Prospect Info: Bakersfield Condors '16-17 Thread

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McYoungGuns

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Jul 2, 2009
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Edmonton,Alberta
thanks for the assessment, now I don't mean to be harsh but we honestly dont care if you guys win or lose, the AHL is a developmental league for us , if JP is putting points up and playing well (which he is) sorry but it doesn't matter if u lose a billion games, we'll take our player and be happy

maybe don't be so biased "losing every game he's been here " lol
 

belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
39,622
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Canada
thanks for the assessment, now I don't mean to be harsh but we honestly dont care if you guys win or lose, the AHL is a developmental league for us , if JP is putting points up and playing well (which he is) sorry but it doesn't matter if u lose a billion games, we'll take our player and be happy

maybe don't be so biased "losing every game he's been here " lol

I don't know if you've been asleep for the last 10 or 15 years but winning is huge for development. Players aren't going back to the farm to put up points individually. They need to learn what it take to win hockey games.

If we're banking on JP light up the AHL get called up and do the same, it's a fantasy and it's quite possible we could have another Yakupov on our hands in a few years when the fan-base starts to get on his case.

Puljujarvi has a lot to improve on.
 

Bryanbryoil

Pray For Ukraine
Sep 13, 2004
87,750
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Nice to see Jesse scoring, I was a little worried about his goalscoring confidence by the time that he was sent down.
 

BB88

Registered User
Jan 19, 2015
41,468
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Didn't see the game today but looks like he was the 2nd star of the game.

Has he done something to his stick, changed it or is it just different style of taping? It's been bothering me for few days :laugh:


I've been also watching highlight videos from last year, highlight videos from his 1st games of this season and about half his AHL games and you can tell he had a knee surgery. To me there's a clear difference and his speed seems to be back.
 
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Burnt Biscuits

Registered User
May 2, 2010
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This team gets outshot by a fairly decent margin way too often, it's not a particularly good AHL team on paper, but I still feel like the coaching staff should be able to get more out of these guys.
 

McJadeddog

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Sep 25, 2003
20,737
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Regina, Saskatchewan
It hurts me being right so much, right jadeddog? ;)

i'm always happy to be wrong if it means our players are doing better, and lets be honest, i'm not usually wrong cause i'm expecting GOOD things, lol

pulj needs to do an AWFUL lot more for me to be convinced about any offensive ability at the NHL level.... but its nice that he is doing a little better in the AHL
 

FlameChampion

Registered User
Jul 13, 2011
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This team gets outshot by a fairly decent margin way too often, it's not a particularly good AHL team on paper, but I still feel like the coaching staff should be able to get more out of these guys.

And dont they play AHL veterans more than young players, who have essentially a minimal chance of making the NHL at this point? Though Oilers AHL forward depth is pretty weak with no slepshev, pitlick, cagguila, etc on the team
 

Senor Catface

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Jul 25, 2006
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i'm always happy to be wrong if it means our players are doing better, and lets be honest, i'm not usually wrong cause i'm expecting GOOD things, lol

pulj needs to do an AWFUL lot more for me to be convinced about any offensive ability at the NHL level.... but its nice that he is doing a little better in the AHL

An AWFUL lot more? Like what? What are your unrealistic expectations with THIS player?

If you get rid of the guys who've played less than 10 games, Jesse is 15th for PPG for rookies.

The ages of the guys above him? And a little below?

1. 21
2. 22
3. 20
4. 23
5. 19
6. 23
7. 21
8. 20
9. 20
10. 22
11. 21
12. 24
13. 20
14. 21
15. 18
16. 20
17. 24
18. 25
19. 21
20. 24

Can you see which one of these is not like the others?
 

easternrefugee

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Jun 24, 2013
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Bakersfield, CA
Here in Bako everyone is getting equivalent ice time. heck Hamilton has bene on the third and fourth line and he wears the C. JP has bounced up and down the the various lines. he is not playing PK but is on the #1 PP. WE have had a max of 20 shots on goal in the past 3 games and as an entire team we have played like crap. The team as a whole has zero desperation.

