Babcock resigning as CBJ Head Coach *Mod note, post #687*

[Caroline Says ll]

Bec

I'm not saying he was "wronged." But on the other hand, you had guys saying that it wasn't a big deal. Some guys weren't comfortable.

Obviously Babcock has made a few enemies. That doesn't mean that the facts of this situation add up to bullying, stealing a phone, invading privacy, representing the toxicity of hockey culture, or embodying evil.

Seems to be a situation that's far more clumsy than malicious. Yet he has plenty of money and so forth, a gold medal, memories of winning the Cup with guys who showed a lot more resilience than these Blue Jackets guys who ended his career have

Yeah but Babcock doesn't treat all players the same. That has been his M.O. his entire coaching career. He kept telling Tony Martensson he was too short to play in the NHL and made him change in the shower- not in the dressing room. He was 6 ft tall.

He treated some veterans like garbage and others like sons. Some youth he refused to play, while others he would play 5 d rather than play them when injuries occured. He has never been consistent in what he wants from players.

So why is everyone to believe the way he asked for phones was the exact same? He deserves no benefit of doubt.

 

[LOFIN]

The STAGGERING amount of people who read the initial statement from the organization and said "well that's that, nothing to see here!" should have to give up their voting rights lol

Literally a toddler level media literacy

I mean the Bill Daly said the NHLPA also considered the case shut at that time. It was only in the days after that the NHLPA re-opened their investigation.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Bec


Yeah but Babcock doesn't treat all players the same. That has been his M.O. his entire coaching career. He kept telling Tony Martensson he was too short to play in the NHL and made him change in the shower- not in the dressing room. He was 6 ft tall.

He treated some veterans like garbage and others like sons. Some youth he refused to play, while others he would play 5 d rather than play them when injuries occured. He has never been consistent in what he wants from players.

So why is everyone to believe the way he asked for phones was the exact same? He deserves no benefit of doubt.

I've never heard of a coach that treats all their players the same. They all have favorites and whipping boys.

 

[HTFN]

Why?


And if Jarmo didn't like a players deployment he would fire Babcock.

Okay, keep following this train of thought because you're actually very close...

That GM just hired Babcock. If you're a player do you think they're more likely to argue with each other for you or present a united front and tell you to do what the coach says? Worse, what if it's definitely unfair treatment but the team is winning anyway? Lol especially when the GM apparently got talked into doing it himself.

Now we're talking about the power dynamic and why "saying no" isn't easy. Something tells me the only people who don't understand that in this thread are the people who do it to other people and think there's nothing wrong with it, that they've just got amazing personality or something.

 

[Caroline Says ll]

I've never heard of a coach that treats all their players the same. They all have favorites and whipping boys.

Yeah but I mean outside of how they play them. Why did he remain insistent on scratching Chelios for the Chicago Detroit outdoor game? Why did he scratch Modano on all the final opportunities for 1500? Why did he scratch Spezza for the home opener after he had bought all the tickets?

There is favourites and whipping boys, but everything Babcock has done has always been targetting and vindictive.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Yeah but I mean outside of how they play them. Why did he remain insistent on scratching Chelios for the Chicago Detroit outdoor game? Why did he scratch Modano on all the final opportunities for 1500? Why did he scratch Spezza for the home opener after he had bought all the tickets?

There is favourites and whipping boys, but everything Babcock has done has always been targetting and vindictive.

I'm sure it's worse with some coaches than others.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

I've never heard of a coach that treats all their players the same. They all have favorites and whipping boys.

Not even a kindergarten teacher is immune from this. Pro sports are generally considered a meritocracy with the goal being "to win a lot of hockey games." But if Mike Babcock plays Nick Lidstrom more than Derek Meech, it's called "mind games."

 

[Guttersniped]

How do you hire this guy?

"The phone thing." Does that mean he asked to see pictures of his kids, or took control of it to snoop through? That's as vague a comment as can be given the situation.

Jarmo said this at the beginning when the cover story was Babcock likes to exchange pictures with everyone new he meets in business.

From the Sept 12 Athletic article (a lifetime ago):

In a subsequent, brief conversation with The Athletic, Babcock portrayed the exchange of pictures as an innocent project to get to know each other better before the season. He emphatically denied that players were forced to share all of their pictures with him. He said they were allowed to choose the pictures that were shared.

“(Bissonnette’s version) couldn’t be anything further from the truth,” Babcock told The Athletic. “They sit in my office, their phone in their hand, and they scroll through.”

Asked directly if they shared only the pictures they chose to share, Babcock replied, “100 percent.”

“I met with Boone first because he’s the captain,” Babcock said. “He showed me things about his home, his farm… He was about to get married, so (pictures of) his fiancee, too. It was a great conversation we had, a real good meeting. To think it was any other way is a huge mistake.

