some supposition that Reinsdorf may pull his offer if there's "too much" publicity about it.

I'm sorry but that is just plain weird. I can understand privacy in cases where a new potential owner of a business wants it to keep it quiet to keep stock prices from skyrocketing and making the cost of buying more expensive, but it doesn't apply in this case. He doesn't have to be in the limelight, he just needs to honest and forthright, and he can get flunkies to do that for him....

 

[BigFatCat999]

I'm just waiting for the judge to point to both groups and say, "Listen, can you please choose the least moronic of your group to speak? I got a golf game to get you and you are going make me miss my tee time."

 

[King_Stannis]

Being a White Sox fan and Bulls fan, Reinsdorf gave us 6 NBA titles and 1 WS title but the a-hole still tried to move the White Sox to St Pete unless the state of Illinois got on it's knees, screwed Carlton Fisk, gave us the dreaded white flag trade and gave us Jerry Krause.

Quiet man? Yes , beacause he is in the back room negotiating the best way to stab the fans in the back.

So six titles in basketball and one in baseball is "stabbing the fans in the back"?

I'm sure there are plenty of fans who would love to have an owner stab them so.

 

[BogsDiamond]

If that was the case, they wouldn't be in court right now.

You sir a genius:

From Sporstnet:
Now a gentleman is here on behalf of MLB, NBA and NFL... "Whether the Coyotes are allowed to move or not is important to the NHL. The fundamental thing it could wreak havoc on all sports teams is a comment you (Baum) made, is that with the exception of bankruptcy, no team is unilateraly allowed to move."

He's stating Ontario is the gem for hockey teams to be and that it is not in the best interest of the league for "all teams to relocate to best areas."

"At the end of the day the process ought to be the same for this sport as if the Coyotes weren't in this case."

Baum quickly pointing out why we're in bankruptcy court.

 

[King_Stannis]

from cbc:
League's attorney worries that a bankruptcy court ignoring league rules would lead to other owners doing the same thing

Oh no! You mean we would have other profit-losing franchises moving to profitable markets???

I can see why the NHL hates this idea now!

Except that in this case it could mean submarining one of the best US markets around, Buffalo.

 

[bishop12]

from cbc:
League's attorney worries that a bankruptcy court ignoring league rules would lead to other owners doing the same thing

Oh no! You mean we would have other profit-losing franchises moving to profitable markets???

I can see why the NHL hates this idea now!

haahaa

 

[TaketheCannoli]

So six titles in basketball and one in baseball is "stabbing the fans in the back"?

I'm sure there are plenty of fans who would love to have an owner stab them so.

I'm a Blue Jackets, Cavaliers and Browns fan. PLEASE stab away!

 

[Fugu]

cbctom: League's attorney says geographical variety is part of game's popularity

Right. And here I thought it was good (fast) hockey.

I guess we leave Phoenix where it is and move the Devils, Isles and Ducks.

Well ok, it may well have been Rodier's idea to take this route, and thus also to possibly get it done cheaper. But in the end, it's almost certainly the only route that ever had any potential of succeeding, minor though it may be.

If that was the case, they wouldn't be in court right now.

I think that's it, MoreOrr. There was no other path to Hamilton or a 2nd team in Toronto/GTA. You start off with a bid that is reasonable to the creditors in PHX, then add on to what ultimately would be a relo fee. A pure expansion probably was never going to happen so the point is moot.