At this point it is hard to say who sucks because as a team no one stands out either good or bad with the exception of Ellis. He plays well even when he has zero support.
 

Draiskull

Registered User
Oct 26, 2005
23,388
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Here in Bako everyone is getting equivalent ice time. heck Hamilton has bene on the third and fourth line and he wears the C. JP has bounced up and down the the various lines. he is not playing PK but is on the #1 PP. WE have had a max of 20 shots on goal in the past 3 games and as an entire team we have played like crap. The team as a whole has zero desperation.

At this point it is hard to say who sucks because as a team no one stands out either good or bad with the exception of Ellis. He plays well even when he has zero support.
isnt Connor McLander back with the team? He will lead you guys to glory.
 

Spawn

Something in the water
Feb 20, 2006
44,472
17,063
Edmonton
This team gets outshot by a fairly decent margin way too often, it's not a particularly good AHL team on paper, but I still feel like the coaching staff should be able to get more out of these guys.

It's too bad we lost Todd Nelson in the shuffle when we brought in McLellan. He seems to be an excellent AHL coach. Gerry Fleming has been with the coaching staff on our AHL team for 10 seasons now. Last 2.5 as head coach and I think it would be fair to say the results have been underwhelming. At what point do we bring someone new in?
 

Aerchon

Registered User
Jul 20, 2011
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It's too bad we lost Todd Nelson in the shuffle when we brought in McLellan. He seems to be an excellent AHL coach. Gerry Fleming has been with the coaching staff on our AHL team for 10 seasons now. Last 2.5 as head coach and I think it would be fair to say the results have been underwhelming. At what point do we bring someone new in?

I hate bases an opinion with so little information but I personally think a rather large overhaul of our coaching, personnel, and even players is long over due.

We have had one of the best prospect pools in the league and still should have a decent one in theory and it doesn't seem like the Condors focus on winning or development let alone both like it should.

Is the AHL system personnel just saturated with too many old boys club members?
 

easternrefugee

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Jun 24, 2013
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Bakersfield, CA
I hate bases an opinion with so little information but I personally think a rather large overhaul of our coaching, personnel, and even players is long over due.

We have had one of the best prospect pools in the league and still should have a decent one in theory and it doesn't seem like the Condors focus on winning or development let alone both like it should.

Is the AHL system personnel just saturated with too many old boys club members?

Our Team here has issues playing a solid 60 minutes. Normally it is maybe the first 20. WE have a great defense on paper and yet we have sucked for 3 games. It is honestly boring hockey. No one wants to check. No one wants to crash the net. No one wants to go for secondary scoring. Including JP, we are a perimeter team. More often than not we are great at hitting the logo on the goal tenders jersey. THE best games that we had here was when MacT showed up to watch some games. All of a sudden all 4 lines were working and we had I think 2 shut outs against great teams.

I do not know if it is FLeming as a coach or FLeming as a motivator. Something is not working.
 

Hugo McStiglitz

#BlameTheWater
Dec 27, 2010
1,698
49
I wonder what the possibility is of Fleming being let go if Bako doesn't do well to end the season. It would be cool to hire Kris Knoblauch or an up an coming CHL coach for our minor league system.
 

PaPaDee

5-14-6-1
Sep 21, 2005
13,483
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Saskazoo
The real measuring stick for an AHL coach should be the extent to which he's able to develop young players into NHL players, with the wins/losses being secondary. But I'm not sure what his record is on player development.
 

North

Registered User
Jun 25, 2009
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The real measuring stick for an AHL coach should be the extent to which he's able to develop young players into NHL players, with the wins/losses being secondary. But I'm not sure what his record is on player development.

While Bakersfield is not winning many games, there does seem to be some player development happening.

Slepyshev, Khaira, Oesterle is looking serviceable, and we're hearing good things about Reinhart recently.
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
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While Bakersfield is not winning many games, there does seem to be some player development happening.

Slepyshev, Khaira, Oesterle is looking serviceable, and we're hearing good things about Reinhart recently.

