Blue Jays Discussion: Back in Toronto AND things are happening (trade deadline @ 4pm ET/1pm PT today)

[The Nemesis]

Whatever, champ. It's the truth. My quick link to this website is actually from a point in 2019, even though I've been around longer than that (about the first year of the Leafs rebuild).

And it's not him specifically, but he's aware of it and told me he's watching. And I've already been vindicated, and the games continue to support everything I said, plus Nemesis didn't actually address my points, so I don't need to mount a "defense". The fact is, I just don't care that much.
And I'm not too keen on addressing someone who starts an angry rant with a bunch of false and vastly hyped up accusations anyway. It's actually kind of sad he went through all that trouble over what is essentially a minor observation. I didn't exactly create a power point presentation or anything. The truth of the matter here is everything that has happened here these last few days is the result of everyone's favourite player receiving a bit of criticism and his fans getting upset. I even tried to drop it, but you guys kept piling on. Heck, I've been part of numerous communities for 20 + years without ever being modded once. Here? I get my first ever by criticizing Vlad. Now THAT is sad.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned at this point, you guys are resorting to lies and distorted observations to attack me just because you don't like me. Whatever, I've been right way, WAY too many times in the past to care (I mean, you guys were all going on about how Vlad would show up on day 1 hitting everything even though it was blatantly obvious he would start off slow), and I've already proven myself here. And these arguments are sapping my enjoyment of watching the games. Maybe one day I'll find a baseball forum with mature people inhabiting it.

But I'll continue to be around. Oh, yes. Always watching...because you guys are very quick to post news updates.

the irony in this post is outstanding. Really some A+ stuff. Perhaps second only to how completely and utterly false most of it is.

 

[dredeye]

I do agree if you are not going all in then the deal with Bryant included doesn't make too much sense since you are basically waving the white flag and hoping a small addition takes you over the top vs going all out and filling holes on the team this year and worry only about this year.

I am not sure Biggio is much more than a utility player on this team. He might be able to carve out a full-time role on another team but on this team, he is mostly a super-utility guy. I go back to the Chapman for Torres deal for the Cubs. If Kimbrel was the missing piece would you hesitate giving up Biggio knowing Kimbrel is the last piece or 2 left to have a legit shot at the playoffs/World Series? This team has a playoff offense but a AAA bullpen. Bonus would be no more Dolis in high leverage or ever seeing Thornton again

It's like any sports team. Fans fall in love with the players who came up thru the system while the teams market them and the TV side pumps their tires like they are the greatest but in reality, if Biggio say left this team tomorrow in a deal for Kimbrel and you are watching the world series with the Jays no one is really saying boy I wish we had Biggio instead.

At some point, the Jays will have to give up something to get a piece. I do think Kimbrel this year would give the Jays the boost they need. Forget about numbers think about it from a mental POV for the players. You know in the 9th or high leverage spot you are bringing in one of the best closers in history. As an offensive player you know if you put up 5 or 6 there is a better chance of winning vs needing to put up 10 cause your bullpen sucks. You don't need your starters to give you 7 as you can run Kimbrel, Romano, Mayza/Borucki in the 9th,8th, and 7th. You then have a combo of Richards/Cimber and the others for 6th inning duty. Even Charlie can't screw that up...well maybe

I think the starters can go 5. Ruy, Ray, Manoah can get you 5 on a consistent basis and probably closer to 6. Matz, Stripling can give you 5 and the odd time 6 is a bonus.

So if you are going to trade for Kimbrel and have the bullpen play out as described above it helps your starters and might not need to add one at the deadline. OH yeah, throw in Pearson in the bullpen and your staff is pretty good.

I think then the holes left to be a legit contender are 3B and catcher. Might as well fill 3B with Bryant on a rental and it might cost you a decent prospect but boy you are seeing an MVP season from Vlad. Semien and Ray are only guaranteed to be here this year so why not go all in.

