Blue Jays Discussion: Back in Toronto AND things are happening (trade deadline @ 4pm ET/1pm PT today)

[TGB]

Nice to see Rowdy regaining his form a bit with the Brewers. It always felt like his issues were more mental than anything else.

 

[dredeye]

Aside from most of the topics you have discussed, yes you are right.
Why didn't you discuss the rest of his post? It showed you were wrong? Thanks for admitting it then.
Also accusing Nem of using authority on a point, bad look man.

You can tell someone is new around here if they accuse Nem of something like that. Incredible lucky to have him as a mod here and his knowledge and depth in posts is great.

 

[stickty111]

You can tell someone is new around here if they accuse Nem of something like that. Incredible lucky to have him as a mod here and his knowledge and depth in posts is great.

Yup. One of my favorites around here.

 

[TGB]

I've been following this thread for years. I have a very good idea of how you guys post.

 

[Discoverer]

The 2021, Jays are 49-46. +87 run differential. 4 GBs of the WC and 9.5 GBs of the division.

On July 28, 2015 the Jays were 50-51 with a +96 run differential. 3 GBs of the WC and 8 GB of the division.

On that day the Jays traded for the Rockies SS and a few days late made a few more trades.

In 2021, the Jays have younger, better and more controllable players with a much much better farm and financial flexibility.

Also keep in mind the 2021 Jays accomplished this record and those feats playing all their games on the road.

Ball is in Shapiro’s court.

That fourth paragraph is probably a big reason they WON'T make a big splash right now... there's a lot less desperation now than there was in 2015.

Also, two teams that far ahead for the division likely means they're playing for the Wild Card. It's much different trying to make up 8+ games on multiple teams.

I think this deadline will be more likelast year than 2015, but I could see a big surprise or two if they can get a player with another year or two of control.

 

[theaub]

Agreed as it stands right now, there's no defensible reason to make a big rental splash. If you're getting control and the by-product is being able to take a run at Oakland for the WC2 I'm all for it.

 

[dredeye]

I've been following this thread for years. I have a very good idea of how you guys post.

Apparently not. Unless you know your argument was so brutal that you had to accuse Nem of using his moderator status to prevent you from giving a proper response as your only defence. It’s quite sad. It’s ok to be wrong sometimes. Knowing you’re right is not a rebuttal

 

[canucksfan]

I don't think Groshans gets enough credit. I can't vouch for his defense but his hitting has been excellent. He missed most of 2019 with an injury.

Since June, he has a wRC of 144, .899 ops and his walk rate is 10.5 and k rate is 16.5

In July he has a wRC of 184 and walking more than striking out. Ops is 1.024. The only issue is his power. His ISO is low but his power should improve.

 

[canucksfan]

Just noticed SWR isn’t in the top 100.

 

[dredeye]

That’s a lot of high top 100 too. Swr not being on is interesting. Pearson continuing to slide is not surprising.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[hockeywiz542]

Monday with Mitchell: Trade deadline primer - TSN.ca

While unexpected names are traded each year, here’s a look at five areas the Jays could upgrade and some of the available talent at each spot.

Impact Starter

Top options: German Marquez, Rockies; Max Scherzer, Nationals; Jose Berrios, Twins; Luis Castillo, Reds; Sonny Gray, Reds

Lower-end help: Kyle Hendricks, Cubs; Michael Pineda, Twins; Kenta Maeda, Twins; Kyle Gibson, Rangers; Jon Gray, Rockies; Mike Minor, Royals

This is where the Jays could toe the line between adding for this year and looking to 2022, as well, with Marquez, Berrios, Castillo, Gray and Hendricks all at least under contract for next year.

They could also look to do what they did last year — add a reclamation project type like a Ray or a Stripling and at least give pitching coach Pete Walker another starter to work with. Scherzer is the big fish with the playoff pedigree that every contender will be after if he’s on the market.

Bullpen

Top options: Craig Kimbrel, Cubs; Richard Rodriguez, Pirates; Raisel Iglesias, Angels; Taylor Rogers, Twins; Ian Kennedy, Rangers; Brad Hand, Nationals

Lower-end help: Yimi Garcia, Marlins; Tanner Scott, Orioles; Daniel Hudson, Nationals; Greg Holland, Royals; Daniel Bard, Rockies; Mychal Givens, Rockies

It seems to be the obvious area of need for the Jays, so all of the names in the top group are easy fits.

These types of bullpen arms tend to cost a lot in the hours leading up to the deadline and this Jays front office regime has up to this point shown a tendency to troll for more under-the-radar relief help.

If they pay the price for a top closer, they’ll likely be adding elsewhere, too, and making a push.

Third Base

Top options: Jose Ramirez, Cleveland; Kris Bryant, Cubs; Eduardo Escobar, Diamondbacks

Lower-end help: Jorge Polanco, Twins

The easiest spot to upgrade in the lineup, which would push Cavan Biggio to a super-utility role, Bryant is easily the top rental and will cost a lot.

If Cleveland truly puts Ramirez on the market, there’s a relationship there with both the player and the Ohio front office that could lead to conversations.