“This is me trying to get to know them and them getting know me. When I met with the Blue Jackets (to interview for the job), I introduced my family the same way. I think it’s important for them to get to know me. I’m not checking up on anybody. The season hasn’t even started.”

Jenner issued a statement through the club that read: “While meeting with Babs, he asked me about my family and where I’m from, my upcoming wedding and hockey-related stuff. He then asked if I had pictures of my family and I was happy to share some with him. He showed me pictures of his family.

“I thought it was a great first meeting and good way for us to start to build a relationship. To have this blown out of proportion is truly disappointing.”

Jenner, in a brief conversation with The Athletic, said it was up to him to decide which pictures to share.

Blue Jackets general manager Jarmo Kekalainen declined to make a statement, but said he also was asked to share family pictures with Babcock as part of an early meeting.

LINK

Of course he’s not going to be an asshole to his GM.

 

[thefutures]

Even tho Biz broke the story Whitney is going to be insufferable for weeks now. Biz is at least a little humble.

I am presuming the story is bigger than just phone pictures. Otherwise seems a bit much for a guy to resign over.

People talked a lot of shit about them for no reason now in hindsight, so yeah don't blame then one bit for being right about the situation and dunking on dummies that thought they just wanted attention

 

[Caroline Says ll]

I'm sure it's worse with some coaches than others.

I think Babcock is the worse. That is why you have all the different players who are openly negative about him. You do not hear many players talking about coaches in the media. Yet you have a vast pool of veterans, youth, journeyman, and fringe NHLers all speaking about him.

I think most NHLers have experience tough love and being a whipping boy throughout their rise in hockey. What Babcock has provided to them is something different.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Yeah but I mean outside of how they play them. Why did he remain insistent on scratching Chelios for the Chicago Detroit outdoor game? Why did he scratch Modano on all the final opportunities for 1500? Why did he scratch Spezza for the home opener after he had bought all the tickets?

There is favourites and whipping boys, but everything Babcock has done has always been targetting and vindictive.

It would extend down to the farm team as well. Babcock would bitch and moan to no end about how he didn’t have enough big RHDs to the point that he deliberately sabotaged Barrie by not allowing him to skate past the blue line with the puck. Meanwhile 6’3 defensive RHD Holl is overcooking in the minors but he got on Babs bad side so he never got to even play regular #7 minutes while Babs would run a short D group, 5/6 LHDs, or any other combination of insane tactics instead of just doing the obvious thing and giving your in-house 6’3 RHD a shot.

He talks about how important it is for players to put the team first but his personal vendettas are several tiers higher priority than the team winning even if it forces him to play bat shit insane looking lineups.

 

[ORRFForever]

So why is everyone to believe the way he asked for phones was the exact same? He deserves no benefit of doubt.

^^ That's fair. ^^

He's been fired and humiliated so there is some justice. Having said that, if you want to give me a million dollar parachute, you can fire and humiliate me, too.

Re : "Babcock doesn't treat all players the same. "

EVERY boss plays favourites. That's life.

 

[Peasy]

Does anyone have any idea or any real reports on how he performed with Saskatchewan? When he was coaching the university?

 

[Jared Dunn]

Sure it did. Just hope more details (from reputable sources) come out in the next while.



Oh man this is perfect

Hes going to take credit Because he "started" Spitting Chiclets, just watch.

I'm not a big fan of the podcast anymore because I just find they often just come off as overgrown man-children, but if the implication here is that they're not reputable I think it's time to put that take to bed. They're almost certainly the media outlet better connected with the actual players than anyone else covering hockey. In fact I think this proves that having them as an outlet is a good thing for the players, because as we saw with Chicago hockey media is spineless and won't report on the gnarly shit for fear of losing connections

 

[joestevens29]

Yeah but I mean outside of how they play them. Why did he remain insistent on scratching Chelios for the Chicago Detroit outdoor game? Why did he scratch Modano on all the final opportunities for 1500? Why did he scratch Spezza for the home opener after he had bought all the tickets?

There is favourites and whipping boys, but everything Babcock has done has always been targetting and vindictive.

Didn't Chelios end up being dressed last minute and was drinking on the bench? When he was told he was up Chelios told him no, lol.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

I'm not saying he was "wronged." But on the other hand, you had guys saying that it wasn't a big deal. Some guys weren't comfortable.

Obviously Babcock has made a few enemies. That doesn't mean that the facts of this situation add up to bullying, stealing a phone, invading privacy, representing the toxicity of hockey culture, or embodying evil.

Seems to be a situation that's far more clumsy than malicious. Yet he has plenty of money and so forth, a gold medal, memories of winning the Cup with guys who showed a lot more resilience than these Blue Jackets guys who ended his career have.

Do Chelios and Franzen count as resilient?

