Balsillie/Phoenix part V

[BogsDiamond]

Here's more from Sportsnet:

Baum questioning Clark of the argument this move would ruin professional sports.

Clark tried to shy away, Baum wouldn't let him.

Baum reminding Clark of the move of Johnny U's Colts from Baltimore to Indy... Baum reminding league lawyers that mayor of Indianapolis arranged for moving vans to show up at midnight and move in the middle of the night.

No lawsuit by NFL, Baum says.

League says "NFL was hopeless" and couldn't stop the move.


NHL lawyers questioning health of NFL because there is no team in LA.

Just so we're clear, NHL lawyers are questioning the business health of the National Football League.



^^^^ WOW

So, I guess there's going to be an opening for an NHL lawyer soon.
Clark's going to be chasing ambulances by tomorrow.

 

[digger18]

what that says to me is that the NHL was blowing some weak PR smoke to try and 'show' justification for being so combatitve to the Balsillie deal.

If there are no other legitimate deals to keep the team afloat, or at least no substantive evidence that they exist...the NHL has therefore shot themselves in the foot.

Good! I honestly hope that not only Balsille wins this case, but also Bettman is embarassed into resignation when it's all said and done!

 

[Fugu]

Is the presence of the other leagues and their numerous relocations hurting the NHL's claims of chaos to sports leagues? (Rhetorical question.)

I think Bettman's smirk at the Joe the other night had little to do with the score at the game. That's small fries compared to this stuff.

 

[iceless]

Good! I honestly hope that not only Balsille wins this case, but also Bettman is embarassed into resignation when it's all said and done!

I'm going to throw a party when this happens!

 

[KevFu]

And yet that same team made money and had a loyal fan base during that time.

Even in the 85-86 season, when they amassed a whopping 40 points, they averaged 17,000 fans at the Joe.

The Coyotes have never made money and have been one of the worst drawing teams in the league.

I know everyone says, "well they need time to build a history and once they start winning fans will come". Well there's 30 teams in the league so there has to be some losers. Maybe it's time the NHL looked at cities where they know fans will continue to support even during down times.

Glendale is a terrible hockey town and unless they win a Cup in the next 2-3 years, people will continue to ignore the franchise.

It's also a different economic structure of the league than back then. The majority of revenue from the NHL back then came via ticket sales. Now it's from suites and sponsorships and the like.

Look, I'm not arguing the team wouldn't be more profitable in Hamilton. And I'm definitely not anti-Canadian markets. Heck, when I play NHL on PS2, I create seven franchises and eliminate most the Sun Belt teams -- adding the Quebec Nordiques, Winnipeg Jets, Hartford Whalers, Toronto Marlies/Moose Jaw somethings, Rochester Americans, Oswaha Generals, Hamilton Racers (nice stock logo with a road that makes an H)

I'd FAVOR contraction. If I was dictator of hockey for a day, we'd have a 24-team league with 10 Canadian teams, Hartford back, and only one city would have a team where there wasn't naturally occurring ice outside in Dec/Jan.

I'm just anti-this method of bringing an NHL team to Hamilton.

I don't think you dump any franchise after 12 years because one smart guy can turn a horrible franchise into a powerhouse. Like what happened in Detroit, like what happened to MLB's Atlanta Braves. Even a small market team, (see Oakland A's/Minnesota Twins in baseball).

 

[ESY16]

On the point that the NHL tried to make about being able to approve who could join the club, did anyone think it was significant that the judge asked them if they hadn't already approved JB?

Is he signaling that even if he rules JB can move the team, the points the league brings up about approving an owner, getting a relo fee, and moving to a stronger market (did they shoot themselves in the foot by admitting this after saying they had not studied the market) would be met and thus the league's rights to business practices would still be preserved?

The NHL disagreed that they had approved JB as he didn't agree to the 7-year no movement clause. From everything I have seen the judge did not further attack this point. I think you know this as well and have moved from being informed yet combative to ignoring facts and being combative.