Escobar, a free agent this winter and a switch-hitter to boot, is an intriguing fit and the price might be reasonable.

Veteran Catcher

Top options: Yadier Molina, Cardinals; Willson Contreras, Cubs

Lower-end help: Tucker Barnhart, Reds; Roberto Perez, Cleveland; Yan Gomes, Nationals; Robinson Chirinos, Cubs

With Danny Jansen sidelined for a significant stretch by another hamstring injury, the front office has to ask itself whether it’s comfortable with Alejandro Kirk and Reese McGuire behind the dish.

The Cardinals sit right at .500, but the ageless Molina would be a fun rental to add to this young Jays clubhouse.

More realistically, a capable veteran defensive catcher with a touch more offensive upside than McGuire or Jansen is likely the thought process.

Left-Handed Bats

Top options: OF Joey Gallo, Rangers; OF Kyle Schwarber, Nationals

Lower-end help: OF Ian Happ, Cubs; 1B Carlos Santana, Royals; OF Kole Calhoun, Diamondbacks

The Jays don’t need an outfielder, but moving one in a trade — Randal Grichuk or Lourdes Gurriel Jr. are the candidates — would allow them to shift some things around if they wanted to add Gallo in a blockbuster.

A left-handed bat is on the shopping list, and one who could play multiple positions like Happ would be ideal.

 

[Woodman19]

I feel like we have played ourselves out of being a big player and should only look for opportunistic value buys with players with control beyond this year.

 

[BlueForever75]

The Red Sox series starting today will play a part on how the next couple of days play out. Win 3 of 4, or possibly sweep and they are not that far out.

They were further out in 2015 when they made the Price and Tulo deals if I remember correctly. Record was 53-51 and trades gave team the boost and confidence that had them get into the playoffs and they went on a run.

 

[dredeye]

I feel like we have played ourselves out of being a big player and should only look for opportunistic value buys with players with control beyond this year.

Agreed. Anyone on an expiring contract is a waste of assets at this point.

 

[ryno23]

I wonder if my 2 fav teams Cubs and Jays can swing a deal. Cubs need to retool and Jays need help this year

Cubs
Craig Kimbrel - closer with an extra year of control
Kris Bryant - solidifies 3B for the rest of the season
Wilson Contreras - Catcher under control for 1 more year
Ian Happ - Switch-hitting OF who also plays 2B under control arb 2 next year balances righty lefty vs RHP

Jays
Lourdes Gurriel Jr - give something to get something.
Craig Biggio - versatile player the Cubs plug in various spots on the diamond
Nate Pearson might need to sell high before injuries limits him to a closer ala Osuna
Another prospect like Hilrado, Van Eyk

 

[TGB]

Apparently not. Unless you know your argument was so brutal that you had to accuse Nem of using his moderator status to prevent you from giving a proper response as your only defence. It’s quite sad. It’s ok to be wrong sometimes. Knowing you’re right is not a rebuttal

Whatever, champ. It's the truth. My quick link to this website is actually from a point in 2019, even though I've been around longer than that (about the first year of the Leafs rebuild).

And it's not him specifically, but he's aware of it and told me he's watching. And I've already been vindicated, and the games continue to support everything I said, plus Nemesis didn't actually address my points, so I don't need to mount a "defense". The fact is, I just don't care that much.
And I'm not too keen on addressing someone who starts an angry rant with a bunch of false and vastly hyped up accusations anyway. It's actually kind of sad he went through all that trouble over what is essentially a minor observation. I didn't exactly create a power point presentation or anything. The truth of the matter here is everything that has happened here these last few days is the result of everyone's favourite player receiving a bit of criticism and his fans getting upset. I even tried to drop it, but you guys kept piling on. Heck, I've been part of numerous communities for 20 + years without ever being modded once. Here? I get my first ever by criticizing Vlad. Now THAT is sad.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned at this point, you guys are resorting to lies and distorted observations to attack me just because you don't like me. Whatever, I've been right way, WAY too many times in the past to care (I mean, you guys were all going on about how Vlad would show up on day 1 hitting everything even though it was blatantly obvious he would start off slow), and I've already proven myself here. And these arguments are sapping my enjoyment of watching the games. Maybe one day I'll find a baseball forum with mature people inhabiting it.

But I'll continue to be around. Oh, yes. Always watching...because you guys are very quick to post news updates.

 

[dredeye]

I wonder if my 2 fav teams Cubs and Jays can swing a deal. Cubs need to retool and Jays need help this year

Cubs
Craig Kimbrel - closer with an extra year of control
Kris Bryant - solidifies 3B for the rest of the season
Wilson Contreras - Catcher under control for 1 more year
Ian Happ - Switch-hitting OF who also plays 2B under control arb 2 next year balances righty lefty vs RHP

Jays
Lourdes Gurriel Jr - give something to get something.
Craig Biggio - versatile player the Cubs plug in various spots on the diamond
Nate Pearson might need to sell high before injuries limits him to a closer ala Osuna
Another prospect like Hilrado, Van Eyk

That’s a huge overpay by us. No thanks

 

[Gargyn]

Whatever, champ. It's the truth. My quick link to this website is actually from a point in 2019, even though I've been around longer than that (about the first year of the Leafs rebuild).