So while I agreed with you at the start of the post by maybe not the time I think I just talked myself into why not go for it this year. You never can tell what chance you will get in the future.

No matter what they need to make a move to build this current team.

I get what your saying and would love of repeat of the wonderful year that we all loved so much. Unfortunately, I don't see this trade as the one that gets us there. I don't mind paying when that is the case but adding someone like Biggio to the deal IMO has to be for a young controlled starter. Losing him for a year and half of Kimbrel seems like an overpayment. That isn't me being a homer because I don't see him as highly as others do and proposed him in deals last off season. I'm basing it more on the cost you've seen set in the market the last few years. Young roster players don't tend to be moved in this type of deal let alone two of them. I'm also not even opposed to trading Lourdes because he's covered if he's traded although his arm would be missed. You can't rely on Pearson coming in and being effective as of yet. I just think we are a few too many pieces away and a little too far back. Missing Semien and Ray next year creates even bigger holes unfortunately. It's a tough one for sure

 

[Hoverhand]

Cashman starting to feel the heat radiating from the hot seat.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Cashman starting to feel the heat radiating from the hot seat.

So there's not much of a story...there... baby

 

[ryno23]

I get what your saying and would love of repeat of the wonderful year that we all loved so much. Unfortunately, I don't see this trade as the one that gets us there. I don't mind paying when that is the case but adding someone like Biggio to the deal IMO has to be for a young controlled starter. Losing him for a year and half of Kimbrel seems like an overpayment. That isn't me being a homer because I don't see him as highly as others do and proposed him in deals last off season. I'm basing it more on the cost you've seen set in the market the last few years. Young roster players don't tend to be moved in this type of deal let alone two of them. I'm also not even opposed to trading Lourdes because he's covered if he's traded although his arm would be missed. You can't rely on Pearson coming in and being effective as of yet. I just think we are a few too many pieces away and a little too far back. Missing Semien and Ray next year creates even bigger holes unfortunately. It's a tough one for sure

The Jays were in the same spot in 2015 about the same games out of 1st and basically 43 of 61 down the stretch. I do think you are overvaluing Biggio. I can't see him bringing in a young controlled starter alone. He is a utility guy who can play all over the field but his bat just isn't there.

I do hope they bring in a good player to signal to this group that they can make the playoffs. This team is better than their record especially if they fix their bullpen issues.

 

[ryno23]

the irony in this post is outstanding. Really some A+ stuff. Perhaps second only to how completely and utterly false most of it is.

I was hoping my Cubs trade proposal would bring back the board off this drama and get back to figuring out how the Jays can get to the playoff this year lol

 

[Morgs]

Feels insane to me to take a guy that early and not sign them. I don't miss AA for that reason, holy.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

People do realize that run in 2015 we went on....was not normal right? Like just because it happened 6 years ago does not mean if we make all in moves now that we are gonna suddenly flip the switch and become some unbeatable juggernaut that we became in '15. I just do not see the point in pushing all the chips in this year at all.

 

[The Nemesis]

Feels insane to me to take a guy that early and not sign them. I don't miss AA for that reason, holy.

It happens more than you think. Feels like there's usually one guy every year that doesn't end up signing.

But yeah, if you're gonna blow a high draft pick on someone you should be pretty damn sure that you can get him signed. Otherwise what were you even doing?

Unsigned 2nds do net a compensatory 3rd rounder next year, but that's a bit of a drop to take for gambling and losing that big.

 

[canucksfan]

People do realize that run in 2015 we went on....was not normal right? Like just because it happened 6 years ago does not mean if we make all in moves now that we are gonna suddenly flip the switch and become some unbeatable juggernaut that we became in '15. I just do not see the point in pushing all the chips in this year at all.

Also, this year there are three good teams they have to catch, two really good teams. 2015 only had the Yankees.

 

[dredeye]

The Jays were in the same spot in 2015 about the same games out of 1st and basically 43 of 61 down the stretch. I do think you are overvaluing Biggio. I can't see him bringing in a young controlled starter alone. He is a utility guy who can play all over the field but his bat just isn't there.