 

[joestevens29]

I'm not a big fan of the podcast anymore because I just find they often just come off as overgrown man-children, but if the implication here is that they're not reputable I think it's time to put that take to bed. They're almost certainly the media outlet better connected with the actual players than anyone else covering hockey. In fact I think this proves that having them as an outlet is a good thing for the players, because as we saw with Chicago hockey media is spineless and won't report on the gnarly shit for fear of losing connections

They are still the most popular hockey podcast around and they do get a ton of ex and current players and coaches on their show.

So they definitely have connections.

Biz also isn't going to make shit up. He has too much to lose. This isn't a guy that made 10's of millions of dollars in his playing day. He's probably doing better now than he did in his playing career, so to start making shit up and risk that I don't see it.

Also most media is spineless until somebody is fired. Can't wait to see the media in Edmonton when our CFL manager/coach/coordinator gets turfed. I assume it'll be a blood bath

 

[Jared Dunn]

They are still the most popular hockey podcast around and they do get a ton of ex and current players and coaches on their show.

So they definitely have connections.

Biz also isn't going to make shit up. He has too much to lose. This isn't a guy that made 10's of millions of dollars in his playing day. He's probably doing better now than he did in his playing career, so to start making shit up and risk that I don't see it.

No doubt, and he's safe on Spittin Chiclets forever but something like this would seriously put his TNT gig in jeopardy if he wasn't confident about it

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

."

That doesn't sound just terrible to anyone else? What kind of a culture do we have?

The kind where people tend to get fired if they cause a shitstorm on the first week of their job.

 

[joestevens29]

No doubt, and he's safe on Spittin Chiclets forever but something like this would seriously put his TNT gig in jeopardy if he wasn't confident about it

He's safe on Spittin Chiclets right now, but he starts making shit up they will slowly lose people willing to go on the show.

The funny thing is I bet they are becoming more popular because of this. How many casual fans that never listened before are tuning in to see who these guys are?

 

[Voight]

I'm not a big fan of the podcast anymore because I just find they often just come off as overgrown man-children, but if the implication here is that they're not reputable I think it's time to put that take to bed. They're almost certainly the media outlet better connected with the actual players than anyone else covering hockey. In fact I think this proves that having them as an outlet is a good thing for the players, because as we saw with Chicago hockey media is spineless and won't report on the gnarly shit for fear of losing connections

I'm not saying they arent reputable. I'm someone who listens to the pod (well, only the interviews TBH).

What I'm saying is a reputable source hopefully comes out with more details about the exact specifics and why he was fired.

 

[Guttersniped]

I'm not saying he was "wronged." But on the other hand, you had guys saying that it wasn't a big deal. Some guys weren't comfortable.

Obviously Babcock has made a few enemies. That doesn't mean that the facts of this situation add up to bullying, stealing a phone, invading privacy, representing the toxicity of hockey culture, or embodying evil.

Seems to be a situation that's far more clumsy than malicious. Yet he has plenty of money and so forth, a gold medal, memories of winning the Cup with guys who showed a lot more resilience than these Blue Jackets guys who ended his career have.

Hockey culture has a huge code of silence issue where abuse never gets talked about because teen boys and young men are supposed to be tough, unthinkingly loyal, and just shut up and take it.

Young kids in hockey learn “nothing leaves the room”; which is how some really horrific hazing has happened for decades.

So f*** your “resilience”, which is just a way to shame players about believing that them being abused by coaches is wrong and matters.

Babcock is something of an exception and an effort should be made to prevent more coaches from doing what he did to Franzen.

Chris Chelios said what Babcock did to Franzen in 2012 was the worst thing he ever saw. Chelios played in the NHL for 26 years and he’s had over a dozen different NHL head coaches, he’s likely a better judge of Babcock.

Babcock doesn’t have “enemies”, he has a poor professional reputation among players because of how he’s treated players in the past.

That’s how professional reputations work.

 

[joestevens29]

I'm not saying they arent reputable. I'm someone who listens to the pod (well, only the interviews TBH).

What I'm saying is a reputable source hopefully comes out with more details about the exact specifics and why he was fired.

I think the reputable source is probably going to be them when it comes to more information.

I don't foresee many phoning up Eliotte Friedman to discuss what happened. And I don't see many answering questions the way they would to the Spittin Chicklets crew.

Players just seem more comfortable with those guys than your standard media that never played the game before.

 

[Caroline Says ll]

Didn't Chelios end up being dressed last minute and was drinking on the bench? When he was told he was up Chelios told him no, lol.

From what I recall it took 3 days of Holland and Nill convincing Babcock to play him for his home town game, and then dresses 7 D for the first time all season, played him for the puck drop and benched him for the rest of the game.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Didn't Chelios end up being dressed last minute and was drinking on the bench? When he was told he was up Chelios told him no, lol.

GM made him play Chelly, against Babcock wishes.
He played one early shift, then Babs sat him the rest of game, wanted to give him a second shift near end of game, and Chelios told him to stuff it basically.