And it's not him specifically, but he's aware of it and told me he's watching. And I've already been vindicated, and the games continue to support everything I said, plus Nemesis didn't actually address my points, so I don't need to mount a "defense". The fact is, I just don't care that much.
And I'm not too keen on addressing someone who starts an angry rant with a bunch of false and vastly hyped up accusations anyway. It's actually kind of sad he went through all that trouble over what is essentially a minor observation. I didn't exactly create a power point presentation or anything. The truth of the matter here is everything that has happened here these last few days is the result of everyone's favourite player receiving a bit of criticism and his fans getting upset. I even tried to drop it, but you guys kept piling on. Heck, I've been part of numerous communities for 20 + years without ever being modded once. Here? I get my first ever by criticizing Vlad. Now THAT is sad.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned at this point, you guys are resorting to lies and distorted observations to attack me just because you don't like me. Whatever, I've been right way, WAY too many times in the past to care (I mean, you guys were all going on about how Vlad would show up on day 1 hitting everything even though it was blatantly obvious he would start off slow), and I've already proven myself here. And these arguments are sapping my enjoyment of watching the games. Maybe one day I'll find a baseball forum with mature people inhabiting it.

But I'll continue to be around. Oh, yes. Always watching...because you guys are very quick to post news updates.

Just use the ignore button lots. You can’t bring up anything negative blue Jays or they jump on you and even ban you for the dumbest reasons. Just ignore. I too come here to check in on rumours but if you don’t agree with the consensus they take away all your privileges.

 

[Eyedea]

I wonder if my 2 fav teams Cubs and Jays can swing a deal. Cubs need to retool and Jays need help this year

Cubs
Craig Kimbrel - closer with an extra year of control
Kris Bryant - solidifies 3B for the rest of the season
Wilson Contreras - Catcher under control for 1 more year
Ian Happ - Switch-hitting OF who also plays 2B under control arb 2 next year balances righty lefty vs RHP

Jays
Lourdes Gurriel Jr - give something to get something.
Craig Biggio - versatile player the Cubs plug in various spots on the diamond
Nate Pearson might need to sell high before injuries limits him to a closer ala Osuna
Another prospect like Hilrado, Van Eyk

I'd much rather have Biggio than Happ, and Contreras isn't needed. Selling low on Gurriel, and sacrificing a ton of control. This is too shortsighted of a deal for the Jays to make.

 

[Morgs]

In no world does a team trade their above average MLB players & MLB ready prospects with control for slightly better players with virtually no control.

 

[ryno23]

That’s a huge overpay by us. No thanks

Not sure if it's a huge overpay. Might be a little overpay.

Kimbrel solidifies the bullpen and also keeps him away from Bos or other Al rivals or the WC like Oak plus has a year of control
Bryant is better than anything the Jays are trotting out at 3B these days
Contreras is better than Kirk, Jansen, and Mcguire if you rolled them all into 1 catcher. Has another year of control
Happ is having a down year but a versatile guy who can play all 3 OF spots and 2B. a few years of ARB

Ok take out Gurriel and replace him with Grichuck but then add to the prospect capital going the other way for taking on Grichucks contract.

You are right the Jays won't do a deal like this or even a deal fo Kimbrel as they won't part with high ceiling prospects and rather hoard them and just recycle bullpen pieces each year hoping one becomes good as they waste MVP years of Vlad and 1 year deal for Ray and Semien.

The deal is almost a carbon copy deal of the Tulo deal where the Jays gave up Reyes (proven player aka Gurriel) but got back a better player that helped them win a division title.

 

[Morgs]

Contreras - 2.1 fWAR in 350 PA / 3.9 in 650 PA
McGuire - 0.7 fWAR in 132 PA / 3.5 in 650 PA

And he's arguably our 3rd best catcher (not including Moreno).

 

[ryno23]

I'd much rather have Biggio than Happ, and Contreras isn't needed. Selling low on Gurriel, and sacrificing a ton of control. This is too shortsighted of a deal for the Jays to make.

Control is great when you are rebuilding but control doesn't win you ball games. Sure you have control of Gurriel and Biggio but you are also trotting out Dolis, Thornton among the other garbage bullpen pieces. Trotting Biggio and Espinal at 3B is a playoff-caliber position? Trotting out Whack Off and Kirk as your catcher is a position worthy of a deep postseason run?

At some point, player control needs to go out the window and you got a take shot. Kimbrel, Contreras and Happ all have at least 2 playoff runs in them based on their current contracts. Bryant is the only rental.

I thought the same thing when the Cubs were dealing Gleybor Torres, Billy Mckinney for Chapman. I know Cubs fans weren't talking about team control nope they needed a closer. Club control doesn't mean crap when you got a good club and need to fill huge holes.

I can tell you most Cubs fans don't really care of Torres as they look back at the 2016 World Series video and say boy I wish we had Torres under club control still.

 

[Tony Romo]

What would Morenos ETA be for MLB?