 

[LadyStanley]

I have no doubt that the Coyotes should be in the top 10 in the league in terms of travel expenses, because of their location and schedule breakdown. The teams in the Northeast play 32-35 of 41 road games in their own time zone. Phoenix is playing what? 12?

41 home games and "zero" road games in their own time zone.

Arizona has it's own time zone. They do not have daylight savings times. They are either equivalent to PT (when DST is in effect) or MT (during standard time roughly early November to early/mid March; or the majority of the season).

Teams in MT include Colorado, Edmonton, Calgary. (That's two games in each location.)

Teams in PT include Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Jose and Vancouver. (Three games each for the initial trio; two for the latter.)

But of course, it all depends on the building availability and the NHL schedulers how many games actually are at the "same" time.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

Brahm Resnik:

NHL's offer to fund team here for next year carrying a lot of weight with judge.

Judge challenges Yotes fans: If NHL funded team, fans and community would have to step up to keep team here.

 

[no13matssundin]

From liveblog:

Freeman throwing arrow out stating "as if two Toronto businessmen will keep it here forever"... Shot, likely, at Argos owners David Cynamon and Howard Sokolowski.


Nice

 

[GSC2k2*]

MacLean is a Bettman yes man, I doubt very much the NHL took much pains at all with Del Biaggio, especially considering his association with the Los Angeles Kings at the time. Add to the fact they were desperate to put together an ownership group that was a counter to Balsillie...

You need to inform yourself better about the timeline. By the time Boots came around, the deal to buy the Preds had already been agreed upon. Boots was simply a replacement to additional bank funding.

 

[LadyStanley]

Who's to say that if relocation is thrown open, the "best" deal might not be with KC?

 

[BogsDiamond]

It's also a different economic structure of the league than back then. The majority of revenue from the NHL back then came via ticket sales. Now it's from suites and sponsorships and the like.

Look, I'm not arguing the team wouldn't be more profitable in Hamilton. And I'm definitely not anti-Canadian markets. Heck, when I play NHL on PS2, I create seven franchises and eliminate most the Sun Belt teams -- adding the Quebec Nordiques, Winnipeg Jets, Hartford Whalers, Toronto Marlies/Moose Jaw somethings, Rochester Americans, Oswaha Generals, Hamilton Racers (nice stock logo with a road that makes an H)

I'd FAVOR contraction. If I was dictator of hockey for a day, we'd have a 24-team league with 10 Canadian teams, Hartford back, and only one city would have a team where there wasn't naturally occurring ice outside in Dec/Jan.

I'm just anti-this method of bringing an NHL team to Hamilton.

I don't think you dump any franchise after 12 years because one smart guy can turn a horrible franchise into a powerhouse. Like what happened in Detroit, like what happened to MLB's Atlanta Braves. Even a small market team, (see Oakland A's/Minnesota Twins in baseball).

I agree with a lot of what you've said. But Oakland and Atlanta have roots in baseball. They always have.
The same can't be said for Phoenix. I don't know if it'll ever be a good place for hockey. Kids don't grow up playing it and most adults don't even understand it.

I don't like how the fans in Phoenix might be losing their team. It's no different than what happened to the smattering of baseball fans Montreal had.
But at some point, it becomes too clear that some sports aren't welcome in certain towns.

I wish the relocation could have been done in some other way as well. But it is, what it is. And I think as long as someone has the means to move it, you might as well do it.

 

[KevFu]

41 home games and "zero" road games in their own time zone.

Arizona has it's own time zone. They do not have daylight savings times. They are either equivalent to PT (when DST is in effect) or MT (during standard time roughly early November to early/mid March; or the majority of the season).

Teams in MT include Colorado, Edmonton, Calgary. (That's two games in each location.)

Teams in PT include Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Jose and Vancouver. (Three games each for the initial trio; two for the latter.)

