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Blue Jays Discussion: Back in Toronto AND things are happening (trade deadline @ 4pm ET/1pm PT today)

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ryno23 said:
here we go HF scouts already making excuses for a poor trade. Oh, this guy said SWR and Martin weren't highly rated by some guy who runs a website and doesn't have any connections to a MLB Front Office.

I am sure Thad Levine ran it by these guys at BA Authors to make sure he got the right info on the prospects vs talking to his scouts and using their own internal scouting reports for each player during their draft year especially Martin a recent draft pick.

Not a GM alive reads the prospect websites and says wait BA ranked him at 14 so I better take him vs that guy ranked at 16 cause these journalists really know their scouting stuff.

It's a bad trade plain and simple. You will start to hear all the faults about these 2 players the Jays traded so people can feel better about getting hosed. Good teams don't get hosed on these types of deals.

Oh, don't forget Berrios pitched in the AL Central so he got to face the Tigers, Royals who are crap, and White Sox who before this year were not that great. Indians were really the only group that was good.

Now he has to face Boston, NYY and TB who always beat up Jays pitchers. Bal is the only easy team he will face.
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The consensus here seems to be, an overpayment by the Jays but Martin and SWR, especially SWR has been dropping the prospect ratings. His velo has been down and his control awful.
 
metafour said:
You understand that other teams send scouts all across the minors to look at opposing teams players for this very reason, right? SWR is down period: supposedly more 90-92 this year and he's suddenly lost his control which was his best tool. He was never a huge "stuff" guy, so a decrease in velocity - if permanent - changes his outlook entirely.
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So if the control was just a rough patch then what? Guys lose their control all the time see Tyler Chatwood LOL.

Your right scouts went all over MILB this year and Levine said you will give us Martin and SWR for 1.5 years of Berrios? I think Berrios was already in a car being driven to the airport by Levine himself lol
 
SDig14 said:


More confirmation.

Why do I get the feeling they get Gomes and trade Kirk for Rodriguez?
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While I do believe that they are after Gomes and I would love that addition, this doesn't exactly give me hope since its Morosi 'confirming' a Nightengale report. Maybe this is one of those scenarios where two negatives make a positive? ...maybe?
 
While I disagree with basically everything else in that post, Berrios has been lit up by all three big AL East teams...1-9 with a 5.80 ERA in 71 IP
 
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ryno23 said:
here we go HF scouts already making excuses for a poor trade. Oh, this guy said SWR and Martin weren't highly rated by some guy who runs a website and doesn't have any connections to a MLB Front Office.

I am sure Thad Levine ran it by these guys at BA Authors to make sure he got the right info on the prospects vs talking to his scouts and using their own internal scouting reports for each player during their draft year especially Martin a recent draft pick.

Not a GM alive reads the prospect websites and says wait BA ranked him at 14 so I better take him vs that guy ranked at 16 cause these journalists really know their scouting stuff.

It's a bad trade plain and simple. You will start to hear all the faults about these 2 players the Jays traded so people can feel better about getting hosed. Good teams don't get hosed on these types of deals.

Oh, don't forget Berrios pitched in the AL Central so he got to face the Tigers, Royals who are crap, and White Sox who before this year were not that great. Indians were really the only group that was good.

Now he has to face Boston, NYY and TB who always beat up Jays pitchers. Bal is the only easy team he will face.
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And in what world outside of prospect rankings are Martin and SWR prospect Hall of Famers?
Cuz it sure ain’t with their on-field play this season…
 
paul pearce said:
Agreed. Funny thing is we don't need him to be that starter anymore. He can be the most dominant relief pitcher in baseball. Or closer similar to Chapman. I feel with berrios Ryu ray manaoah stripling we have the 2nd best starters next to San Diego now
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Dodgers have a kind of OK pitching staff ... ;)
 
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weems said:
It would be amazing for Pearson to figure it out as a SP.

A rotation of Ryu, Berrios, Ray, Manoah, Pearson is very good.

That's the best rotation we've had in as long as I can remember.
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World series vibes. Even with Pearson in bullpen an stripling putting it together. I wouldn't touch the offense. I hope we don't dumpster dive on the nationals like so many others
 
It feels like a lot initially but ultimately I think that if I'm just some guy sitting here on the computer and I can see that Martin's got like a .380 BABIP in AA (and I saw that tweet about the 14 HBP), zero power, and doesn't really have a future at shortstop or the arm for 3B, it's probably likely that the shine's come off him around the league too. If Martin's a guy that's seen as a more of a 50-100 range prospect (which appears to be the case) around the league, this is probably a good example of selling high.

I definitely still have some sticker shock relative to other trades in recent days, but I don't really think this is some dramatic overpay worth freaking out about. By now we've all seen the Martin downgrade to 50FV at Fangraphs, at the end of the day he was a high floor prospect with concerns about his lack of power and that hasn't got any better since the draft, and he doesn't really seem like a shortstop long term either. He's got a great raw hit tool but I'm not sure the ceiling is super high so I don't think we're going to end up feeling burnt on this. SWR has been closer to 90-92 in the minors which is really concerning for his long term viability, TINSTAAP baby.

Also think Berrios is getting a bit undervalued too, he's a top 25 starter in baseball. Calling him a #3 starter is dishonest given the only reason he's a #3 is because we have two other great starters right now. In terms of overall value he's fairly similar to Stroman so I get it's frustrating to pay more for a player of a similar value, but to the Jays he might have more value given age (extending Stroman was dicey at the time) and the fact he's a strikeout guy that misses bats which is something the Jays clearly value for everyone but Ryu. Also really like the knock-on effect that this basically solidifies the Ryu/Ray/Berrios/Manoah top 4 + one of Stripling/Matz and then you've got Pearson joining the bullpen with Cimber/Pearson/Richards/Romano as the high leverage guys.
 
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Bjindaho said:
Sure...

Because it's not like there haven't been reports on Sportsnet about the Jays concerns with both of these kids. And trading them while keeping guys who are raking doesn't suggest that maybe we value the other kids more.
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You mean the TV station that owns the team? Devaluing the prospect so when they get dealt the fanbase doesn't go bonkers.
 
Bluelines said:
Good pitching dominates good hitting... I don't think we have the pen to get to the playoffs.
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They likely aren't done adding to the bullpen. The relief market should explode very shortly right before the deadline as there are lots of names to move in a little time frame. Also, the impact that Pearson can have in the pen shouldn't be understated. Just look at what he did in the Wild Card series last year. He is like 2015 Aaron Sanchez on steroids out of the bullpen.
 
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ryno23 said:
You mean the TV station that owns the team? Devaluing the prospect so when they get dealt the fanbase doesn't go bonkers.
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Why would they talk about concerns two weeks ago if they weren't valid concerns? No rational organization sets out with the mindset that certain prospects are going to be moved unless they either have a deal in place already (which they clearly didn't) or they are getting virtually zero value for them.
 
Hendriks/Kimbrel in the 8th and 9th. I can't lie I am excited about that as a baseball fan. Both of them are absolutely dominant and I love watching them pitch.
 
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