That and how much better is Bakersfield if guys are in the AHL instead of the NHL? We saw a lot of guys get action this year that could've been down in Bakersfield. Up front there just hasn't be loads of help for a consistent amount of time. Like right now, #3 scoring forward on the roster is Josh Currie with 18 points in 43 games
 

easternrefugee

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
296
0
Bakersfield, CA
You cannot measure Fleming this or last year base don wins. Fleming is dealing with a bag of garbage up front. After all you cannot turn a purse out of a pig's ear. WE have today in forwards

Lander
JP
Beck
Hamilton

as the best quality. With that being said that is just not good enough to be competitive against other teams who have either drafted well or like the Kings who have sent many NHL forwards to the AHL. OIN defense we were fine until we lost both Osterle and Reinhard. Reinhard has been having a back issues that tend to flare up and he cannot play. Ellis is good but this is his first pro season. Most of the dead weight with the exception of Betker will be gone this summer.
 

Trafalgar Sadge Law

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Nov 8, 2007
11,538
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Why are you guys clamouring to fire Fleming already? Who cares how well Bakersfield is doing? The AHL is about development and I couldn't care less if they lost every game as long as we get NHLers out of it. The only reason to do well in the AHL is because you'd give prospects an opportunity to get playoff experience. Not that Fleming has been perfect by any stretch, but so far it's yielded some good early returns. Since he's taken over Bako:

-Jesse Puljujarvi finally looks comfortable playing NA hockey down there
-Tyler Pitlick who everyone gave up on rejuvenated himself last season and at times looked like the best bottom sixer prior to his injury this season
-Anton Slepyshev looks like a full time NHLer who brings tons of energy and can play up and down the lineup
-Jujhar Khaira brought a lot of energy and flashed some underrated offensive instincts is his brief time up here
-Jordan Oesterle showed promise on both sides of the ice during his short callups
-Griffin Reinhart who looked like he was done seems to have found his groove at the AHL level at least

Give him time. We can fire him if our prospects start busting like crazy.
 

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
38,025
18,961
Why are you guys clamouring to fire Fleming already? Who cares how well Bakersfield is doing? The AHL is about development and I couldn't care less if they lost every game as long as we get NHLers out of it. The only reason to do well in the AHL is because you'd give prospects an opportunity to get playoff experience. Not that Fleming has been perfect by any stretch, but so far it's yielded some good early returns. Since he's taken over Bako:

-Jesse Puljujarvi finally looks comfortable playing NA hockey down there
-Tyler Pitlick who everyone gave up on rejuvenated himself last season and at times looked like the best bottom sixer prior to his injury this season
-Anton Slepyshev looks like a full time NHLer who brings tons of energy and can play up and down the lineup
-Jujhar Khaira brought a lot of energy and flashed some underrated offensive instincts is his brief time up here
-Jordan Oesterle showed promise on both sides of the ice during his short callups
-Griffin Reinhart who looked like he was done seems to have found his groove at the AHL level at least

Give him time. We can fire him if our prospects start busting like crazy.

that's a good point about development. During Nelson's tenure, it was a common thing for our prospects to be buried in ice time and for the older AHL-forever players to be in the prominent roles. It seems like a fact that you have to pick between winning or development. And yes, like you say, it looks like signs are good so far in terms of developmental results.
 

Digger12

Gold Fever
Feb 27, 2002
18,314
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Back o' beyond
AHL head coaches have to walk a bit of a tightrope. On one hand their main role as directed by their parent club is to develop players so that they can be positive contributors at the NHL level.

On the other hand they have their own career aspirations as well, and by and large their goal is to find their way to an NHL gig, whether it's as a head coach or an assistant with any of the 31 teams. And yeah, having a good rep as a developer of young guys is one good thing to have on that resume...but having a winning record and/or successful playoff runs will get you more notoriety when it comes to that job interview. And by and large that winning AHL team is going to be due to relying on your AHL veterans to push the needle.
 