I do hope they bring in a good player to signal to this group that they can make the playoffs. This team is better than their record especially if they fix their bullpen issues.

Sorry maybe I worded that wrong. I didn’t mean as a 1 for 1 but certainly the main piece

 

[dredeye]

Feels insane to me to take a guy that early and not sign them. I don't miss AA for that reason, holy.

Not to mention they don’t recoup anything. That’s a lot of pool money to throw away. Seems like they didn’t do their do diligence

 

[ryno23]

Sorry maybe I worded that wrong. I didn’t mean as a 1 for 1 but certainly the main piece

no I figured as much after re-reading it. I do think Biggio needs to find a team that will play him at 2B and let him not worry about playing so many positions.

 

[Amadeus]

I think the management team will take a very cautious approach to the deadline this year. That means I don't foresee any of our top prospects in the top 100 being dealt. You may see a move for a middle reliever and a mid to late rotation starter but that's it.

I don't think this team has shown enough this year that we should be taking that big of a risk right now.

 

[phillipmike]

I believe both Lopez and Hiraldo need to be added to the 40 man roster to prevent them from being eligible to the rule 5 draft. They should have room no problem, but they are my prime trade candidates if the Jays make a somewhat big trade.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I think the management team will take a very cautious approach to the deadline this year. That means I don't foresee any of our top prospects in the top 100 being dealt. You may see a move for a middle reliever and a mid to late rotation starter but that's it.

I don't think this team has shown enough this year that we should be taking that big of a risk right now.

I'm the opposite - while they won't go "all-in" they will.make moves to show the guys they believe in them.

 

[dredeye]

no I figured as much after re-reading it. I do think Biggio needs to find a team that will play him at 2B and let him not worry about playing so many positions.

Yea it’s nice to have a super utility guy but he actually needs to have the ability to play the positions well. He doesn’t have the arm to be one.

 

[habamillions]

People do realize that run in 2015 we went on....was not normal right? Like just because it happened 6 years ago does not mean if we make all in moves now that we are gonna suddenly flip the switch and become some unbeatable juggernaut that we became in '15. I just do not see the point in pushing all the chips in this year at all.

Exactly. Also the division is much better now then it was then.

 

[ryno23]

Yea it’s nice to have a super utility guy but he actually needs to have the ability to play the positions well. He doesn’t have the arm to be one.

3rd or SS are out of the question as is RF. He can play 2B, 1B, CF and LF. You don't resign Semien you tell Biggio you are the 2B next year so get ready for 140 starts at 2B.

 

[shaner8989]

Been telling y’all for months now that Montoya is a f***ing moron. Assume you all agree now

Cost us the season

Sell Ray and Semien at the deadline

Why a f***ing waste of a season

 

[canucksfan]

Been telling y’all for months now that Montoya is a f***ing moron. Assume you all agree now

Cost us the season

Sell Ray and Semien at the deadline

Why a f***ing waste of a season

I don't think any posters here are fans of Montoyo. That started last year with his weird decisions.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I believe both Lopez and Hiraldo need to be added to the 40 man roster to prevent them from being eligible to the rule 5 draft. They should have room no problem, but they are my prime trade candidates if the Jays make a somewhat big trade.

Lopez is already on the 40 man. Smith needs to be added though. He actually could have been taken this past rule 5 draft.

 

[habamillions]

I don't think any posters here are fans of Montoyo. That started last year with his weird decisions.

Yeah most think he was the rebuild manager. Next season is the year to go and get some pitching. A left handed version of semien. Then get a new manager that knows how to win. Look at what boston has done with a decent manager that makes the smart decisions. Same team as last year but totally different record

 

[stickty111]

Sometimes good teams can be held back by one aspect and thats us. Just sell unless you get control on pieces.

 

[Tony Romo]

Nats taking offer on Turner, whew.