But of course, it all depends on the building availability and the NHL schedulers how many games actually are at the "same" time.

Arizona's "Indiana-like" time issues aside, Phoenix plays six in their Mountain Time Zone (COL, EDM, CAL), and Nashville plays six (CHI, STL, DAL) in their Central Time Zone.

I meant from a "as comparable as you'll find" because 2/3 of the league is in the East Time Zone and 15 of them play nine road games outside ET tops.

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

I'd FAVOR contraction. If I was dictator of hockey for a day, we'd have a 24-team league with 10 Canadian teams, Hartford back, and only one city would have a team where there wasn't naturally occurring ice outside in Dec/Jan.

I'm glad you have nothing to do with the league...just sayin.

 

[BogsDiamond]

Brahm Resnik:

NHL's offer to fund team here for next year carrying a lot of weight with judge.

Judge challenges Yotes fans: If NHL funded team, fans and community would have to step up to keep team here.

I wonder how happy the other NHL owners would be to shell out more cash for a dying franchise?

I guess the owners will have to weigh their love of money against their hate of Ballsillie.

 

[LadyStanley]

CBCSports.ca - Tom: From Tom Harrington: Baum predicts there may not be NHL hockey here in 2 years but likes that NHL would pay bills without conditions.

 

[bcrt2000]

You need to inform yourself better about the timeline. By the time Boots came around, the deal to buy the Preds had already been agreed upon. Boots was simply a replacement to additional bank funding.

Boots did have some sort of clause which would allow him to move the team if it didn't meet it's marks though, so he wasn't an afterthought.

 

[bbud]

Brahm Resnik:

NHL's offer to fund team here for next year carrying a lot of weight with judge.

Judge challenges Yotes fans: If NHL funded team, fans and community would have to step up to keep team here.

do you think after 12 years losing money and no end in sight JBs lawyers wont find that one easy to take out though sems like its pretty tough now and really how as an owner would i consent to losing money when someones willing to step in who will convert loss to profit i see this as maybe Bettmans end because he will likely have owners who are not making great money now saying where does this come from my equalization money in revenue sharing pool just shrunk or rich teams having to pay alot more either way this is no simple situation and i se Gb as roasted now

 

[TaketheCannoli]

You need to inform yourself better about the timeline. By the time Boots came around, the deal to buy the Preds had already been agreed upon. Boots was simply a replacement to additional bank funding.

In all fairness, Doug MacLean was not an owner. I assume he was vetted because he was the Governor.

 

[mouser]

Judge seems to be pretty clear that he thinks NHL has a right to territory/relocation fees. Balsillie's lawyer is having a hard time responding.

 

[BogsDiamond]

CBCSports.ca - Tom: From Tom Harrington: Baum predicts there may not be NHL hockey here in 2 years but likes that NHL would pay bills without conditions.

Whoever the poster was that stated that most of the time the judge is hardest on the side that is winning, give yourself a cookie.

I can see this being the end result.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

Judge to JB atty: You need to convince me the NHL legal claims are protected -- like paying franchise fee?

 

[Northern Dancer]

I wonder how happy the other NHL owners would be to shell out more cash for a dying franchise?

I guess the owners will have to weigh their love of money against their hate of Ballsillie.

You haven't been following this thread to closely as your comment above is so far off the mark, I don't even know where to start.

 

[LadyStanley]

CBCSports.ca - Tom: More from Tom Harrington in the courthouse:
Baum says he's not sure the NHL doesn't have the right to choose a member if the fee to join as long as its fair and lawful.

 

[BogsDiamond]

Judge seems to be pretty clear that he thinks NHL has a right to territory/relocation fees. Balsillie's lawyer is having a hard time responding.

At the same time, I wonder if Ballsillie would even care about this.
So what if the NHL says '$100M to move the team to Hamilton'.

He'd probably happily fork over the cash.