Burnt Biscuits

Registered User
May 2, 2010
9,283
3,418
Why are you guys clamouring to fire Fleming already? Who cares how well Bakersfield is doing? The AHL is about development and I couldn't care less if they lost every game as long as we get NHLers out of it. The only reason to do well in the AHL is because you'd give prospects an opportunity to get playoff experience. Not that Fleming has been perfect by any stretch, but so far it's yielded some good early returns. Since he's taken over Bako:

-Jesse Puljujarvi finally looks comfortable playing NA hockey down there
-Tyler Pitlick who everyone gave up on rejuvenated himself last season and at times looked like the best bottom sixer prior to his injury this season
-Anton Slepyshev looks like a full time NHLer who brings tons of energy and can play up and down the lineup
-Jujhar Khaira brought a lot of energy and flashed some underrated offensive instincts is his brief time up here
-Jordan Oesterle showed promise on both sides of the ice during his short callups
-Griffin Reinhart who looked like he was done seems to have found his groove at the AHL level at least

Give him time. We can fire him if our prospects start busting like crazy.
-Pulju is doing as expected, he was a very good player in the FEL and was highly touted, his transition to the AHL should be seamless anything less would be a major disappointment. Even with no coaching input he should still do relatively well at the AHL level.
- I never gave up on Pitlick and was always someone I had in the mix for an NHL call-up, the problem was he kept getting de-railed by injuries, anytime he could stay relatively healthy and get some momentum and a little confidence under him he was a good player. He made this team a couple times before this season, he just got injured at the worst time and it cost him big time. I think the biggest difference between this camp and past camps is he played with more desperation & maturity as he knew his window at an NHL career was beginning to close.
-Slepy, had a really rough transition to the AHL, Fleming really should of been able to get more offense out of him down there last year, given his skill set. I will say that Slepy looks to have improved his defensive game over the past year and Fleming might of had a hand in that, but he looked frustrated through a lot of last year in the AHL cause he wasn't contributing offensively like he wanted to.
-Khaira's progression has looked very linear to me, he improves a little bit every year, regardless of who his coach is it seems more like natural maturation more-so than good coaching.
-Oesterle's points have crept up, but I've never had a ton of faith in Oesterle and I'm thinking he will remain a relatively fringe NHL d-man for the majority of his career (and has been for past 2-3 seasons), if he breaks through and elevate himself above a Taylor Chorney kind of career I'll pass some kudos along, but I still consider him to be more of a maybe than a success story.
-with respects to Reinhart I think Chia and McLellan sitting him down and giving him the hard truth on what he needs to improve to ever sniff the NHL lit a fire under his butt, he really didn't show much progress last year under Fleming, this year he just is playing with more passion and seems to be actively trying to improve himself.


My problem with Fleming is our shots totals are way too low and I don't think he is getting as much offense as he should be getting out of a lot of our young guys. There are your really special talents like a Puljujarvi who should deliver regardless of coaching, Pulju at the AHL is like the equivalent of Hall at the NHL regardless of our horrible coaching carousel it was hard to keep him down. Then there are those non-premiere offensive talents who need development time in the AHL like your Baertschi's, Tatar's, and Maroon's who I think need to score to keep their confidence up and yet still add wrinkles/elements to their game, it is players of this ilk that I question Fleming's ability to develop.

Also one thing you didn't mention in your post about prioritizing developing players over a good team, is most players look a lot better on a winning team or in a winning program, regardless of whether or not they are in fact any better in practical terms, the players on the winning team generally make better trade chips and as we make the transition to being a winning team having trade chips we can dangle in the AHL will be important to having the winning bid on acquiring players we want to add without subtracting from the active roster.

I'd rather be proactive rather then waiting for players to bust and we have a rich owner who can spend relatively big money on an AHL coach I'd like to have a top 3-5 AHL head coach. Fleming isn't a horrible coach by any means and I'm too sporadic with my AHL viewings to criticize him too harshly, I don't think he's ruining our players and needs to be gotten rid of ASAP, but I'm becoming skeptical of him being an ideal coach to develop NHL talents particularly ones with a strong offensive leaning.
 
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